SF Bay Area Economic & RE Update (Ongoing)

SF Bay Area Economic & RE Update (Ongoing)

J. MartinPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

I have organized what I believe to be some very valuable information and relationships about the economy and real estate, and will be posting updates about the San Francisco Bay Area marketplace here periodically. I studied a lot of economics in school, and they told me you can't predict real estate prices. ********!!!! Let's lay the groundwork... And a big thanks to @Account Closed for his mentorship and economic

There tends to be a strong relationship between changes in employment and changes in real estate prices. Real estate prices in the Bay tend to go up when unemployment is falling. And they tend to flatten or go down when unemployment is rising. This tends to happen in regular cycles.

The relationship between changes in employment and changes in real estate prices becomes more obvious when we look at percent change in employment, and the rate of change (second derivative, but don't get bogged down in the terminology..)

This is interesting because:
1) The relationship appears meaningful
2) You can see a deceleration in employment gains (lower growth rate) while real estate prices are still increasing (at a decreasing rate). In other words, you can see the slow down in growth before real estate prices flatten or drop.

Coming out of a recession, look how job growth goes from it's worst (about 5% job loss in worst year) to 2% job loss the next year, 0% the following year, then 2% gains, then 4-5% gains, then starts lessening again to 3%, 2.5%, and tends to drift back down towards 0% again, before going negative.. But you can also see that home price appreciation

starts slowing (although still appreciating) as job growth slows.

Now what if there were some sort of way to predict how employment was going to change..?

What if there were a more local index that showed the way the economy and employment is and will do? Turns out, there’s one of those too!!!

To me, the picture becomes more clear. In the SF and East Bay Area, employment gains, economic activity, and real estate price appreciation peaked in 2012, and has been on a decline since. If you look at the prior two cycles, you can see each of these indicators reach a peak during the middle of the cycle, then decelerate (grow at a decreasing rate) as the expansionary phase of the economic cycle comes to an end. You can see the leading index for CA, economic conditions for San Francisco – Oakland – Hayward , changes in employment, and real estate price appreciation all grow at decreasing rates, until they approach zero, as we go into a recession…. I’ll post more for Silicon Valley, San Jose, and Santa Clara later.

Do you disagree with me? Is this information valuable? Too little time frame? Meaningless? Stupid for thinking we can predict how real estate prices will change over an economic cycle? If it were this obvious or easy, wouldn’t everyone already have figure it out, and we wouldn’t be talking about efficient market hypothesis? Does this change your perspective on real estate price appreciation and its predictability?

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Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @David S.:

@Account Closed. Thanks for the summary.

A $3M offer on a 14-unit building in "our market"....Surely, this cannot be located in the San Jose Bay area where you are located....Can you add any additional detail?

David,

I've been living and breathing real estate since 1999 and went all-in in 2009 when I recognized the opportunity. Thankfully my wife was supportive and gave me a thumb up to quit my W2 then. At the time, real estate was so cheap. I told people 2/1 condos in San Jose were being auctioned off at the courthouse steps for $117k-$135k. People looked at me like I was an idiot. These were selling for $400-$425k at the top of the market in 2006. Now, they're selling for $400-$450k a piece.

People have been giving me the same look when I tell them we buy 6 to 8-unit buildings for $1.2M in San Jose. @Johnson H. says I walk for millions. My partner and I hold hands and go for a walk in our market looking for buildings that need help. We write down the addresses, reach out to our agents and tell them to contact the owners. Then we submit our offers. We get deals here and there using this method. In fact, we're negotiating to buy a building with this method. Wife is ready to sell while husband is unsure of what to do with the proceeds.

@Bac Nguyen is correct. We only farm in one zip code. That is 95112. Our targeted markets are 2 blocks around SJSU and 1 block radius around Japantown. Anything between SJSU and Japantown is a tweener for us. We have passed on many tweener deals. In hindsight, they're great deals. @Account Closed, it's like direct marketing. You miss 100% shots that you don't take. That's what I remind Johnson. That's why I keep swinging. It's good to know that Wayne Gretzky said it. I like this quote of his just as much "A good player goes where the puck is while a great player goes where the puck will be."

