Deal gone bad, need advice please

Deal gone bad, need advice please

New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 4 votes

Hi,

I came into contact with an Atlanta rehab/investor named Andy on BP in Feb or Mar of this year (2014). He had a house for sale in Altanta that needed some major rehab work (about $15k). The house was not in a great neighborhood but was on an owner-occupied block, near bus stop, train, and some new construction so seems to be in a neighborhood that is improving. 

I bought the house for $20,781 which included $8000 financed by the seller and a payoff of all outstanding tax liens and other liens for water bill etc on the house for about $8000.

Prior to the sale, Andy was very easy to reach - we had many phone conversations about the planned rehab and future sale of the house. We signed a JV that he'd rehab the house, take videos, keep good records, etc.

The sale closed on 3/27/14. Since that time Andy has responded only a few times to attempted communications. I would say that in the 5+ since close he has responded perhaps 3 or 4 times to my many texts and emails and phone calls (which always go to voicemail). He told me over the 5 and a half months that he's busy (obviously since as soon as I bought the house the long friendly conversations came to a screeching halt). He told me that the city inspector wants electrical re-wired to the curb and he has 2 bids to do it for $4k and $7k but the $4k electrician isn't available. Other than that I know nothing about the house other than its' address and a video of it made in perhaps Jan 2014.

Andy has the keys to the house. I asked him about insurance and he said "we have insurance" but when I asked him later who the insurance is with he hasn't responded - similar to almost every other attempt at communication with him.

I know that a property tax bill will be upcoming on the house for about $1200 in November. I also took a HELOC against my primary residence to buy the house and I'm paying interest on that to the tune of about $100 per month. So my total carrying costs are $200 per month. I'm worried about insurance on the house since at this point it's hard to trust that Andy has done anything about that even though he said he took care of it. And thinking about it now it doesn't make sense to me that he'd carry insurance on my place anyway.

I called a real estate agent in Atlanta who was familiar with the house (listed it in previously) and that agent felt that the house is in a neighborhood that is improving and in demand, and that the house could be rented out after decent rehab for about $800 - $900 per month or be sold pretty easily after rehab since there is good demand by buyers in that neighborhood.

I'm live in Denver so now that my partner on this deal, the seller Andy, has been basically unavailable for 5+ months I'm not sure how to proceed. I sent a text and email to him asking for the keys to the house but like every other attempt at communication I'm sure he'll ignore it. I do have the deed to the house.

What steps should I take? I've no idea how to get the keys to the house or any control over the property. If I'm able to actually get the keys then I could try to rehab the house and rent it using a property management company, or sell it without rehab. I feel quite lost without any eyes, ears, hands on the ground in Atlanta. It's still hard to believe that my JV partner who'd have long conversations with me before I sent money to buy the house and pay off the liens, has gone almost completely silent.

To do either a sale or a rehab-rent I need keys and to do rehab I'd need a trustworthy and reliable and honest general contractor to estimate rehab and do rehab in Atlanta I guess. I would have to pay off the $8000 to Andy in any case although without his response to any communication I'm not sure how to do that. He has never sent me a signed copy of our JV despite my requests (I signed and sent to him then silence began).

Advice?

Thanks

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Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y

@John Pruner I'm happy to help in any way including giving you unsolicited advice. :-) 

My plan would be:

1.  Reassess the deal.   What are the real costs of rehab, resell, rent, clean brake from Andy, etc.?  

2.  Review your options for exiting the deal.  Does it makes sense to rehab/sell, sell, rehab/rent?

3. Break up with your partner. I'd let him know you no longer can work with him. JV is off. Rekey the house. Offer to settle the $8k under a new JV where he gets the money at exit or down the road. Most likely, another investor is missing $8k.

4.  Pick a new path and, as we like to say, get 'er done.  

You seem to have a sense of calm (no panic).  First deals are hard for this very reason.  Shake it off and get this deal to exit.  Keep trying, because now you've almost graduated from level 1 of investing (Bad Contracts and Contractors). 

Rick

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  • Mike HurneyPro Member
    Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 542 votes
    11y

    @John Pruner I just reread these posts and it hit me!

    Why not send your exwife's attorney after him. S/he seems very capable;-)

    Hope things are working out, buddy!

    Mike

    PS wanna buy a bridge.... probably a good fit with your portfolio so far;-(

  • Investor · Valparaiso, FL · Member since 2014 · 374 posts · 76 votes
    11y

    Oh No @Mike Hurney you did not go there did you? I have to give it to @John Pruner for maning up and sharing his story with us. I am sure there are many more BP'ers out there who have done similar and are embarrassed to share with us.  

