House Hacking and Finishing a Basement - Advice Appreciated!

House Hacking and Finishing a Basement - Advice Appreciated!

Rental Property Investor · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 55 votes

Hello BP Community!

My wife and I have been BP podcast listeners for the last year and are very thankful for this community of great people. Most recently, Scott Trench’s book Set for Life really hit home for us. We've been on the earn and consume treadmill for the last two years as we graduated, got married, and bought a house - we want off! Long term, my wife and I want to have a portfolio of rental properties to pay down debt, accelerate our wealth, and deliver financial security and eventually freedom. 

Almost 2 years ago, we bought our 5-bed, 2-bath dream home in Monument, CO (80132) on 5 acres. We now realize that a better strategy, in terms of long-term wealth and freedom, would have been to sacrifice for a couple years, buy a 4-plex downtown or jump from SFR to SFR, and start a little empire of rentals. We don't see a big benefit to moving out of our house right now. In its current state, I don't think we could totally cover the mortgage by renting it out – definitely not if including vacancy, capex, repairs, etc. The house still needs work and we are working on that (trim, doors, bathrooms, landscaping, etc). Nevertheless, it is a home that we can see ourselves in for a long time and where we'd want to raise a family.

After long debate and a slow shift in perspective, my wife and I decided to give house hacking a shot. Our tenant is another young professional, is on a month-to-month lease, and currently pays $650/month for one room. What a game changer! We don’t know why we were so scared to start with and don’t know how we could give up that income that can accelerate our wealth building for the convenience of being “normal” and not having others live in our home.

The reason I am posting this is to get feedback and advice from those who also like to think creatively. We currently have an unfinished, walkout basement that is approximately 1,100 sqft. We want to finish the basement and do one of the following: move down there and rent out the rest of our house (5-bed, 2bath), or simply rent out the walkout basement (planned to be a 2-bed, 1 bath) via long term leases, AirBnB, or even target travel nurses (my wife currently is one and has those types of connections).

One spot I'm looking for specific advice is in regards to financing the basement. As an engineer and a night-shift nurse, we make around $160k and have credit scores touching 800. Unfortunately, we only put 5% down on our home and currently have about 8% equity in the house – so I'd imagine that a HELOC or home loan is out of the question. Again, we aren't that fond of selling the house either and losing $25k to the agents. That leaves us focusing on getting a good rate on a Personal Loan (any advice on a specific company? I'm currently planning on giving LightStream a shot). Yes, the rates may end up being around 10%, but if our payment will be $850/month and we can rent the basement for $1400, it just makes sense right? I guess I'm thinking of it like hard money? This assumes the basement costs around $40k all in and we put it on a 5 year loan. In addition, assuming a renter was there forever (unlikely, but plausible), that's an infinite COC return! Worst-case scenario, we stop renting after a couple years because of unforeseen life changes (my wife becomes the next octomom or we move once my wife becomes an NP or something), and we are left with a basement that was half funded by other people, right?

Ultimately, we think finishing the basement is a great idea if we commit to renting it out for several years, which we do. I don’t know anywhere near us where we can buy a 2-bed, 1-bath unit for under $50k. I checked Craigslist for those in my area that rent out a room in their house too. Rooms range from $600-800/month with utilities included in our Monument / Northern Colorado Springs area – zip codes 80132, 80921, and 80920. Also, we think if we replaced our doors and trim throughout the whole house while we do the basement, our house would be updated enough to potentially rent out the whole thing for a much higher amount than we currently could and better cover the mortgage if we needed to in the future. We completely remodeled the kitchen last year and the yard this summer; the biggest thing holding it back from demanding $2500-3000/month would be the doors and trim to dress it all up.

One fear I have is that if we pull out a $40k unsecured, personal loan out to finish the basement, what does that do for our future rental property purchases? Let’s say that next summer, we decide to rent out our whole house and buy another house in downtown CS, live there for a year, then jump to another one or two before going back to our dream home with a family. Would we be able to purchase another house when we currently have a $2,000 mortgage and potentially a $40k unsecured personal loan? How can we prove that we have rental income for the first residence? Does it get even trickier if we did AirBnB or short term rentals with no long-term lease (like 6 month or 1 year)?

Thanks in advance for your time and patience! One more shout out to Scott Trench – incredible book. We appreciate all of your guys’ wisdom and advice.

Cheers,

Michael & Kim

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Realtor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y

What's your monthly nut? How much are you "consuming" each month? I ask because if you can cut back, maybe you could get that basement finish paid off in a year or two. 

I'd make a kitchenette down there and rent to 2 people or a couple. Where is the laundry, and could you add another down there or upstairs?

Now to get personal. Are you guys having kids soon or at all? Once we had kids, it was a game changer. I was told no more tenants by the boss. Just something to consider because I sure didn't. Losing that $800 a month hurt a bit. 

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  • Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 265 posts · 234 votes
    8y

    @Michael Vialpando , inspiring to hear that a young couple is disciplined and dedicated to financial freedom; that will serve you well!

    I"ve been married 36 years....and never considered house hacking in those early married years. I never contemplated moving into a lessor house for the future good....but your "delayed gratification" trait will also serve you well.

    When I got into REI just 5 years ago, I asked some of your same questions, but in reverse order.

    I ask: where can I buy a home with unfinished basement and make a profit in finishing it? You ask: I have an unfinished basement, is it a good investment to finish it and rent?

