Taking a stand after a $50,000 lie

Taking a stand after a $50,000 lie

Investor 路 Peabody, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 114 posts 路 107 votes

I've never named a figure on how much $$ we spent on what people call 'GURU training' but I think it's time. The amount of money that is being made by these companies is mind blowing. 

I've read posts by others on BiggerPockets who have invested in this training and many are quick to judge them saying 'who signs a contract without reading the whole thing?' or 'weren't you suspicious of a, b & c?', etc. The answer is no. No we weren't suspicious because people who you think would have a lot to lose stand behind these companies. Pete and Dave from Flipping Boston, Tarek and Christina from Flip or Flop, Doug Hopkins and Damon Lines from Property Wars, Greg Herlean and Mike Baird from Flip Men. They all endorse this same company/program by Premium Financial Training, Success Path, Advanced Real Estate Training (these companies are all linked).

You think that it's not too good to be true because you are paying a large amount of money and that's the catch. The reason not everyone is doing it is because they can't afford it, right? Wrong.

Here's how they do it...

* They have people speak that know Donald Trump and show pictures of them shaking The Donald's hand or speaking at the same event. They'll tell you about all of their successful students and how the same guy that knows Donald Trump is tight with many of the students. He tells stories of the student's successes and how he's had many personal conversations with them.

* They say they'll send you to a bootcamp where an expert will take you to properties and go through from start to finish how to make money on it right.

* They tell you that you'll have a mentor that you will be very close too and they'll even come and spend 3 days to work personally with you.

* They mention you can network with other students and use their connections so that don't have to go through the work and expensive lessons learned to find your own Power Team. 

* You'll have everyone's email (including Dave and Pete) that are speaking at the conference to contact at anytime.

* They'll tell you that you can get all your money back if you aren't successful by giving you a money back guarantee that when you read the fine print is next to impossible to claim.  

I could go on but I won't bore you. It's a good strategy, I'm not gonna lie. Nice work to whoever thought of it. The only problem is that what they promise is not what they deliver. 

Here's what you actually get...

* At the bootcamp you get a teacher from another market who will give you advice on how to flip homes in Austin Texas even though you are sitting in Boston. She gives you reference sheets with pricing that is super low (not accurate) for building materials to use when calculating rehab costs. You learn that Hard Money is basically free up front and easy to get. Just pay the points at the end...no big deal. If they ask to check your credit or require that you give them money up front then walk away. What??? They take you to properties where the teacher stands there and talks only when asked a question. Basically if you or anyone else in the class doesn't ask the teacher the right question you don't get the information. 

* The 'mentor' you were supposed to have only exists for the 3 day period that they come and spend personal time with you. You don't get Dave and Pete's email and when you try and email others you don't get a response. I attempted to email the bootcamp teacher when I couldn't find ANY hard money lender that would let us pay points at the end and obviously got no response.

* They call you asking for another $25,000 to have an actual full time mentor that will work closely with you for a whole year! When you tell them you've been mislead on some things so far they apologize like crazy and give you the package for 1/2 price acting like they are very concerned.

* The new mentor does call you once a week for a 1/2 hour but is sitting in Salt Lake City and has no idea about Massachusetts laws or processes. He gives you advice but it's advice that only works in the world they made up where everything is easy. After a few weeks the mentor just quits calling. You were told you'd also have weekly calls with a group of people and this mentor. This also has not happened.

* You ask Pete and Dave at a seminar in Vegas if they will wholesale to their own students and they stumble and say they'll think about it. Basically even though you've paid thousands thinking these guys stand behind all of this education, they want nothing to do with you.

After all of this...you still have to do everything you would have done if you never went to their bootcamp. You still learn expensive lessons and find that nothing is as cheap and easy as they claim it is and you are now have $50,000 less to work with. I won't go into more detail...this post is long enough already.

So, the purpose of this post...instead of criticizing those that have fallen for this 'super obvious scam'...as some members imply, I'd like to use this huge network to actually do something about this. Lets save people 10's of thousands and stop the company from making millions. We're in for over $50,000. Yep...that's right, I didn't add an extra zero. It's very hard to go after these companies as an individual so it's best to use the power of numbers. Please PM me if you've also spent thousands and would like to get it back or know someone who has.

My #1 goal isn't to get my money back (although it would be nice) or slander anyone's name but to stop others from being lied too and stop these people from getting richer every day by giving people a line of BS. 

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Rental Property Investor 路 East Wenatchee, WA 路 Member since 2014 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes
11y

It official. Labor Day week should be 'scam awareness week'! Shady gurus? Had that! Wholesaler taking the EMD and running? Got it. Turnkey provider fudging numbers and conducting overall shady activity? You bet!