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @John Pruner Hoping that when you get the chance you can update this thread.  Has the Andy from BP that sold you the deal gotten back in touch with, and have you worked something out? Pretty sure you could get help with the property from other, perhaps more trustworthy, BP members if needed.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @NA Jones:

    Anyone else reading this type @Andy just to see who pops up?

    No? 

    Just me?

    Alrighty then :)

    You can only mention those with whom you are colleagues or who have already participated in the thread.  I doubt Andy will be showing up on this thread.:)

    There more than a couple of Andy's from Atlanta on BP.  Hopefully the OP will update us and let us know that it all got worked out. Think positive everyone!

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    Hey guys - this story is still being written and I'd rather not update the thread until I have an outcome to report. Thanks for your advice and concer, and I will certainly update the thread to tell you the outcome and my lessons learned as soon as I'm able to.

  • Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 577 posts · 203 votes
    11y

    Yes, @John Pruner  as @Karen Margrave  mentioned, TRUST but VERIFY.

    I would hire an attorney asap to get you out of this mess.  It will be an expensive lesson, but cut your losses and move on.  Remember this pain, if and when you decide to partner again. 

  • Investor · Marysville, WA · Member since 2014 · 146 posts · 62 votes
    11y

    @John Pruner .....poking you to remind you we're all rooting for you and curious how it turns out!

  • Investor · Marysville, WA · Member since 2014 · 146 posts · 62 votes
    11y

    @John Pruner any updates?????

  • Hartsdale, NY · Member since 2015 · 874 posts · 218 votes
    11y

    Can you get a Property Manager that is  reccomended and good?   You need to be proactive and move forward now.  Figure out what you need to do beginning with the lock smith.   You need someone on the ground for you in Atlanta.

    You need to talk to a lawyer in Atlanta.  

    Maybe you can invite someone in Atlanta to be yur partner and the PM and be your eyes and ears in Atlanta and do the General contracting with you on this house.  Some one of these ideas or a piece  of them will be  better then trying to ressurect this deal.  This man has gotten over on you and you have to get rid of him.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    Hi,

    Thanks for all the past help here. I was served an arrest citation by the city of Atlanta at my Denver home. They said that the property was unsecured (violation of section 19E) and overgrown yard (violation of section 25A). There is no way listed on the arrest citation to pay it nor is there any fine amount - just a summons to appear in court.

    After literally several hours of being put on hold then call-dropped trying to reach the municipal court in Atlanta I finally reached a human. She informed me that I will have to appear in court on June 24. This arrest citation cannot just be paid online to make it go away. She said perhaps I can hire a lawyer to appear for me but she's not sure. 

    I found a guy who I can pay to go by and mow it. But now I have to figure out what to do about this arrest citation.

    Has anyone heard of this happening? Do I literally have to book a plane ticket to Atlanta, rent a car and spend a night in a hotel to get this arrest citation resolved? Will I actually be jailed when I show up at court? Does anyone know a reasonably priced lawyer who I can call? My JV partner is supposedly a lawyer but I obviously can't trust him to show up in court for me on that day since he was the one who was supposed to keep the property mowed.

    Also if I want to sell the property does anyone know of a fix and flip investor who might want to take it on? Pls PM me privately if so. The property is not a bad property. A crowdfunder mentioned to me that it's a good location (his words: "that is not a bad area and it's improving by the day", and a real estate agent said the same. She said she knows a property manager who can easily get it rented for about $900 if I want to rent it after it's rehabbed, or she could easily get it sold because she gets many contacts from people who want to buy in that area or move into that area. If it were here in Denver I'd rehab it myself, but it's not - it's in Atlanta. This is a great cautionary tale about partnering with someone outside of your own city on a rehab....dangerous business. If this were in Denver I'd be able to control my own destiny....but in Atlanta I have very little control at all.

    Thanks

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @John Pruner I just sent you a PM.  Please feel free to write to the email in my signature if you prefer.  Thanks!  Kristine

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @David Begley and @Rick Baggenstoss Maybe you gentlemen can comment on the citation situation mentioned by John Pruner above. Is the City of Atlanta citing owners for code and abatement issues, and then actually escalating the citations to arrest warrants. Who do they serve when it's an REO owned by Bank of America?

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Pruner:

    My JV partner is supposedly a lawyer but I obviously can't trust him to show up in court for me on that day since he was the one who was supposed to keep the property mowed.

    John: I think you need to run from your "JV partner" and never look back. Andy L. went to law school 20 years ago in PA. That doesn't make him a lawyer nor mean he is licensed in GA. It doesn't mean he can help you in any way with your citations. I don't know why you are not holding him partly at fault for a deal gone very badly and call him out here on BP. No one should be working with him without an explanation about why your property is not up running as a rental, or been resold.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    Fulton county in Georgia has some wonky laws.

    I have heard before that on an eviction for instance they will not let a PM in court but an attorney on your behalf etc.

