$10,000 SBA Loan / Grant

$10,000 SBA Loan / Grant

Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Anyone else applying for an SBA Economic Injury Disaster Loan? Based on what I've read in the Stimulus Bill we all might be eligible for a 10k grant advance.

"(e) Emergency grant

(1) In general: During the covered period, an entity included for eligibility in subsection (b), including small business concerns, private nonprofit organizations, and small agricultural cooperatives, that applies for a loan under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(2)) in response to COVID–19 may request that the Administrator provide an advance that is, subject to paragraph (3), in the amount requested by such applicant to such applicant within 3 days after the Administrator receives an application from such applicant.

(2)Verification: Before disbursing amounts under this subsection, the Administrator shall verify that the applicant is an eligible entity by accepting a self-certification from the applicant under penalty of perjury pursuant to section 1746 of title 28 United States Code.

(3) Amount: The amount of an advance provided under this subsection shall be not more than $10,000.

(4) Use of funds: An advance provided under this subsection may be used to address any allowable purpose for a loan made under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(2)), including—

(A) providing paid sick leave to employees unable to work due to the direct effect of the COVID–19;

(B) maintaining payroll to retain employees during business disruptions or substantial slowdowns;

(C) meeting increased costs to obtain materials unavailable from the applicant’s original source due to interrupted supply chains;

(D) making rent or mortgage payments; and

(E) repaying obligations that cannot be met due to revenue losses."

Those that are interested I applied at the sba.gov website 

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Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
6y

Alright, I have an update, well, sort of. So I called the 1800 number of the SBA and talked to a rep after waiting about 1 hour. She was relatively nice. Following is the conversation:

Me: So I submitted the application Tuesday and I requested the $10,000 advance grant. Today's Friday. Where's my money, dawg? (just kidding, I did not say that last sentence)

Rep: It will take about 3 weeks before you get an email about your eligibility. 

Me: Huh? But Congress says 3 days in the law?

Rep: Well, the 3 days begins when we accept your application and process your eligibility , not when you submit it. (Now, I disagree. I think she's wrong, or the SBA is wrong). 

Me: OK, but Congress also said, I can still get the advance as a grant, even if I am later denied the loan. 

Rep: That is correct. That sure is a possibility (now we were on the phone, but I pretty sure I detected a "wink wink" here)

Me: So then why does it take 3 weeks? 

Rep: Because it does. Just keep watching your email and phone. They may email or phone you. 

Me: But I still don't understand... 

Rep: IT TAKES 3 WEEKS. KEEP WATCHING EMAILS. 

Me: Alright....

I am posting the text of the bill directly from Congress, and bold the relevant parts:

(e) Emergency Grant.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—During the covered period, an entity included for eligibility in subsection (b), including small business concerns, private nonprofit organizations, and small agricultural cooperatives, that applies for a loan under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(2)) in response to COVID–19 may request that the Administrator provide an advance that is, subject to paragraph (3), in the amount requested by such applicant to such applicant within 3 days after the Administrator receives an application from such applicant.

(2) VERIFICATION.—Before disbursing amounts under this subsection, the Administrator shall verify that the applicant is an eligible entity by accepting a self-certification from the applicant under penalty of perjury pursuant to section 1746 of title 28 United States Code.

(3) AMOUNT.—The amount of an advance provided under this subsection shall be not more than $10,000.

(4) USE OF FUNDS.—An advance provided under this subsection may be used to address any allowable purpose for a loan made under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(2)), including—

(A) providing paid sick leave to employees unable to work due to the direct effect of the COVID–19;

(B) maintaining payroll to retain employees during business disruptions or substantial slowdowns;

(C) meeting increased costs to obtain materials unavailable from the applicant’s original source due to interrupted supply chains;

(D) making rent or mortgage payments; and

(E) repaying obligations that cannot be met due to revenue losses.

(5) REPAYMENT.—An applicant shall not be required to repay any amounts of an advance provided under this subsection, even if subsequently denied a loan under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(

So, I think the SBA is full of crap. They are putting up red tapes that are nowhere to be found in the laws while Congress has written the laws in so black and white that it doesn't even leave any room for interpretation. So right now the SBA is saying:

1) We haven't received your application. It is not "received" until we review it. 

-> No way. The text of the law says nothing about reviewing. "within 3 days after the Administrator receives an application from such applicant". We have a confirmation number. That mean SBA receives it. Period. 