This is MY QUOTE and I don't care who said it first. I came up with it a couple of weeks ago and installed it on my Tesla the day the frame came in. This has essentially been true with my life. Some of my friends believe I should be the "exclusive owner of the plate frame." I've ordered it for a few close friends and would love to give you one if you're interested. It's a good daily reminder IMO. 

Wife's sibling told me I should get DREAMER for my license plate. I may do just that. ;)

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    J,

    You're too smart for me to mentor you. If I have to make a bet between you and other people, I'll place my bet on you 99% of the time. 

    Thanks for sharing the data with me. I only share what I know with you, but that's about it. The rest of the findings were all your efforts. Based on the data we've looked at, I'm sticking to my prediction of a recession in 2017 +/- 6 months and the bottom of the next housing market in 2020. 

    Now, let me get back to focus on getting my wife off her W2 by 2017, help my little sister follow her dreams, team up with David to achieve our goals sooner and convince Johnson to quit his W2 job. Gasp!  Yeah, Johnson is right behind you J.  :>)

    As you can see, I'm contagious. People around me are slowly giving up their W2's. I'm ruining everyone's life. Yikes!

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    I am with you but where is this recession part going to come from in Bay area specifically? 

    What sectors are getting hit?

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Matt R.:

    I am with you but where is this recession part going to come from in Bay area specifically? 

    What sectors are getting hit?

    Tech!

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed That would do it then. What indicators for a tech recession do you see? Slowdown I can understand but are you thinking negative growth in tech?

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    SILICON VALLEY

    Silicon Valley house price appreciation has been fantastic as the leading index, local economic conditions, and employment growth has remained high and increasing. However, the local economic conditions index has recently dropped sharply, as the CA leading index declines and becomes more volatile, and employment growth is decelerating slightly from its rapid pace of just above 5%. Look what happens historically when local economic conditions drop off.. R 

    @Matt R.

    Bay Area / Silicon Valley real estate prices seem to have a pretty strong correlation with the stock market, as does the economic cycle. Notice that the stock market tends to turn down BEFORE a recession starts, and real estate prices tend not to do as well in the Bay Area when the stock market is going down. What do you think?

    It also appears that the local economic conditions index in Silicon Valley is correlated with stock markets, as is employment and RE appreciation.

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @J. Martin Looks like it is correlated and or circumstantial to local dot com bust and GFC. I would agree this will be tested again. It would be interesting to see this chart on the zip code level. Can stocks go down and Bay area be ok? My guess is yes. Can tech bust and or GFC happen and Bay area be ok? No.

  • Investor · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2014 · 63 posts · 77 votes
    10y

    Hi J.

    I am very impressed by your leading recession indicators chart (third one) and don't disagree with your conclusions.

    The one point I would like to discuss is that in 2 out of 3 (excluding housing crisis) of your charted recessions the Home price index didn't go negative or barely went negative.  ie prices still rising

    Do you think a heavier tech MSA would, for example, go show more negative for the 2001 tech crash? If we think the reason for the next Bay Area "correction" will be tech, then this is kinda  important for the many first investment/first home buyers. As you point out, the more experienced will be in a better position to take advantage of any (smaller) correction.

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    In his December essay, UCLA Anderson senior economist Jerry Nickelsburg looks at California’s most recent economic data, including trade through California’s ports, international arrivals at Los Angeles International Airport and San Francisco International Airport, state government finances, residential construction and employment. (These data represent the sectors that differentiate the state from the U.S. average forecast.) Nickelsburg cites data that indicate ongoing growth for California, including:

    Port activity in September was at a historically high level.International passenger arrivals at the Los Angeles and San Francisco airports have reached record numbers over the past year.A (shallow) upward trend in sales taxes, which are still below the pre-recession peak when adjusting for inflation.Continued growth in residential construction.Impressive gains in California employment.

    The current forecast is for continued steady gains in employment through 2017.

    http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-anderson-forecast-job-growth-wage-increases-to-push-real-gdp-growth-past-3-for-first-time-since-05

  • Investor · Milpitas, CA · Member since 2015 · 278 posts · 155 votes
    10y

    @J. Martin, what do these graphs look like when you do this with rent prices (Are there rent indices?)