    I am not 100% sure but just what I have heard. It sounds like what they are saying is you have to appear to court with the summons in person. You need an attorney at this point. To rent a plane ticket, rent a hotel, food and lodging you might as well get an attorney and put the money there. If you do not know what you are doing and go to court you could land in deeper trouble. Sometimes the local attorney knows contacts or people that can get things fixed quicker. For 50 bucks someone might go drive by the property and see if it is open or what the deal is and take photos etc. to send to you.

    No legal advice given.  

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    Thanks Joel.

    If anyone knows of a decent and reasonably priced attorney that I can hire in Atlanta pls send the recommendation my way.

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 6 posts · 12 votes
    11y

    John,

    I am not a lawyer but I think you need to get one asap. My background is alittle in the real estate research area. From the fact you listed before. I know the following.

    1) The company you dealt with has been involved with the property since 2009.

    2) There is a "sale" recorded GSCCCA with the property after your date of purchase.

    3) The property is currently listed as active within the Atlanta MLS system (FMLS). Listed as being rehabbed in 2010.

    4) The was a public recording of NOTICE OF FORECLOSURE OF RIGHT TO REDEEM that was to expire the date after you closed.

    5) The company you are dealing with address is listed with a real estate litigation.

    If you need any more info please PM me or ask me to put the info out there other people can verify what I have found.

    Respectfully,

      A guy who used to live in atlanta.

    BK

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brent K.:

    John,

    I am not a lawyer but I think you need to get one asap. My background is alittle in the real estate research area. From the fact you listed before. I know the following.

    1) The company you dealt with has been involved with the property since 2009.

    2) There is a "sale" recorded GSCCCA with the property after your date of purchase.

    3) The property is currently listed as active within the Atlanta MLS system (FMLS). Listed as being rehabbed in 2010.

    4) The was a public recording of NOTICE OF FORECLOSURE OF RIGHT TO REDEEM that was to expire the date after you closed.

    5) The company you are dealing with address is listed with a real estate litigation.

    If you need any more info please PM me or ask me to put the info out there other people can verify what I have found.

    Respectfully,

      A guy who used to live in atlanta.

    BK

    I let John know some of this same information.  The property was sold to the John with some huge issues and by someone who has lots of RE problems with his own various LLCs and entities.  Lots of problems.  Lots of not straightforward dealings.  I'm not sure if John can recover his investment at this point.  If it weren't for the citations and summons from the city, it would be my suggestion to walk away.  

  • Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    Gosh,@John Pruner. I'm so sorry to hear that this has happened to you. It's truly difficult to invest out of state unless you have 1) a real estate agent on the ground whose opinion you really trust and have built a relationship with, and can count on to check out your properties for you,  2) have people unaffiliated with the deal who can check in on your place during the purchase and rehab process until it gets sold, or 3) have a partner you've received great recommendations on. My construction and investment companies have technology that allow our out-of-state and international investor partners to check out their properties online, in real-time, and view the status of their rehabs or check out their properties prior to purchase, but that's pretty rare. You've gotten some great advice here to deal with your legal troubles; if you ever choose to go the rehab/sell route, ABSOLUTELY do your due diligence and make sure there will be checks in place to make sure you're certain the rehab you're paying for is getting done properly and in a timely manner. I'll also PM you for details on the property front; my RE investment division may be interested in buying.

    And I agree wholeheartedly with K. Marie. Andy L., if that's who your JV partner was, should be held accountable and steered clear of, both on and off BP.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    Thanks for the advice here. Great stuff.

    There are some issues suffered by my JV partner. Personal serious illness, split up with his partner, several strokes suffered by that life partner. But everything has been tomorrow, not today with this JV.

    I'm a softie and I tend to trust people too easily but with this experience I will handle other investments much differently. This was my first ever investment and I've learned a ton - school of hard knocks enrolled me without me planning to enroll. :)

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    For those interested, here's the arrest citation that I was served with.

  • Investor · Hyattsville, MD · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 441 votes
    11y

    If you don't get any specific recommendations from BP, open up the phone book and start calling/ interviewing attorneys. Explain your situation and ask about their fee structure and how they might be able to help you. See if they can represent you in court for the summons in June and what they can do to make nothing appear on your record and pay as small a fine as possible. In other words, what is the best possible outcome they can get for you? interview a couple and determine which one you might want to choose represent you.

    http://www.yellowbook.com/s/attorneys/perimeter-ce...

    As was mentioned by others, it will be more prudent for you to have a attorney represent you in court than you flying down to appear if it is legal to do so.  They might be able to obtain a much better outcome than if you went yourself and you potentially avoid spending funds to fly down there vs. paying attorney for the court appearance. attorneys are about 200-500/ hour and their appearance fee should potentially be less than the cost for you to fly down for the weekend.