2) What is this reviewing for eligibility crap? Congress also says in black and white: "the Administrator shall verify that the applicant is an eligible entity by accepting a self-certification from the applicant under penalty of perjury". 

-> We DID that self-certification in the application itself. That should be all that is required. 

--> Bottom line: I think they're playing games with us and the SBA is blatantly defying Congress. 

I think I am going to start writing to my Senators and Representatives. Let's make some noise

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  • Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    PSA: I refer to “the SBA loan” however this is misleading. There are 2 loan programs through the SBA

    Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) has a 10k advance that may or may not need to be repaid. Beyond the 10k the loan is just that, money that will have to be paid back with interest. 

    Payroll Protection Plan: is a loan that when used to pay specific expenses (payroll) it is forgiveable. 

    I hope this is clear as mud. Good luck everyone!

  • Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Zach Fetcko thank you for that info! Your explanation is way more professional than mine !

  • Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I applied yesterday and have not even seen an email to verify I applied.  Has anyone received verification of thier application or communication of any kind?

  • Accountant · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Lesley Resnick No. I haven’t received any sort of verification that it was received or has been processed. I will update if I do. 

  • Accountant · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Gregory Schwartz. Thanks but that is all copied straight from the senate website. There is so much misinformation going around it is scary. https://www.sbc.senate.gov/pub...

  • Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Lesley Resnick i applied on Saturday the 28th (using the print out PDF) then again with the new online streamlined application on Monday. No confirmation but based on the 3 day requirement I should be seeing some money no later than tomorrow afternoon. I'll let you know.

    @Zach Fetcko the unfortunate part is that bankers, CPAs, business coaches are all very confused. Making it very difficult for the average joe small business owner. Like you, I prefer to go to the source. 

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Henry Lazerow:

    Are you sure this is a grant as in does NOT need to be paid back? It sounds like it will only be "forgiven" if you have employees on payroll?

     The correct answer is no one knows for sure. See, I've been reading this thing for the last 2 days and there are two programs: 

    1) The PPP (Payroll Protection Program): this is a newly created program through the CARES Act. You apply through your local Bank/Lending Institution just like other SBA program. The main feature of this program is the money the business use to pay payrolls, rents, mortgages ... or pretty anything being affected by COVID-19, will be forgiven. The string attached is also the business cannot lay off and severely lower the salary of their employees. You will have to apply later with the bank to get the forgiveness, with documentations that employees were still employed, payroll was still made and rents/mortgages were paid, ... Any portion not used for any of those purposes will be treated as a normal loan. 

    2)Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL): This is an existing program. Previously, it can be used when there was a disaster (hurricanes, tsunami, wild fires, ... ). The businesses in the state or locality affected by the disaster can apply for loans. The CARES Act declares COVID-19 is a disaster and all 50 states and territories are affected by this disaster. So this is a loan and you can apply for it. This is directly applied to the SBA and the max is 2 million, blah blah blah...

    The most interesting thing about this though, is the CARES Act authorizes 10 billion dollars designated for "EIDL Emergency Grants". These grants can be up to $10,000 a pop and have to be paid within 3 days. In order to get the grant, you have to apply for the EIDL loan, and within that application, request to have the emergency grant. The interesting thing is it proceeds to say that the grant does NOT have to be repaid under any circumstances, even if the person or business is denied the EIDL loans. It does say that the grants money should be used to pay payroll, rents, mortgages, ... blah blah but no mention of any forgiveness needed. 

    So, my conclusion: the word "grant" means "not a loan" + it specifically says several times "does not need to repaid" + "no forgiveness needed" = This is free money! That's just my take. 

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Lesley Resnick:

    I applied yesterday and have not even seen an email to verify I applied.  Has anyone received verification of thier application or communication of any kind?

     I applied yesterday too. I don't think there is an email verification. There is only the verification page at the end. I printed that. It has an application number. 

    Also, if I interpret the application number correctly, for example, mine was 3300614875 (not really mine, but the format is the same), I am application # 614,875. Remember, there is only 10 billion available funds for this, if they give $10,000 a pop, there is only enough for 1 million application, first come, first served. So people, apply NOW. That number was about 10 AM yesterday. 

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Gregory Schwartz:

    PSA: I refer to “the SBA loan” however this is misleading. There are 2 loan programs through the SBA

    Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) has a 10k advance that may or may not need to be repaid. Beyond the 10k the loan is just that, money that will have to be paid back with interest. 