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    Tech definitely bust and boom for Bay area. I think we must understand this is not your grandfathers tech industry anymore. (IBM) Sure some of the players stock can get hit hard but this is not like Detroit selling cars or something. Around the world the one industry least susceptible to recession? Tech. Now 1/3 of global production is tech and half of that you can commute to from your front door. Fundamentally, this is going to take one hell of a crisis to turn fully negative short or long run.

  • Investor · Milpitas, CA · Member since 2015 · 278 posts · 155 votes
    10y

    @Matt R., I think there's a lot more to the bay area tech than publicly traded companies compared to last time. Of course, not as many companies are IPOing like in the dot com, but there are a bunch of start ups in the area that have unsustainable business models that do not profit. 

    What happens when VC funding slows down, which it has started to, or even dries up? 

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Andrew Wong I agree. When we add up all the recent VC I think is less than one 100th of Google value. Less than one 1000th of Bay area tech value. Hey, those dudes are going to lose their shirts but I doubt it would be a blip on the radar.

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Wong:

    @J. Martin, what do these graphs look like when you do this with rent prices (Are there rent indices?)

    Andrew,

    I asked Johnson and J Martin for this data awhile ago, but they couldn't find it....yet. I asked a friend who happens to know the owner of Craigslist for the rental data, but Craig wouldn't share it. The reason I asked for this data was to see if it can be a leading indicator for the housing market in addition to the Housing Affordability Index. 

    I looked at the stock market and the housing market to see a relationship between the two, but there's no definitive which one is a leading indicator.

    @Matt R., I consider myself a little fortunate. My multi-family investment partner happens to be in the VC circle and an Angel Investor himself. Riding on his coattail, I was able to attend exclusive meetings and lunches for wealthy individuals, who have liquid assets >$5MM. Yes, that's >$5MM cash in the bank. How do you think we've been able to obtain millions in loans on non-performing multi-family and both of us don't have a job? It was because of him, not me. I'm the guy who's coming up with loan structures and terms for each building while my partner goes and execute it. @David C. saw me in live action. David said I'm the strategist while my partner is the executor.  :>)

    The reason we believe the next downturn in tech is because VC fundings came to a screeching halt in the 4th quarter of 2015 while it slowed down dramatically in the 3rd quarter. Companies that didn't get fundings in the 3rd and 4th quarters 2015 are likely to go bust in 2016. Companies that are looking for additional fundings in 2016 will likely not going to get it. By our estimation, the combined valuation of all unicorn companies will get a 75-80% hair cut in the next recession. If they are valued at $1T combined, they will likely worth $200-$250B. We expect lay-off to pick up a little this year and more next year.

    As J Martin above, our market will likely continue to go up but at a decreasing rate until it gets to neutral before turning negative. Things don't happen overnight. If history is any indication, we will be in a recession in 18 months +/- 6 months. Unfortunately, we won't know we're in a recession until we're out of it. The data tends to lack almost 9 months. Anyways, have to hang up now and continue to drive to our vacation destination. Chat later!

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed It will take me a minute to decipher what you are mathematically presenting. Fortunately I can default to your insider take.  I do think some VC dudes will be getting wiped out soon. That VC headache will last very long.

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    q@Account Closed At first glance the numbers seem to off from what is reported as VC investments as far what was invested in any given year. For example 2014 was 42 billion and 11 billion of that in SF. Perhaps we have to decide what qualifies as VC. Are you considering the VC for FB and Goog into your trillion number? If so, that it is way beyond my pay grade (free) to factor.

  • Investor · Northern California · Member since 2015 · 126 posts · 40 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Now, let me get back to focus on getting my wife off her W2 by 2017, help my little sister follow her dreams, team up with David to achieve our goals sooner and convince Johnson to quit his W2 job. Gasp!  Yeah, Johnson is right behind you J.  :>)

    As you can see, I'm contagious. People around me are slowly giving up their W2's. I'm ruining everyone's life. Yikes!

