Bye Bye Dollar, Buy Buy Gold?
Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 6 votes
Bye Bye Dollar, Buy Buy Gold?
Most Popular Reply
Member since 2019 · 226 posts · 115 votes
7yI have small gold bars that I would love to get rid of, find me a place that will take it without skimming 15% off the spot price.
88 Replies
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Syed H. Given enough time all fiat currencies will go to 0. I invest in the US because I live here.
That’s nonsense. Don’t buy into the bs the crypto world is selling you. I’m well versed in the that world and even the experts don’t believe a lot of the **** they spew out.
Originally posted by @Bryan Devitt:
@Helen De la rosa the fed is going to print money at a rate that will make QE1,2 and 3 look like they were just getting some snacks for a party. This will be a 7 course tasting menu with wine pairing. Add to that they're going to have to go to negative interest rates and all of that still won't keep us from the pain that is coming and I wouldn't keep a penny in dollars if it isn't required. On the bright side stocks won't take as much of a hit as they should because the dollar will lose so much value
If you believe that, you don’t have to keep your money in dollars. You can keep it in a bunch of different currencies or stores of value.
- Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes7y
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Bryan Devitt:
@Helen De la rosa the fed is going to print money at a rate that will make QE1,2 and 3 look like they were just getting some snacks for a party. This will be a 7 course tasting menu with wine pairing. Add to that they're going to have to go to negative interest rates and all of that still won't keep us from the pain that is coming and I wouldn't keep a penny in dollars if it isn't required. On the bright side stocks won't take as much of a hit as they should because the dollar will lose so much value
If you believe that, you don’t have to keep your money in dollars. You can keep it in a bunch of different currencies or stores of value.
IMO all currency is crap and can be manipulated at the drop of a hat, so I stay away from it unless it is indirectly (stocks, housing, etc) and even those do better when they're manipulated by the government
- Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Helen De la rosa:
US dollars still counts for the largest reserves in central banks around the world, per wikipedia quoting IMF report ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-exchange_reserves
That being said, it's worthwhile watching crazy drivers getting on the road ( like the spending deficit).
Supposedly the silver to gold ratio is at 26 year high, hope it will rebound from here... Anyway, I picked up $23k in SIVR EFT in early morning to diversify my stock holdings...https://www.bullionvault.com/gold-news/gold-silver-ratio-061220191
Mr. Warren Buffet did say in an interview that he would have picked up more real estate if to start his investment career again...
@Helen I'm confused. You seem to be seeking safety. Why are you buying ETFs?
Here is some info you might not be aware of: It's true of both Gold ETFs and Silver ETFs
"You may be surprised to learn gold ETF’s don’t give you exposure to gold – but, it’s true. The GLD prospectus states ‘’GLD represent fractional, undivided interested in the Trust.’’ When you invest in a gold ETF you are buying shares of the Trustee. Basically, you are a shareholder of the trust, not a gold holder.
As such, GLD shares represent a paper claim on gold, not gold itself. This negates a major reason for owning it – protection during crises. If the economy collapsed and brought down a part of the financial system with it, the Trustee will settle your claim in cash, not gold.
The real irony is the price of gold could be skyrocketing and the ETF’s could be going bankrupt at the same time.
Given these issues long-term investors would be wise to avoid gold ETF’s. Luckily, for those wanting to buy physical gold things have never been better."
https://www.hardassetsalliance.com/our-blog/the-nu...
What you get when you buy an ETF - Paper (Not Gold) Try getting real Gold from these characters in a crisis
What you get when you buy The Brooklyn Bridge - Paper (Not a Bridge) Try getting a real Bridge from these characters in a crisis
What you get when you buy Physical Gold - You get Gold! (Try getting . . . Oh, wait - you've already got it when you need it - Gold)
- Member since 2019 · 226 posts · 115 votes7y
this is laughable. I bought into the hype and bought some gold, can’t sell it for anywhere near the spot price. Pathetic
- Rental Property Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2015 · 490 posts · 301 votes7y
@Tom Makinen EBay. Set your own price just be aware of the PayPal fees and shipping costs.
- Member since 2019 · 226 posts · 115 votes7y
@Allan Szlafrok one chargeback on my gold bar and I am f$&@:6ed
- Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 6 votes7y
@Mike M.
Thanks a lot! Got it. Making switch today while the market is open. :)
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Helen De la rosa hasn't the dollar continue to weaken the last 40 years? It probably will continue to lose purchasing power until it goes to 0.