    I'd also be working now to secure the property and mow the lawn. maybe you can go on craigslist (atlanta) and find a handyman to secure the property for you, board up what is needed and install new locks. Chances are it needs to be boarded up and re-keyed amongst other things. make sure they take video and pictures for you so you can assess properly and make the best possible decision. The sooner you do this, the less vandalism damage will be done. If you dont fix this by the date of your summons, that could also create more problems for you in court.

    Do the same thing with finding a real estate agent to help you put it up for sale so you can exit from this disaster. You are in no position to be doing a rehab long distance and right now this is a liability for you. 

    It seems you've been having some problems taking action. Unfortunately no one will be holding your hand and you will need to tackle this yourself and take your own initiative. You just need to jump in and start finding the right attorney, handyman for short term fixes to resolve the summons, and real estate agent to help you sell  this as quickly as possible to relieve your burden from being responsible for the maintenance of this property. Your team is one person and unfortunately, you're gonna have to rely on yourself to get yourself out of this jam. I wish you the best of luck!

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    Good advice Jeff thanks. Every time I hit a crisis point I finally reach my oft-absent JV partner and he's enthused about his plan to remedy the situation. So I wait for the plan to unfold. Unfortunately tomorrow never comes on this one.

    The latest promise is that:

    - This week he'll have the property mowed, secured, and he'll quickly get the rehab done. - He'll send pics. 

    - He'll also take care of the court case by visiting the courthouse in the next week or so.

    - He'll pay the overdue sanitary fee lien from the city of Atlanta that were bought by a New Jersey lien company in the amount of $546. I was never billed for these fees in 2014 but I recently got a piece of mail from the city of Atlanta that they are overdue and that they have to be paid to this New Jersey company.

    I've already contacted a mowing service and am waiting to hear their price. I will search out a lawyer today.

    At this point I think I stand to lose about $48,000 if I get nothing from the property. $21,000 invested, $8000 2nd position lien to my JV partner, $18,000 rehab loan. On top of that I've got the $546 lien, and whatever it costs me to extricate myself from the court case. So all told I'm probably in $50k. I'm sure the house won't sell for that much.

    Do you think I should wait 1 week to see if these promises happen? If the JV partner would actually get on the job and get this done I might actually profit on the deal. Or go ahead and ask for the keys, put it on the market, board it up, mow it myself, and eat the expected $10-50k loss? I'm guessing your answer will be the latter....but waiting a week hoping that things finally turn around is tempting since I stand to lose so much here.

  • Herndon, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 324 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Pruner:

    At this point I think I stand to lose about $48,000 if I get nothing from the property. $21,000 invested, $8000 2nd position lien to my JV partner, $18,000 rehab loan. On top of that I've got the $546 lien, and whatever it costs me to extricate myself from the court case. So all told I'm probably in $50k. I'm sure the house won't sell for that much.

    Do you think I should wait 1 week to see if these promises happen? If the JV partner would actually get on the job and get this done I might actually profit on the deal. Or go ahead and ask for the keys, put it on the market, board it up, mow it myself, and eat the expected $10-50k loss? I'm guessing your answer will be the latter....but waiting a week hoping that things finally turn around is tempting since I stand to lose so much here.

    Do not wait on promises from someone who has repeatedly broken them.

    This is the route, I would recommend selling it as-is and trying to get something back.  Who has the money from the rehab loan?

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    The JV partner has the money from the rehab loan.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Pruner:

    At this point I think I stand to lose about $48,000 if I get nothing from the property. $21,000 invested, $8000 2nd position lien to my JV partner, $18,000 rehab loan. On top of that I've got the $546 lien, and whatever it costs me to extricate myself from the court case. So all told I'm probably in $50k. I'm sure the house won't sell for that much.

    Do you think I should wait 1 week to see if these promises happen? If the JV partner would actually get on the job and get this done I might actually profit on the deal. Or go ahead and ask for the keys, put it on the market, board it up, mow it myself, and eat the expected $10-50k loss? I'm guessing your answer will be the latter....but waiting a week hoping that things finally turn around is tempting since I stand to lose so much here.

    John: There is no "hope" in REI. If it were me, I'd stop the bleeding (and the co-dependence) immediately. It's going to be a year since you've closed on it and nobody has done anything. Even if your JV partner were the victim of horrible things or died, it's still your job to protect your investment.

    I'd put it on the market today. The goal is to get it sold for your loan amount plus costs. Get an agent to help you with value and get it listed for a price that will get it sold for the debt against the property. Your JV partner already made plenty off of you on his sale to you. There is no profit as I don't think it will sell for above the amount specified in the your JV agreement, so there is nothing to split at this point.

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