    Go ahead Minh...ruin us!  Ruin us ALL!  :)

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Matt R.:

    q@Account Closed At first glance the numbers seem to off from what is reported as VC investments as far what was invested in any given year. For example 2014 was 42 billion and 11 billion of that in SF. Perhaps we have to decide what qualifies as VC. Are you considering the VC for FB and Goog into your trillion number? If so, that it is way beyond my pay grade (free) to factor.

    Matt,

    If you add the market cap of GOOG & AAPL, I think we're at $1T. However, these are not the unicorn companies I'm taking about.

    The $1T above is just a nice round example number. I don't have the exact number, but the combined valuation for these unicorn companies has to be in the hundreds of billions. The list of the unicorn companies with valuation from $1B - $50B was so long. I didn't capture them all during the exclusive presentation. I didn't recognized them name of most of these multi-billion companies, but my partner recognized quite a few of them. :>)

    The company that I recognized was Uber valuing at $50B, but it's losing like $500M/year. In general, half of these unicorn companies are losing money. My understanding is that the reason VC fundings was down significantly in the 3rd and 4th quarters because most of these companies' valuation was cut in half when they went IPO. 

    With the data presented to us, I eyeballed it and came to the conclusion that most of these companies will not make it, and the ones making it through will have 1/3 to 1/2 of its present valuation. My partner concurred with my conclusion. He said some of these companies will fold when they go for the next round of fundings. Companies that didn't get the fundings this last round will likely fold in the coming months.

    Hmm, maybe I can have my partner ask for a copy of the presentation.  

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Heart:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Now, let me get back to focus on getting my wife off her W2 by 2017, help my little sister follow her dreams, team up with David to achieve our goals sooner and convince Johnson to quit his W2 job. Gasp!  Yeah, Johnson is right behind you J.  :>)

    As you can see, I'm contagious. People around me are slowly giving up their W2's. I'm ruining everyone's life. Yikes!

    Go ahead Minh...ruin us!  Ruin us ALL!  :)

    Lauren,

    I used to be a W2 employee, but I knew I was going to own my own biz one day. In fact, I had my own biz before I worked at a W2 job. I guess I knew early on that I want to build my own dreams instead of building someone else's. 

    What I have realized is that time will continue to pass regardless if we want it or not. We can either spend it creating a life we want, or spend it living a life we don't want or care for. Believe it or not, I've been thinking of how I want to live the remaining years of my life on this earth. I want to be able to share my "luck" with others so I will put my head down for 2 more years to achieve my outrageous goals so I can have the means to help easing the pains of others. 

    It was nice meeting you on Friday. We'll talk a lot more when I reached my goal in a couple of years. Enjoy your Sunday afternoon.

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed Right on. What I read was there was going to be a VC reset and blood bath coming soon. If you are a company losing 500 mil a year and never made a penny I would think your days might be numbered.  So perhaps Uber and the rest of the non 2016 money makers will go bye bye soon. What that might leave is just the real deal ones to invest in. 

    http://labusinessjournal.com/news/2016/feb/09/top-silicon-beach-venture-capitalist-warns-bloodba/

  • Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 15 posts · 21 votes
    10y

    @J. Martin: great stuff buddy... thank you for posting another data set to generate discussion. Apologies in advance for the long reply.. I got carried away with the linkage to tech.

    @Account Closed I think your read on the state of VC and the tech sector in the Bay Area is accurate directionally. I have a lot of friends who are tech founders and have raised VC myself for my previous company. Anecdotally, the VC funding market has topped and the dynamics of fundraising have turned (more favorable to VCs than founders). VCs are negotiating hard for lower startup valuations in 2016, including down rounds (which kill employee morale and are founders' worst enemy). It is going to be harder to close a new round of funding in 2016. This is a big shift from even 4 months ago. 