    I ask: where can I buy a fixxer-upper....that updating kitchen/bath/trim makes me a "flip" profit. You ask: I have this, should I keep going?

    I say, I'm going to stay in my primary residence....moving is off limits. Where should I invest in fix/flip or fix/hold? You ask: should I forgo my current residence and move "down" and house hack a 4-plex?

    If it helps, I'm guessing your $2000 mortgage goes with around a $400k home with 5% down. If $5k more trim makes it rentable.....do you like a $405k property that rents for $2500 to $3000. First idea is this is 0.62% to 0.74% of purchase price....not likely a stellar deal for your setting. (might be the best you can do in Denver now). With other costs included, $3000 gross rent, and $2000 mortgage many not be that stellar of net cash flow. I would think your 5 acres is adding to the cost, but not helping the rent. Same with your unfinished basement.

    If a $40k basement finish yields $1400 rent....that increment sounds like 3.5% of cost....a home run!

    But, I'd ask, what does a 5BR/2ba home on 5 acres ARV with an extra 1100sf finished? Can I sell it for that? (if yes, fix/flip value added by finishing the basement.

    In Denver, I wouldn't be able to put in a separate basement apartment (full kitchen) unless I'm zoned for a duplex; you should check that for your location. Otherwise, you might get a basement with a "wet bar"....but not a full kitchen, if up to "code". But, when you go to sell, who wants an up/down duplex on your 5 acres????? is it an asset or liability? What does your neighborhood allow? Is Airbnb allowed in Monument?

    As for how to finance, keep talking to banks and credit unions....you might be able to get a home equity loan for your remodel? Are you sure your $400k(?) home hasnt' appreciated in 2 years.....are you sure you only have 8% equity from the loan paydown alone?

    Read about the BRRRR strategy; after remodeling your basement, and finishing the upstairs, could you ask for a new appraisal and cash out refi on the new ARV?

    Your $2000 mortgage, against your $160k income is only 15% debt/income. You can likely qualify for more. You may be able to qualify for another $2000 mortgage on a separate rental property today (provided you have 20% down). Have you two been socking away a bunch of savings in the past 2 years with that nice income?

    Best wishes.

  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    8y

    Thanks so much for the words of praise, and I'm so glad that you enjoyed the book, and have a plan to move toward financial freedom without sacrificing happiness. 

    To answer your question:

    Consider a personal loan - There are places that may offer personal loans of the amount you are looking for. While I normally wouldn't consider using debt to cover an expense like a home remodel, true dedication to earning a CoC return in a pursuit that so seamlessly synergizes with your short and long-term goals might make this an exception to where that could be a potential benefit. Lending Club or SoFi might be a place to check out for a mid-sized loan in the range you are considering. Make sure that you get the opinion of several folks you respect in your local market in terms of whether this will truly work out the way you think before committing.

    Alternatively, consider finishing the basement yourself. If you are still ramping up and don't have more than $100K outside of home equity and retirement accounts, this might be a reasonable use of free time, and a project that might give you skills that are useful in perpetuity. However, if you go down this route, make sure that you view it as a fun project and learning opportunity that happens to also have a huge potential financial benefit in the form of forced equity and rental income, and not as something to get out of the way as soon as possible. One mindset will likely lead to a rewarding experience, the other to a disaster and a huge life suck.

  • Realtor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    What's your monthly nut? How much are you "consuming" each month? I ask because if you can cut back, maybe you could get that basement finish paid off in a year or two. 

    I'd make a kitchenette down there and rent to 2 people or a couple. Where is the laundry, and could you add another down there or upstairs?

    Now to get personal. Are you guys having kids soon or at all? Once we had kids, it was a game changer. I was told no more tenants by the boss. Just something to consider because I sure didn't. Losing that $800 a month hurt a bit. 

  • Investor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2014 · 12 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    So, for a personal loan, we have used in the past, cash advances on credit cards. They can have a 0% rate for 12 months or maybe 2-3% rate for 18 months. The down side to credit card cash advance is that there is a 3-4% fee on day one to take the money out. But, if paid off in 12 months, it comes out to about 4% which is better than the 10% you quoted above. 

    Another thing we have done is we have applied for and gotten a personal loan from one of our banks. You may have to pledge something for it or maybe nothing. We had the option of stretching out the payments to 5 years on that loan but the rate is 7-8%. Check with your banks about rates for personal loans. 

    We have also encouraged our tenants to take a title loan on a car. You might think about refinancing a vehicle. We have no experience with that though. 

    With a mortgage for an income property, make sure you submit your entire written and signed lease to the mortgage company/bank for them to use as extra income. After you finish your basement and have 2 tenants in your home, you should be earning a significant sum. If the tenants won't sign a 12 month lease, ask about a 6 month lease which converts to mo. to mo. after the 6 month term. If they don't want that, at bare minimum have a written month to month lease for them to sign to present to the bank.

  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Michael Vialpando so my thought would be along these lines. Do the basement finishing in small parts using cash. Save the cash from your current rent income and make another bedroom in the basement. Rent that out. Save the cash from both and make a 2nd bedroom and rent that out. Save the cash from those and make a bathroom and charge more for rent. Again save the cash and add the kitchen. Low debt and pay as you go. You can use some variation of that but you get the picture. 

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