    Payroll Protection Plan: is a loan that when used to pay specific expenses (payroll) it is forgiveable. 

    I hope this is clear as mud. Good luck everyone!

    My interpretation of the 10 k is that is may not need to be prepaid. Many postings from multiple Senator's offices state the same in black and white that "it does not need to be repaid under any circumstances, even the EIDL itself is not approved later." It does say the money has to be used to pay mortgages, rents, payrolls,... but it offers no repaying clause like the PPP. 

  • Accountant · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    Also note the wording is up to $10,000 so I am assuming not $10k a pop but we will see. 

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Zach Fetcko:

    Also note the wording is up to $10,000 so I am assuming not $10k a pop but we will see. 

     Understood. At this point, I'll take anything. I don't know if this ever happened to you guys, but one of my tenants just basically abandoned her unit and left in the middle of the night without a word. So 2 out of my 3 rentals are vacant... not good... 

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 124 posts · 38 votes
    6y

    @Gregory Schwartz

    I did apply yesterday. Frankly I don’t expect it come quickly if it does come.

  • David GoodmanBusiness Member
    Realtor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2020 · 172 posts · 92 votes
    6y

    You can either get do the $10k loan or the PPP (Paycheck Protection Program). Since It's unclear whether or not the $10k is forgiven, I'll be going with the PPP application. For more info check out

    https://www.sba.gov/funding-pr...

    I received this from my lender who's been approved to do these loans. The first couple paragraphs are useful


    PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM (PPP) INFORMATION SHEET:

    BORROWERS

    The Paycheck Protection Program (“PPP”) authorizes up to $349 billion in forgivable loans to small businesses to pay their employees during the COVID-19 crisis. All loan terms will be the same for everyone.

    The loan amounts will be forgiven as long as:

     The loan proceeds are used to cover payroll costs, and most mortgage interest, rent, and utility costs over the 8 week period after the loan is made; and

     Employee and compensation levels are maintained.

    Payroll costs are capped at $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee. Due to likely high subscription, it is anticipated that not more than 25% of the forgiven amount may be for non-payroll costs.

    Loan payments will be deferred for 6 months.

    When can I apply?

     Starting April 3, 2020, small businesses and sole proprietorships can apply for and receive loans to cover their payroll and other certain expenses through existing SBA lenders.

     Starting April 10, 2020, independent contractors and self-employed individuals can apply for and receive loans to cover their payroll and other certain expenses through existing SBA lenders.

     Other regulated lenders will be available to make these loans as soon as they are approved and enrolled in the program

  • Niskayuna, NY 12309 · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    I want to thank everyone on this conversation thread for helping me to understand the need to act on the excellent advise shared today.

    Just finished applying for the $10K Loan/Grant. Does anyone one know why they need to pull credit? Will this be a hard or soft pull? I'm in the process getting financing via hard money lender...will this reduce our credit score. They are pulling the credit scores of the owners, not the business. We have an LLC. Did I misunderstand the evaluation process?

    I also had a contractor call me out of the blue to ask if I would help him apply for all of the opportunities...his payroll  was over $315,000 last year.  He does not have the time.  What should I charge for this assistance?  Rate per hour, flat fee? 

    Thank you!

  • Accountant · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed I would assume is needing the PPP. If you assist in filing my understanding is that you are given a cut of the banks fees and that amount is set by the CARES Act. 

  • Aliso Viejo, CA · Member since 2014 · 24 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    A couple questions:

    1.  What did you guys put as your cost of goods sold for rentals? Are those all rental expenses including mortgage but excluding depreciation? 

    2. For the loses, did you put what rent you currently lost or what you intend to lose? I have around 32 properties so I'm bound to lose close to $10,000 but perhaps I should wait until I have actually lost that amount before applying for the grant?  So far I have lost $350 confirmed but know the amount will be much higher shortly. 

  • Accountant · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Josef Torkelsen

    I put 0 for COGS. Not sure if that is correct but technically we don’t sell goods. I wouldn’t wait to apply. There are already more than 1m applications submitted so there is some urgency needed as the grant funds could possibly be dried up already. 