If you think the dollar is going to 0 than why invest in the US at all? And the dollar hasn’t weakened continually for 40 years. And a weaker dollar isn’t a bad thing. The dollar has been getting stronger not weaker.
The Dollar has lost 95% of its purchasing power since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913. If you hold real assets (oil, gold, real estate) you shouldn't care if the dollar goes to 0, or even if its replaced by another currency altogether. People who own the real assets will simply be paid in the new currency.
Originally posted by @Josh E.:
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Helen De la rosa hasn't the dollar continue to weaken the last 40 years? It probably will continue to lose purchasing power until it goes to 0.
If you think the dollar is going to 0 than why invest in the US at all? And the dollar hasn’t weakened continually for 40 years. And a weaker dollar isn’t a bad thing. The dollar has been getting stronger not weaker.
The Dollar has lost 95% of its purchasing power since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913. If you hold real assets (oil, gold, real estate) you shouldn't care if the dollar goes to 0, or even if its replaced by another currency altogether. People who own the real assets will simply be paid in the new currency.
This is such a simplistic view of monetary policy and of the past 100 years. This whole thread is laughable. Stop buying into all the fearmongering.
Monetary inflation is not a bad thing. Weakened dollar is not a bad thing. CPI calculations have also been changed multiple times since 1913. Also incomes have skyrocketed since 1913. You can’t compare an economy of extremely low wages, when women couldn’t even work, to today. Even though the dollar has “weakened”, purchasing power has more than doubled in the same period.
Even though the dollar has technically gotten weaker in the long term, it is pretty strong right now which is actually hurting our net exports.
Also for all the pessimists, if the US currency collapsed tomorrow, so would the rule of law. The economy would collapse. Your real estate would be worthless.Holding gold isn’t smart for anyone besides the Uber wealthy. It’s almost as bad as keeping your money in a checking account. It is just an inflationary hedge.
- Rental Property Investor · Neenah, WI · Member since 2019 · 154 posts · 105 votes7y
IMHO Gold (GLD or physical) is a good non-correlated addition to a person's portfolio. I have anywhere between 5-10% allocated at any given time. I also own REITs and will be investing in properties soon. Diversity is the key. My 2 cents for what it's worth.
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Josh E.:
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Helen De la rosa hasn't the dollar continue to weaken the last 40 years? It probably will continue to lose purchasing power until it goes to 0.
If you think the dollar is going to 0 than why invest in the US at all? And the dollar hasn’t weakened continually for 40 years. And a weaker dollar isn’t a bad thing. The dollar has been getting stronger not weaker.
The Dollar has lost 95% of its purchasing power since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913. If you hold real assets (oil, gold, real estate) you shouldn't care if the dollar goes to 0, or even if its replaced by another currency altogether. People who own the real assets will simply be paid in the new currency.
This is such a simplistic view of monetary policy and of the past 100 years. This whole thread is laughable. Stop buying into all the fearmongering.
Monetary inflation is not a bad thing. Weakened dollar is not a bad thing. CPI calculations have also been changed multiple times since 1913. Also incomes have skyrocketed since 1913. You can’t compare an economy of extremely low wages, when women couldn’t even work, to today. Even though the dollar has “weakened”, purchasing power has more than doubled in the same period.
Even though the dollar has technically gotten weaker in the long term, it is pretty strong right now which is actually hurting our net exports.
Also for all the pessimists, if the US currency collapsed tomorrow, so would the rule of law. The economy would collapse. Your real estate would be worthless.Holding gold isn’t smart for anyone besides the Uber wealthy. It’s almost as bad as keeping your money in a checking account. It is just an inflationary hedge.
The dollar is strong because every other central bank is the world is expanding its balance sheet at an even more rapid rate than the Fed. It's a race to the bottom. There's also an artificially high demand for dollars across the globe, with the dollar being the reserve currency, oil being traded in dollars, etc.
Real estate would not be worthless if the US currency collapses. The world wouldn't stop spinning, but quality of life would decrease drastically in the U.S. People would still need a place to live and pay rent in the new currency. Would there be social unrest? Probably, and it would probably even be pretty extreme.
We've never been in this situation in modern history, with extreme levels of debt and low rates, so nobody really knows how it's going to end. Holding gold, if you're high net worth, is a prudent move.
