Newbie Investor - Section 8 in Baltimore City/County

Newbie Investor - Section 8 in Baltimore City/County

Baltimore, MD · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 39 votes

Hey BP,

It's been a year since I joined and made my first post, and I feel like I've made substantial gain in my knowledge and preparation for this journey of real estate investing. I've completed The Book on Rental Property Investing (a few times I might add), listened to many of the BP podcasts, and read many of the forums related to investing in my hometown of Baltimore. Staying at home with family, I was also able to save up enough money for a sizable down payment on a property. I'm attending my first REIA meetup this week and looking forward to learning more, but I'm ready to take action and hope to purchase my first deal soon.

After researching different areas and strategies, I am looking to pursue the "BRRRR" strategy in Baltimore with C-class single-family homes (3 BR) and rent the properties to market-rate and Section 8 tenants. After studying the pros and cons of Section, the potential for good cash flow in these neighborhoods makes sense with the right team in place given the backlog of tenants, fewer properties that accept them and generally lower turnover. Areas like Dundalk, Middle River, Northwood, Hollins Market seem like good candidates.

For investors and property managers experienced with this program, 

1. Are there any significant differences between how the program is administered between Baltimore City and Baltimore County that favor one over the other? Are there better neighborhoods than the ones I've mentioned?

2. For the sake of refinancing, does renting to a Section-8 tenant have any adverse impact on determining property value (ie. is 75% LTV unrealistic for these type of properties)?

3. Given that Section 8 performs their own annual inspection of the property, how important is a "lead-free" certificate over "lead-safe"? I imagine any property requiring lead paint remediation will be expensive.

4. I read a post about some of the headaches of the program, where someone declared that HUD can withhold a voucher for payment for broken items in the home, tenant/HUD not notifying the landlord for a fix, and waiting weeks for re-inspection before payments are issued. Are these exaggerations or examples of situations that can be mitigated with the right property management in place?

I know this seems very specific for a newbie, but it's something I'm looking to refine. I am also looking to connect with real estate agents, lenders, and property managers in the area.

Keenan

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Ned CareyPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
8y

@Justin Mullins I probably wouldn't consider it at this point but many investors would. I know of two very successful investors who work a relative poor neighborhood. They are buying all they can get in the area, and the area has improved as they have replaced bad tenants with good responsible ones. 

The 50 to a hundred in one portfolio would scare me. If they are in bad areas that is a lot of risk to take one at one time. Sometimes good property managers wont take on properties in weak areas..

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  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    Keenan:

    Questions 1-3 tend to be agency specific so can be slightly different from city to city.   

    4) Yes, it is true. I've had this happen in 3 different states.  The agency comes in and says "the window has a crack in it that needs to be fixed".   I will note that the window wasn't cracked when the tenant moved in, but as the landlord, it is now your responsibility to fix it.   That is when payments stop until it is reinspected.  Actually, the most annoying example is the tenant takes the battery out of the smoke detector because it was chirping, which is a violation that has the same result.

    I will add to this an issue you did not bring up.  Most Section 8 tenants do not have a security deposit.  So, when they move out if they property has a lot of damage, you have little recourse.   

    I've had a dozen or so Section 8 tenants in different states, both in houses and in apartments.   Many have been fine tenants, but you get a higher portion of difficult tenants.   My general policy is to avoid Section 8 vouchers.

  • Real Estate Agent · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2017 · 47 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    I live in that neighborhood.  Please be kind and ensure your properties are a positive for the neighborhood and not a negative!  Too many bad landlords around here weighing down this city.  

  • Baltimore, MD · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 39 votes
    9y

    @Mark Moyer I'm not sure what is meant by your comment, as I'm only seeking to gather information. Which neighborhood are you specifically referring to, and what are landlords doing that you would do differently?

  • Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 58 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    The section 8 program lost a lot of federal funding so they are not giving out as high rents as they use too. The inspectors are almost always going to find something wrong on the inspection because if you pass on the first time you do not have to get inspected for two years instead of annual inspections. If a lot of landlords pass on the first time that means less inspection less inspections and that means less inspectors. County section 8 is much easier to work with and more willing to give you what you ask for rent wise where the city has been low balling people. Lead free is better for peice of mind I can say.  Hope that helps at least a little bit. 

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y

    @Keenan Rusk There are differences between the city and county section 8 programs but I couldn't tell you what they are. My guess is they both have their pros and cons. It is my belief that the city is actually better regarding section 8. However the county is easier to deal with in general. 

    There are plenty of good neighborhoods. There are plenty of bad neighborhoods and there are lots of neighborhoods that are good on one side and bad at the other. each property acquisition has to be weighed individually. A bad deal in a great neighborhood is still a bad deal. 

    Section 8 may actually help financing as the lender knows the governments share of the rent will be there on the 1st. 

    I don't think it makes a difference regarding section 8 which type of lead certificate you have. 

    Yes section 8 will have its headaches but they can be mitigated with good management as you suggest.

  • Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    Question: If there was a nice newly renovated turnkey rental property 2 BR in Baltimore city, section 8 ready for 60K-65K in Baltimore but the area wasn't the greatest, would you still consider that a worthy investment? What if instead of 1 there were 50 or 100 of them for sale as a portfolio where it may make sense to hire a property management company, does that make a difference in how you would view it as in investment?

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y

    @Justin Mullins I probably wouldn't consider it at this point but many investors would. I know of two very successful investors who work a relative poor neighborhood. They are buying all they can get in the area, and the area has improved as they have replaced bad tenants with good responsible ones. 

    The 50 to a hundred in one portfolio would scare me. If they are in bad areas that is a lot of risk to take one at one time. Sometimes good property managers wont take on properties in weak areas..

  • Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    @Ned Carey your answers are always well thought out an on point! Thank you!! 

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