Here's my take away.  Shortcuts cost.  Looking for the easy way is sometimes just the easy way to be taken. Nothing worthwhile is achieved without effort.  Educate yourself.  Do your own due diligence.  Trust but verify. Locate a potential deal and bring it to a local ethical pro to help you.  Get an opportunity and a mentor will appear!  Make sure they are legit and not going to take you as well.

@Erica Nagle - thank you for sharing and I am sorry to learn of your experience. Did you learn anything REI related in buying all of this? Trusting no one until they prove themselves is a life lesson. Nothing specific? Extra sad. Thanks!

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  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor 路 Milwaukee, WI 路 Member since 2013 路 6k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:

    I keep wondering when someone's going to give me $1,000 for an hour of my time like the gurus get (ha ha). In real life, I have actually met with many BP members over lunch or dinner for an hour or two and everyone I've met has said it was a lot of information for the time. I think those looking for training or a mentor could learn a whole lot more from the friendly people on BP. Whether it's dinner or even paying for some time, I'd be willing to bet there would be more learning and less scamming that way.

    Dawn:  what's your paypal email?  I'll send you $1000.  Terms:   You have to have lunch with me, answer all my Milwaukee rental specific questions when I visit in October, and pose for cute picture together for BP.  Are we on?

     I would love a cute picture with you!

  • Realtor 路 Atlanta, GA 路 Member since 2015 路 693 posts 路 357 votes
    11y

    I literally cannot believe this is happening to people. Isn't there a way to get these things shut down?

  • Investor 路 Southeast, MI 路 Member since 2012 路 2k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Erica Nagle:

    I forgot to mention that someone asked about BiggerPockets at our bootcamp and the teacher said she "didn't see value in being a part of it. She's never gotten anything good from it". Ha!

    The guru's HATE this site. There's one in particular that you can't even mention by name here. If you do, the post will be removed IMMEDIATELY. Clowns.

  • Investor 路 Peabody, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 114 posts 路 107 votes
    11y

    @Rob K.

    How did the dude get that kind of power?!?!

  • Investor 路 Southeast, MI 路 Member since 2012 路 2k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Erica Nagle:

    @Rob K.

    How did the dude get that kind of power?!?!

    He's a total jerk and probably lawyered up. He has a real H.O. for this site.

  • Developer 路 Decatur, GA 路 Member since 2011 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Erica Nagle  If this thread were retitled to the training company and we all googled the training company and clicked on this forum, then the gurus would be punished.  This thread would become highly ranked and easily found. 

  • Merrick, NY 路 Member since 2015 路 38 posts 路 5 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:

    I keep wondering when someone's going to give me $1,000 for an hour of my time like the gurus get (ha ha). In real life, I have actually met with many BP members over lunch or dinner for an hour or two and everyone I've met has said it was a lot of information for the time. I think those looking for training or a mentor could learn a whole lot more from the friendly people on BP. Whether it's dinner or even paying for some time, I'd be willing to bet there would be more learning and less scamming that way.

    Dawn:  what's your paypal email?  I'll send you $1000.  Terms:   You have to have lunch with me, answer all my Milwaukee rental specific questions when I visit in October, and pose for cute picture together for BP.  Are we on?

     I'll do it for 100. So long as you don't expect me to know anything about Milwaukee rentals. ( Or look cute in a pic)

  • Mike HurneyPro Member
    Real Estate Investor 路 Boston, MA 路 Member since 2009 路 2k+ posts 路 542 votes
    11y

    @Erica Nagle and I suppose you don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny either?

    You may want to get to the local REIAs and meet some people doing local!

  • Investor 路 Central Valley, CA 路 Member since 2012 路 6k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    11y

    Actually, that was an attempt to get @Dawn Anastasi to smile.  I've been on her case a bit about letting people pay her for her time, experience and expertise.  IMO she way undervalues her skills, and doesn't let people pay her when they want to.  She knows what I'm talking about.

    I'm trying to arrange a WI recon mission.  If it works out, it means Dawn and K. Marie together in October.  Look out Milwaukee!

  • Investor 路 Peabody, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 114 posts 路 107 votes
    11y

    Update!

    I wanted to provide an update on where I am with this. I wrote a letter to the company stating all of the reasons I wanted my money back (3 pages of reasons), a list of the items broken down and a statement saying I would contact all sorts of media outlets and the Massachusetts and Utah state attorney general's office. I received a call from the 'director of customer service'...Shane something or other. 