Originally posted by @Josh E.:
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Josh E.:
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Helen De la rosa hasn't the dollar continue to weaken the last 40 years? It probably will continue to lose purchasing power until it goes to 0.
If you think the dollar is going to 0 than why invest in the US at all? And the dollar hasn’t weakened continually for 40 years. And a weaker dollar isn’t a bad thing. The dollar has been getting stronger not weaker.
The Dollar has lost 95% of its purchasing power since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913. If you hold real assets (oil, gold, real estate) you shouldn't care if the dollar goes to 0, or even if its replaced by another currency altogether. People who own the real assets will simply be paid in the new currency.
This is such a simplistic view of monetary policy and of the past 100 years. This whole thread is laughable. Stop buying into all the fearmongering.
Monetary inflation is not a bad thing. Weakened dollar is not a bad thing. CPI calculations have also been changed multiple times since 1913. Also incomes have skyrocketed since 1913. You can’t compare an economy of extremely low wages, when women couldn’t even work, to today. Even though the dollar has “weakened”, purchasing power has more than doubled in the same period.
Even though the dollar has technically gotten weaker in the long term, it is pretty strong right now which is actually hurting our net exports.
Also for all the pessimists, if the US currency collapsed tomorrow, so would the rule of law. The economy would collapse. Your real estate would be worthless.Holding gold isn’t smart for anyone besides the Uber wealthy. It’s almost as bad as keeping your money in a checking account. It is just an inflationary hedge.
The dollar is strong because every other central bank is the world is expanding its balance sheet at an even more rapid rate than the Fed. It's a race to the bottom. There's also an artificially high demand for dollars across the globe, with the dollar being the reserve currency, oil being traded in dollars, etc.
Real estate would not be worthless if the US currency collapses. The world wouldn't stop spinning, but quality of life would decrease drastically in the U.S. People would still need a place to live and pay rent in the new currency. Would there be social unrest? Probably, and it would probably even be pretty extreme.
We've never been in this situation in modern history, with extreme levels of debt and low rates, so nobody really knows how it's going to end. Holding gold, if you're high net worth, is a prudent move.
I could dispute everything you stated, but there’s no point. You can believe in the doom & gloom. I’ve heard it over & over for years, in multiple cycles. I’ll keep making money through the ups & downs.
- Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Tom Makinen:
@Allan Szlafrok one chargeback on my gold bar and I am f$&@:6ed
Gold is a defense against the dollar dropping in value. The dollar has not dropped in value.
Never buy bars. Buy gold coins.
The idea with gold is to hang on to it for a lifetime or until needed in an emergency. If you think you will need to convert it to cash in the next couple of years, it isn't the right place to park your money.
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Helen De la rosa hasn't the dollar continue to weaken the last 40 years? It probably will continue to lose purchasing power until it goes to 0.
If you think the dollar is going to 0 than why invest in the US at all? And the dollar hasn’t weakened continually for 40 years. And a weaker dollar isn’t a bad thing. The dollar has been getting stronger not weaker.
Personally I think the $USD is somewhat safe, but it's that "somewhat" that would cause me to want metals or property or "stuff" over liquidity (beyond what I need to keep on hand to buy when deals come up)
Yes, the $UDS is strong vs. others but it's almost almost guaranteed to lose purchasing power. Look at the purchasing power over the last 80 years. It's a straight line down. I think it's lost like 90% of it's buying power. It's baked into the cake. You can almost be guaranteed that your purchase power will slowly go down (which means, by default, "stuff" goes up in price vs. $USD).
So with that in mind, why invest in $UDS by holding onto tons of it vs. holding onto stuff. Esp given the return you get on $USD (interest) vs. the return you get on literally almost anything else.Originally posted by @Helen De la rosa:
@Account Closed still trying to figure out what to do...yesterday and today, I did pick up some BAR ( one of the gold ETFs ) and SIVR ( one of the silver ETFs) in my portfolio when the market dipped...
On the real estate investment, my option/vision list keeps growing , lol
option 1 - get a few more SFR and rent to S8
option 2 - how about multi-family units?
option 3 - how about getting some land and build a fourplex?
option 4 - how about just jump into the crowd-street and pool in there?
...
Do I draw a 2-hour driving radius within Houston so I can go check on my property?
Do I venture out to San Antonio? How about Austin?
BTW, did you get a chance to read the June 25th CBO The 2019 Long-Term Budget Outlook?