    Regarding the exclusive presentation on unicorns... for the benefit of others, most of this data is openly available. According to a well-known VC analyst source, there are currently 152 unicorns with total valuation of $552B. You were in the correct on the order of magnitude :) 

    I agree many of the unicorns will end up seeing valuations fall, perhaps we will see write downs of 25-50%... accurate private data is tricky to find. but we also have a very visible proxy in the public equity markets. Founders and investors do look at public equity markets valuations when forecasting cash flows to analyze later stage growth financings. There is a high degree of correlation between VC returns and public stocks. Meaning we can watch the stock market trends and see that extended market downturns will likely pull down VC returns (and, reduce the amount of total VC investment to startups). 

    I think this is where we stand now. Public equity markets have topped. Public valuations (esp tech over the past 30 days) have fallen. Later stage investors like Fidelity, that were the latest investors in unicorns, have started to write down the value of their private investments  knowing that the public equities markets valuation have fallen and cannot support these private valuations. (IPOs, the best exit strategy for a VC backed startup, have faltered and also dried up).

    To bring it full circle, why should REIs in SF Bay Area (and Boston) care about tech startups? well, here in SF, tech startups provide somewhere around 9-13% of jobs (depending on your source) in the city now, but account for about 22% of the total wage income. Directly. The indirect impact through non-tech jobs added in the economy to support those workers raises both numbers. The impacts are prob less in Oakland, perhaps slightly more in places like Sunnyvale and Palo Alto.

    VC investment is slowing... meaning growth in high-wage tech jobs (and indirectly, non-tech jobs) is slowing. The fastest growing startup ever (Zenefits) just fired its CEO, implemented a hiring freeze, and was written down by Fidelity 50%. It didn't hit revenue.

    IMHO, Is the sky-falling? no. is it March of 2001? no. Google, FB, Slack, Uber will not crater. The tech sector of 2016 is filled with real startups with real revenue. But I agree with J. Martin and Minh that the risks to Bay Area real estate from the tech sector alone have risen considerably from 6 months ago. Let's keep an eye on VC and employment data.

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Kathryn M.:

    Hi J.

    I am very impressed by your leading recession indicators chart (third one) and don't disagree with your conclusions.

    The one point I would like to discuss is that in 2 out of 3 (excluding housing crisis) of your charted recessions the Home price index didn't go negative or barely went negative.  ie prices still rising

    Do you think a heavier tech MSA would, for example, go show more negative for the 2001 tech crash? If we think the reason for the next Bay Area "correction" will be tech, then this is kinda  important for the many first investment/first home buyers. As you point out, the more experienced will be in a better position to take advantage of any (smaller) correction.

     Kathryn,

    You are correct that the economic downturns produce more varying results for RE than economic upturns. Of the last 3 recessions, we had the 90's with a slight dip in prices over almost a half decade. The great recession, where there was a decline. And the dot com, where prices just slowed. Those who bought when unemployment was low were more likely to experience these results. But one thing that is consistent is that real estate tends to do very well when unemployment peaks, on its way declining.

    So if I have to choose between buying when unemployment is high and starting to decline, when prices tend to go up 50-100% in the following years - or buy when unemployment is low, when prices tend to be relatively flat, slightly down, or significantly down - what would I choose? I choose the former? If those "eras" seem predictable, then why not?

    I think Patrick Carlisle summed this up pretty good in his "30 years of Bay Area.." famous article.. http://www.paragon-re.com/3_Recessions_2_Bubbles_and_a_Baby
    Notice that the upsides are always big. And the downsides are varied. He shows slight losses in each one. I agree that I would have expected a bigger decline in RE after the dot com bust around the Bay. @Minh Le and I share a theory that maybe the Fed kept their foot a little too hard on the gas after the last downturn, and some of those risks that built up in the dot com times maybe were pushed forward to snowball and be realized in the Great Recession.

    Remember, the Fed won't have as much firepower next time. Unless reality significantly deviates from current expectations on future rate rises.

    @Matt R.,

    I agree the stock market may be correlated and not necessarily pure causation. But I do believe stock market prices and volatility definitely influence tech valuations, the pace of deals, and sentiment among investors and decision-makers in the space. Even if things weren't softening across the world, things have already gotten as good as they get.. Does it look like we're about to experience a big boom? Or the latter phase of an expansionary cycle..?