    He started the conversation saying he doesn't respond threats and if I wanted to be reasonable he would talk to me. If not then I could proceed with what I said I'd do and I 'wouldn't get a penny!'. Additionally there was NO WAY I was getting even close to 50% of the total back. Whatever, so I said I'd listen to what he had to say. He started by saying he pulled up my account and had the survey's that we had filled out and they had glowing reviews from us. I explained that the original 3 day seminar was good and I wasn't asking for my money back on that. The second survey was after the boot camp and we thought it was good but implementing the things we learned at this boot camp we found that almost nothing applied to the current Boston market. Hard money loan terms way off, estimate worksheets completely wrong and their strategies to find and close deals didn't work. 

    I also said that I had no issues personally with the coach we were assigned but he simply didn't know our market. He didn't know Massachusetts real estate laws and didn't tell us anything that lead us to finding/closing a deal. He tried to assign me a new coach that was in the Boston market and I said I no longer needed a coach and why on earth weren't we given the right one in the first place? He said we should have asked for a new coach...what? I pay that much money and you don't take the time to figure out the appropriate coach for us? Also he tried to tell me the 'system works' because it's "Pete and Dave's system, they created it". Bull sh*t...of and Christina and Tarek also came up with the exact same system and both parties decided to sell the system out of a company in Utah? Yeah okay.

    Yada, yada, yada...the conversation ended with him saying we could talk in circles and his offer was to give me $10,000 or proceed with what I had threatened and again 'not get a penny!'. At this point I was done arguing with this dude and said I'd let him know. I called back and left him a message a couple of days later saying the best I could do was everything I asked for but I would take 1/2 of the cost of the bootcamp back. This was fair because we did go to the bootcamp and we used nothing else. Here is the breakdown of all costs I asked refunded.

    *The Flipping Formula Platinum Package: $26,297.00 (said 1/2 of this is all I would give up)

    *The Flipping Formula Upgrade to Diamond Package: $15,000.00 --> never used and this was taken away in exchange for the year long coaching at a 'discount'

    *Corporate Credit Builder w/Assistance: $2,495.00 --> this was useless 

    *Tax Sentry Package: $2,360.00 --> haven't used, no accounting advice given and contact is a large company

    *Advanced Real Estate Education Year Long Coaching $12,500.00 - been over this.

    So far I've heard nothing back from him so I'll likely be moving forward with contacting the multiple media outlets I listed. Again if anyone shares my story, please let me know and it will be even better to have more than one complaint about this company. 

  • Investor 路 Sherman Oaks, CA 路 Member since 2008 路 6k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Actually, that was an attempt to get @Dawn Anastasi to smile.  I've been on her case a bit about letting people pay her for her time, experience and expertise.  IMO she way undervalues her skills, and doesn't let people pay her when they want to.  She knows what I'm talking about.

    I'm trying to arrange a WI recon mission.  If it works out, it means Dawn and K. Marie together in October.  Look out Milwaukee!

     I want to come!馃槑

  • Real Estate Investor 路 Oxnard, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 1 post 路 1 vote
    11y

    Yes it seems that these training seminars are basically a scam.  My husband and I went to a free 2 hr Fortune Builders seminar then paid $197 for a 3 day session.  Found out end of day 1 (which we could barely manage to sit through it was such a waste of time) we found out they weren't going to give any useful information during the 3 days (it seemed more like an AA meeting to me), it was just a build up to get people to pay $25k for the Master Class or whatever they called it.   We got our $197 back.  I pity the poor suckers who signed up for the 'Master Class'.  It is so pathetic, they say you have to APPLY & BE INTERVIEWED to get into the Master Class. Yeah the only qualification is having credit cards on which you can charge the $25k!! Shameless.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor 路 Milwaukee, WI 路 Member since 2013 路 6k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    11y

    The more the merrier!

  • SILVER SPRING, MD - Maryland 路 Member since 2015 路 77 posts 路 43 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I keep wondering when someone's going to give me $1,000 for an hour of my time like the gurus get (ha ha). In real life, I have actually met with many BP members over lunch or dinner for an hour or two and everyone I've met has said it was a lot of information for the time. I think those looking for training or a mentor could learn a whole lot more from the friendly people on BP. Whether it's dinner or even paying for some time, I'd be willing to bet there would be more learning and less scamming that way.

    Dawn:  what's your paypal email?  I'll send you $1000.  Terms:   You have to have lunch with me, answer all my Milwaukee rental specific questions when I visit in October, and pose for cute picture together for BP.  Are we on?