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55331
Good news is that 2019 deficit forecast would be under $1 trillion , bad news is the forecast was showing starting in 2022, the deficit will be above $1 trillion ( $1,000,000,000,000, yeah, 1 with 12 zeros) and keep growing.
Year 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025 2026 2027 2028 2029 Deficit (-) or Surplus -779 -896 -892 -962 -1,116 -1,122 -1,071 -1,189 -1,179 -1,162 -1,399 -1,310 Stop buying ETFs. If you want to buy gold or sillver, buy gold or silver. That way you don't have just one benefit (purchase power protection / inflation hedge) but you have "SHTF" insurance.
I have 0 gold / silver stocks. But I have a safe full of metal I can hold. There is a saying "If you can't hold it you don't own it"
Originally posted by @Tom Makinen:
this is laughable. I bought into the hype and bought some gold, can’t sell it for anywhere near the spot price. Pathetic
Sure you can. Don't lie. I just said I'd buy as much as you have at spot. Seriously. I'll take it all. So will others.
Yes, a retail store won't buy at spot, just like they won't sell at spot. They have to buy below and sell over to keep their doors open. But that's the same thing with EVERYTHING. A store buys at wholesale and sells at retail.
Originally posted by @Cody L.:
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Helen De la rosa hasn't the dollar continue to weaken the last 40 years? It probably will continue to lose purchasing power until it goes to 0.
If you think the dollar is going to 0 than why invest in the US at all? And the dollar hasn’t weakened continually for 40 years. And a weaker dollar isn’t a bad thing. The dollar has been getting stronger not weaker.
Personally I think the $USD is somewhat safe, but it's that "somewhat" that would cause me to want metals or property or "stuff" over liquidity (beyond what I need to keep on hand to buy when deals come up)
Yes, the $UDS is strong vs. others but it's almost almost guaranteed to lose purchasing power. Look at the purchasing power over the last 80 years. It's a straight line down. I think it's lost like 90% of it's buying power. It's baked into the cake. You can almost be guaranteed that your purchase power will slowly go down (which means, by default, "stuff" goes up in price vs. $USD).
So with that in mind, why invest in $UDS by holding onto tons of it vs. holding onto stuff. Esp given the return you get on $USD (interest) vs. the return you get on literally almost anything else.The whole 95% devaluation statistic that Ron Paul started campaigning on is very misleading & is meaningless. This is the same nonsense that crypto fanboys keep spreading so they can do another pump and dump of their coins.
& of course holding cash long term isn't a good idea. But in downturns, liquidity is king. Only gold and hard cash are valuable in a downturn. Those stocks and other investments become mostly illiquid. Even if you have a large RE portfolio, if there is a downturn, liquidity is gone. Can't buy anything with RE or most other investments.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Cody L.:
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Helen De la rosa hasn't the dollar continue to weaken the last 40 years? It probably will continue to lose purchasing power until it goes to 0.
If you think the dollar is going to 0 than why invest in the US at all? And the dollar hasn’t weakened continually for 40 years. And a weaker dollar isn’t a bad thing. The dollar has been getting stronger not weaker.
Personally I think the $USD is somewhat safe, but it's that "somewhat" that would cause me to want metals or property or "stuff" over liquidity (beyond what I need to keep on hand to buy when deals come up)
Yes, the $UDS is strong vs. others but it's almost almost guaranteed to lose purchasing power. Look at the purchasing power over the last 80 years. It's a straight line down. I think it's lost like 90% of it's buying power. It's baked into the cake. You can almost be guaranteed that your purchase power will slowly go down (which means, by default, "stuff" goes up in price vs. $USD).
So with that in mind, why invest in $UDS by holding onto tons of it vs. holding onto stuff. Esp given the return you get on $USD (interest) vs. the return you get on literally almost anything else.The whole 95% devaluation statistic that Ron Paul started campaigning on is very misleading & is meaningless. This is the same nonsense that crypto fanboys keep spreading so they can do another pump and dump of their coins.
& of course holding cash long term isn't a good idea. But in downturns, liquidity is king. Only gold and hard cash are valuable in a downturn. Those stocks and other investments become mostly illiquid. Even if you have a large RE portfolio, if there is a downturn, liquidity is gone. Can't buy anything with RE or most other investments.
Michael Burry is buying water and water rights.. !!
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Cody L.:
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Helen De la rosa hasn't the dollar continue to weaken the last 40 years? It probably will continue to lose purchasing power until it goes to 0.