  • Lender · Central Florida Markets · Member since 2017 · 137 posts · 135 votes
    6y

    @Sam Cherry for those who run Airbnb s and receive a 1099k at end of year you too can apply for an SBA loan

  • Akron, OH · Member since 2015 · 178 posts · 189 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Rouer:

    @Gregory Schwartz

    I only have one tenant unable to pay so far. I anticipate it snowballing. SBA asks how much $ you’re out due to the virus. Would I put $1500 for the one month I’m down so far or how do they expect us to guess? We’re just beginning this...

    As a business consultant, I come up with answers like this all the time.

    Often, there is no one "right" answer. The response has to be reasonable, though.

    A reasonable answer for this is not just one month. The industry AVERAGE time to fill a vacancy is what? I don't know. If I had to pick a number, I would say three (3) months. That's reasonable. it's an average. Of course, you can have some dream situations. But, balance that out with the nightmare situations. Three (3) months is VERY reasonable.

  • Attorney · Miami, FL · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 113 votes
    6y

    I applied today with the 10k advance. I'll see what happens. I already have tenants saying they cant pay all of April. 

  • Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 91 votes
    6y

    Internal Revenue Code (IRC) 101

    To understand what Department of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT provides relieve you must understand the IRC.

    SCHEDULE C (Employers) are the responsibility of the Dept of Commerce and therefore the SBA. This is why the Treasury Secretary and President keep talking about Employers keeping EMPLOYEES on the payroll.

    SCHEDULE F (Farmers) are the responsibility of the Dept of Agriculture. Farm aid is doled out by that agency.

    SCHEDULE E (Landlords) are the responsibility of the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

    This is why the SBA Loan application doesn't make sense.

    As landlords we deal with Gross Rents not Cost of Goods Sold and Gross Revenues.

    You need to call your representative and tell them to get the Department of Housing and Urban Development to make emergency changes to the Section 8 program.

    That is how it is done for Landlords

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Sam Cherry:

    Internal Revenue Code (IRC) 101

    To understand what Department of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT provides relieve you must understand the IRC.

    SCHEDULE C (Employers) are the responsibility of the Dept of Commerce and therefore the SBA. This is why the Treasury Secretary and President keep talking about Employers keeping EMPLOYEES on the payroll.

    SCHEDULE F (Farmers) are the responsibility of the Dept of Agriculture. Farm aid is doled out by that agency.

    SCHEDULE E (Landlords) are the responsibility of the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

    This is why the SBA Loan application doesn't make sense.

    As landlords we deal with Gross Rents not Cost of Goods Sold and Gross Revenues.

    You need to call your representative and tell them to get the Department of Housing and Urban Development to make emergency changes to the Section 8 program.

    That is how it is done for Landlords

     In the application itself for the EDLI, there was a question that asks specifically "What is your loss of rental income"

  • Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 91 votes
    6y

    Again, if I am wrong I am wrong, but the application I reviewed was loss or revenue and cost of goods sold.

    I am not saying this will not be of assistance, however the Federal Government needs to help landlords in another fashion.

    If people understand how government works then they will understand how to propose solutions that are viable.

    I hope this works for people, however based on my personal experience you may be expecting something that isn't help at all.

    I know people are going to experience a loss.  

    This is why others are asking for the "loss of use" provision to be opened to this "disaster" to be paid under their insurance policy and then the Insurance Company is re-imbursed by the federal government.

    There are various solutions proposed.

    The SBA is the only game in town, however I am proposing a solution that is Landlord centric.

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Sam Cherry:

    Again, if I am wrong I am wrong, but the application I reviewed was loss or revenue and cost of goods sold.

    I am not saying this will not be of assistance, however the Federal Government needs to help landlords in another fashion.

    If people understand how government works then they will understand how to propose solutions that are viable.

    I hope this works for people, however based on my personal experience you may be expecting something that isn't help at all.

    I know people are going to experience a loss.  

    This is why others are asking for the "loss of use" provision to be opened to this "disaster" to be paid under their insurance policy and then the Insurance Company is re-imbursed by the federal government.

    There are various solutions proposed.

    The SBA is the only game in town, however I am proposing a solution that is Landlord centric.

    Oh, I agree with you 100%. Sorry, I didn't mean to sound that what you suggested was not valid. It was a great idea. 

    It just looks to me this "grant" is essentially free money and I would hate for someone to miss it if it indeed would help. 

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y

    Well, today is Thursday. Did anyone who applied over the weekend or Monday receive anything? 

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