     Haha, I know you two are joking, but thought that I'd throw in a random factoid that premium Big Law attorneys crested the $1,000 per hour billable rate years ago.  A fair number of British attorneys in England are over the $1,000 pound per hour mark.  

    Big Law's $1,000-Plus an Hour Club 

    Feburary 2011

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704071...

  • SILVER SPRING, MD - Maryland 路 Member since 2015 路 77 posts 路 43 votes
    11y
  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor 路 Milwaukee, WI 路 Member since 2013 路 6k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Chin P.:

     I didn't know there was a club!

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor 路 Milwaukee, WI 路 Member since 2013 路 6k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Susan Farmer:

    Yes it seems that these training seminars are basically a scam.  My husband and I went to a free 2 hr Fortune Builders seminar then paid $197 for a 3 day session.  Found out end of day 1 (which we could barely manage to sit through it was such a waste of time) we found out they weren't going to give any useful information during the 3 days (it seemed more like an AA meeting to me), it was just a build up to get people to pay $25k for the Master Class or whatever they called it.   We got our $197 back.  I pity the poor suckers who signed up for the 'Master Class'.  It is so pathetic, they say you have to APPLY & BE INTERVIEWED to get into the Master Class. Yeah the only qualification is having credit cards on which you can charge the $25k!! Shameless.

    I just spoke to someone the other day who went to Fortune Builders.  She was apparently brainwashed because when I went on to say something about it, she told me emphatically how wrong I was.  No, it's on the individual to make something out of it.  She said that they were kind enough to take her aside and discuss her financial situation and lower the 2nd tier course or what ever it is down to $1,000 and set her up on a payment plan of $200 per payment until it was all paid off.  This is someone who hardly has any money and is just scraping by.

  • Investor 路 Central Valley, CA 路 Member since 2012 路 6k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brian Gibbons:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Actually, that was an attempt to get @Dawn Anastasi to smile.  I've been on her case a bit about letting people pay her for her time, experience and expertise.  IMO she way undervalues her skills, and doesn't let people pay her when they want to.  She knows what I'm talking about.

    I'm trying to arrange a WI recon mission.  If it works out, it means Dawn and K. Marie together in October.  Look out Milwaukee!

     I want to come!馃槑

    It's now looking like a Spring 2016 trip.  My mother has decided to visit in October as my daughter has a new baby.  Mid November is a little too late for WI for me.  Even if I liked deep winter in WI, I want to be here in CA....in case it rains!

  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA 路 Arvada, CO 路 Member since 2015 路 2k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Actually, that was an attempt to get @Dawn Anastasi to smile.  I've been on her case a bit about letting people pay her for her time, experience and expertise.  IMO she way undervalues her skills, and doesn't let people pay her when they want to.  She knows what I'm talking about.

    I'm trying to arrange a WI recon mission.  If it works out, it means Dawn and K. Marie together in October.  Look out Milwaukee!

     I would pay big money for Youtube videos of this.  I think it would be like Thelma & Louise, but hopefully with a happier ending.

  • Investor 路 Central Valley, CA 路 Member since 2012 路 6k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Chin P.:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:

    I keep wondering when someone's going to give me $1,000 for an hour of my time like the gurus get (ha ha). In real life, I have actually met with many BP members over lunch or dinner for an hour or two and everyone I've met has said it was a lot of information for the time. I think those looking for training or a mentor could learn a whole lot more from the friendly people on BP. Whether it's dinner or even paying for some time, I'd be willing to bet there would be more learning and less scamming that way.

    Dawn:  what's your paypal email?  I'll send you $1000.  Terms:   You have to have lunch with me, answer all my Milwaukee rental specific questions when I visit in October, and pose for cute picture together for BP.  Are we on?

     Haha, I know you two are joking, but thought that I'd throw in a random factoid that premium Big Law attorneys crested the $1,000 per hour billable rate years ago.  A fair number of British attorneys in England are over the $1,000 pound per hour mark.  

    Big Law's $1,000-Plus an Hour Club 

    Feburary 2011

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704071...

    Dawn might be joking.  But I'm not!  I just picked up a check today for $1K from 2 agents who had consulted with me about how to close a title problem deal.  They had done their research and consulted with an attorney.  But were still clueless how to get it done (and who the other owners and lien holders were.)  I probably spent 2 hours on it though.  

  • Investor 路 Central Valley, CA 路 Member since 2012 路 6k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Linda Weygant:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Actually, that was an attempt to get @Dawn Anastasi to smile.  I've been on her case a bit about letting people pay her for her time, experience and expertise.  IMO she way undervalues her skills, and doesn't let people pay her when they want to.  She knows what I'm talking about.