If you think the dollar is going to 0 than why invest in the US at all? And the dollar hasn’t weakened continually for 40 years. And a weaker dollar isn’t a bad thing. The dollar has been getting stronger not weaker.
Personally I think the $USD is somewhat safe, but it's that "somewhat" that would cause me to want metals or property or "stuff" over liquidity (beyond what I need to keep on hand to buy when deals come up)
Yes, the $UDS is strong vs. others but it's almost almost guaranteed to lose purchasing power. Look at the purchasing power over the last 80 years. It's a straight line down. I think it's lost like 90% of it's buying power. It's baked into the cake. You can almost be guaranteed that your purchase power will slowly go down (which means, by default, "stuff" goes up in price vs. $USD).
So with that in mind, why invest in $UDS by holding onto tons of it vs. holding onto stuff. Esp given the return you get on $USD (interest) vs. the return you get on literally almost anything else.The whole 95% devaluation statistic that Ron Paul started campaigning on is very misleading & is meaningless. This is the same nonsense that crypto fanboys keep spreading so they can do another pump and dump of their coins.
& of course holding cash long term isn't a good idea. But in downturns, liquidity is king. Only gold and hard cash are valuable in a downturn. Those stocks and other investments become mostly illiquid. Even if you have a large RE portfolio, if there is a downturn, liquidity is gone. Can't buy anything with RE or most other investments.
Luckily I'm not really here for a debate. I just try to answer questions best I can with my own opinions and what's worked for me. If someone says "You're dumb, Gold is stupid", I'll be like "okay man. Sounds good". I'll continue to do what I do :)
- Member since 2019 · 226 posts · 115 votes7y
@Cody L. I will reach out when I am back from my vacation, I would offload my gold and silver if I can get near spot price in cash for it. I am in Bay area. They just take up space in my safe since insurance won't cover it!
If there is hyperinflation, I guess that could mean my house would be paid off pretty quickly too :)
Gold hasn't even kept up with inflation. Crap I actually lost money on it, forget about the commission and the mark up and all that.
1100 2013 2% inflation per year 1122 2014 1155.66 2015 1190.33 2016 1226.04 2017 1262.821 2018 1300.706 2019 At the next zombie apocalypse. I would love to see what kind of value the sharks offer you for your 1 oz of gold. I am guessing it might be a better deal to buy a bunker, store a few years worth of water and RTE meals in there than to keep buying gold for that day to come.
- Member since 2019 · 226 posts · 115 votes7y
@Helen De la rosa I can't believe you listen to everything the "guru" puts out. Yeah a primary residence isn't an asset. What is your alternative solution? Living in a trailer in a mobile home? Share the house with 5 different strangers? You have kids, they are financial draining, let's get rid of them too while you are at it. It makes no sense. As a parent, I would rather work hard, pay a little money, put them in a good school than to worry about the $1000 I might not get to make. I hope by investing in their future, I will somehow get paid back.
529 has a lower yield than universal life insurance plan. While it isn't worth it, but I kept mine as another alternative investment vehicle. It's better to have 10 vehicles going at the same time than ride 1 or 2.
- Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 6 votes7y
@Tom Makinen Financial Literacy is a journey itself, one reads and reflects and tries ones best to apply the learning to grow one's financial assets.
BP community is such a welcoming place where gurus are sharing their success stories to inspire/help other amateur to achieve financial success.
Real Estate is one of the very important investment vehicles. The point about primary residence is about opportunity cost - I paid off the ~4% mortgage because my money was making somewhat 1% or less sitting in the bank. Now with more knowledge about investment opportunities, I can start pondering about HELOC to leverage...
I would have invested in IUL or UL instead of 529 if I had known about the insurance products earlier. Now my kids have their own IUL , locked in their insurability plus putting the power of compound to work for them at age 6 and 7. Same goes with investing in a IUL/UL+LTC/ABR instead of buying a stand alone LTC, now I know more about these products after getting my life insurance agent license.
May the force be with the BP Community :-)
- Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 6 votes7y
@Cody L. Thanks for sharing the additional insights! I think I am going with Kitco - Robert Kiyosaki did a few interviews there, and their quotes look competitive.
Taking control of my investment/ re-balancing/ diversifying has been my primary focus now, after churning through Morgan Stanley and Fidelity financial advisory services the past few years and couldn't even beat inflation when relying on others to manage...
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