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Matt R.:

    In his December essay, UCLA Anderson senior economist Jerry Nickelsburg looks at California’s most recent economic data, including trade through California’s ports, international arrivals at Los Angeles ....

    The current forecast is for continued steady gains in employment through 2017.

    http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-anderson-fo...

     Matt,
    I know you are an enormous fan of UCLA Anderson's forecast, but taste some other Kool-Aid out there too! I'm personally not quite as rosy as their forecast, and in fact, I'm wiling to put my money where my mouth is! To me, near-record everything great tells me we are ready for a downturn when the cracks start forming - not that things are set to keep booming for the next two years. I think we need to look beyond the good numbers in the last couple quarters, and look at the whole cycle.

    I specifically disagree with this analysis, and am willing to bet against it if you are up for it:

    "...we expect the Fed to begin normalizing interest rates by increasing the Federal Funds rate this month. … Thus, we forecast that by the end of 2016 the federal funds rate will be about 1.5 percent and it will approximate 3.25 percent at the end of 2017.”"

    I will bet you $500 that the lower bound of the target fed funds rate will be lower than 1.5% by the end of 2016, and lower than 3.25% by the end of 2017. If you want, we can do $250 for each year. You would be betting that the lower bound of the Fed's target fed funds is 1.5% or higher (currently .25%). I don't think the slowdown in global growth will allow it in many ways. Please accept in the forums, and we'll be on record here. We can settle each Jan 1st ;)

    I'm also not as rosy as you on tech. Things come, and things go. We hit a data anniversary last month as the total number of jobs in Silicon Valley MSA finally hit the same level they were before the dot-com bust.

    If this expansion does go on for another 2 years - and especially if real estate keeps gaining at these rates - I think we'll be better set up for some dislocations.. ;)

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Sorry if this hijacks the thread into a slightly different direction, but the $1M question when the rubber hits the road is: What are you going to do about it, as a Real Estate investor? The guy who doesn't believe such things can be predicted would say "Nothing". If you believe that the dip will be 10% or less as it has been in the past, and it costs 10% to sell, you might still say "Nothing" on stuff you already own, just be more conservative with margins and underwriting with new acquisitions. Or, you might try shortening up your holding period to do more wholeselling or flipping to minimize market risk. Or you might move out of state and 1031 to a more steady high cash flow market. Or you could build your war chest (save, sell, and/or cash out refinance) and wait for the turn. Or you could deleverage (save or sell to pay off/down the mortgage(s)). Or ...

    So, whatcha gonna do about it?

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @J. Martin I think we can assume this is a top with some degree of confidence, let's say 80%. For LA probably different story.

    Random tech thoughts:

    The fundamentals for long run seem in place and short run for unicorns....well it might be hard for those valuations to hold up in this decade. I remember years ago explaining to peeps the biggest internet company has yet to be started. Sure enough Google and FB come in many years later. Perhaps one of those unicorns blows up too. On the other hand, in the early 1900s there were over 1000 auto makers and by 1950 just a handful left. Think about if FB wanted to how quickly could they challenge uber or airbnb or just any about company that relies on them but it must be chump change for them now.

    I am not a fan of UCLA forecasters, just sharing their take as this is what they do 365.  I can respect their work. That is an interesting bet. Let me ponder that:) Not sure I like those odds....

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @J. Martin:

    I specifically disagree with this analysis, and am willing to bet against it if you are up for it:

    "...we expect the Fed to begin normalizing interest rates by increasing the Federal Funds rate this month. … Thus, we forecast that by the end of 2016 the federal funds rate will be about 1.5 percent and it will approximate 3.25 percent at the end of 2017.”"

    I will bet you $500 that the lower bound of the target fed funds rate will be lower than 1.5% by the end of 2016, and lower than 3.25% by the end of 2017. If you want, we can do $250 for each year. You would be betting that the lower bound of the Fed's target fed funds is 1.5% or higher (currently .25%). I don't think the slowdown in global growth will allow it in many ways. Please accept in the forums, and we'll be on record here. We can settle each Jan 1st ;)

     Ha Ha! This reminded me of the Princess Bride quote "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!" Not sure which of you is Sicilian in this case, though ... probably both :)

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