    I'm trying to arrange a WI recon mission.  If it works out, it means Dawn and K. Marie together in October.  Look out Milwaukee!

     I would pay big money for Youtube videos of this.  I think it would be like Thelma & Louise, but hopefully with a happier ending.

    Puhleese.  Dawn and I and way beyond T&L in our consciousness and feminism.  And we have better taste in cars.  

  • Investor 路 Peachtree Corners, GA 路 Member since 2014 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Linda Weygant:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Actually, that was an attempt to get @Dawn Anastasi to smile.  I've been on her case a bit about letting people pay her for her time, experience and expertise.  IMO she way undervalues her skills, and doesn't let people pay her when they want to.  She knows what I'm talking about.

    I'm trying to arrange a WI recon mission.  If it works out, it means Dawn and K. Marie together in October.  Look out Milwaukee!

     I would pay big money for Youtube videos of this.  I think it would be like Thelma & Louise, but hopefully with a happier ending.

    Puhleese.  Dawn and I and way beyond T&L in our consciousness and feminism.  And we have better taste in cars.  

     But Brad Pitt....

  • Investor 路 Peachtree Corners, GA 路 Member since 2014 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Susan Farmer:

    Yes it seems that these training seminars are basically a scam.  My husband and I went to a free 2 hr Fortune Builders seminar then paid $197 for a 3 day session.  Found out end of day 1 (which we could barely manage to sit through it was such a waste of time) we found out they weren't going to give any useful information during the 3 days (it seemed more like an AA meeting to me), it was just a build up to get people to pay $25k for the Master Class or whatever they called it.   We got our $197 back.  I pity the poor suckers who signed up for the 'Master Class'.  It is so pathetic, they say you have to APPLY & BE INTERVIEWED to get into the Master Class. Yeah the only qualification is having credit cards on which you can charge the $25k!! Shameless.

     I'm glad you recognized it for the scam that it is, unfortunately many people don't.  Most are too embarrassed to admit it, but others such as the op raise hell and get some of their money back, but more importantly they talk/write about their experiences which help deter others from throwing away their money!

  • Real Estate Agent 路 Watertown, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 366 posts 路 77 votes
    10y

    I know a couple of people who went to  RichDad seminars/classes and another who did a Fortune Builders seminar and paid 25K-50K and they said they are using what they've learned.

  • Wholesaler 路 Waldorf, MD 路 Member since 2015 路 459 posts 路 245 votes
    10y

    @Erica Nagle I "invested", (eye roll here) in a seminar run by the flipping Vegas couple. Same type of setup:

    1)Free seminar with them coming to town

    2)of course they don't show up but their replacement is

    3) Sell the 3 day package for about $2000 with an easy (not) money back guarantee

    4)Attend the 3 day. Day 1 they teach you how to raise your credit limit for "investing". That night my wife & I looked up the seminar and saw all types of bad & good ratings. I even saw several on here, but didn't know what the sight was about. Plus I was totally sold. I was a train heading down hill that didn't want to be stopped.

    5) Day 2, they spend the first hour shooting down any naysayers that might of done some research on the internet. Then near the end of day 2 they mention all of the advanced packages. Then the light bulb goes off why they teach you how to raise your credit limit, but again I was already all-in. All of my logic was pushed aside.

    6)At the end of Day 3 they congratulate all of the investors that chose to go forward and further their upcoming careers. They kick everyone else out the room. It's a subtle ploy to make you feel special and those that didn't not worthy & to also push those on the fence to dive in.

    I bought a package and went to the boot camp. Mine was similar except that my instructor told us up front in his introduction - I'm a fulltime wholesaler & do several flips a year. I'm going to teach you what "they want me to teach you, but I'm also going to teach you what I actually do". He actually had to audio tape the session, so he would cut the tape off whenever he went off script.

    I was fortunate to actually snag him for lunch & we talked shop for over an hour. We actually were late for the start of class. The class was waiting on him to come back from lunch. LOL.

    He gave me a lot of great advice about what he was doing. I initially learned about DM from him. The boot camp doesn't teach about DM. It only taught how to wholesale utilizing bandit signs, run ghost ads on craigslist, bid on REOs and old listings on MLS. We visited Lowes, contact some RE agents to take us to houses to look at & make an offer.

    Needless to say it was for me a $27K lesson. My mindset after learning that I wasted a lot of money, was to simply go out with a goal to earn it back asap!

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