Follow up to WHY DO WE INVEST with some retirement #'s

Follow up to WHY DO WE INVEST with some retirement #'s

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I posted a thread a few days ago called why do we invest? There were a lot of good replies on that thread with many bigger pockets members listing their goal of 5000, 10,000, 12,000, or $20,000, per month for retirement purposes. I've always felt these annual magazine articles stating you need X amount in assets and x amount in monthly income a joke. They always seem extremely high to me. I realize your location for retirement and also your housing can cause this to vary greatly. What I don't want to see is young investors on bigger pockets thinking they have this giant mountain to climb before retirement is possible. As many know, I retired at a very early age and have been able to travel extensively and spend lots of money. That was my choice and I had the ability to do it. Others will make that same choice. I just want you to know from a personal experience, there are other ways and goals to shoot for. These require much less in funds and can be very enjoyable.

I am currently retired and living a possible lifestyle for less than $3000 per month. This is by choice, not by necessity. I choose to be frugal and place most discretionary funds in a trust for grandkids.

In the previous thread, most of the responses were to create assets, and passive income to live the life we want with only working when and if we choose.

Here is a tried and proven lifestyle on less than $3000 per month. This is NOT for everyone, but the process will work. No need for 5000, 10,000, 12,000, or $20,000 cash per month and still have a great time. No daytime TV and no rocking chair!

I decided to spend six months a year in northern California near Eureka California.NOT FOR EVERYONE!!!

Retirement should be enjoyable and for that you must remain healthy. I'm a lousy eater – recovering food addict. My avatar on bigger pockets does not lie. At one time I weighed 362 pounds and now 148. I need to stay active to keep the weight off. Currently, I participate in softball, golf and pickle ball – at least two of the 3 sports 6 days a week. My weight stays under control. For me, this is most important.

Why Eureka California? I found a spectacular private golf course, Redwood Empire golf and country club and the best part is the cost! With less than 400 members you never really need a tee time and 80° or less 365 days a year. The costs will follow for unlimited golf.

I also play for an over 60-year-old softball team with games twice a week and also play on a weekend traveling softball team when asked, and travel to other parts of California and Southern Oregon. Pickle ball is 2 to 3 hours every day six days a week. Google it – it is the fastest growing sport in the United States and it is great for all ages and easier on knees and hips for old farts like me.

You didn't see any daytime TV or a rocking chair in my activities!

What does this retirement cost? Since I only spend six months here, (it could be full-time if I didn't want to be married any longer than 43 years) I wanted a place in a retired community for security while home is vacant and selected a mobile home park.(NOT FOR EVERYONE). I purchased a 1200 ft.² double wide for $19,000 and added $5000 in additions and repairs for a total investment of $24,000. My space rent is $419 per month and my monthly utilities including cable and Internet dish TV etc. is $400 a month average. It is less than 1 mile to golf course and I play every morning at 6:30 to start my day!

Here are my monthly prorated expenses for this lifestyle.

$419 space rent
$400 utilities
ZERO golf one time fee
$170 unlimited golf monthly dues for family (wife and I)Includes a Pool.
$55 golf cart unlimited usage
$15 unlimited driving range usage
$600 food – this is a guesstimate and may be considerably less.
$100 entertainment
$400 insurances and medicine (now on medicare with the extras included)
$30 property taxes (remember this is personal property so taxes are very low)
$12 mobile home annual registration
$9 pickle ball indoor club
$150 fuel (I just bought a 1990 Suzuki's Swift on craigslist for $2200 – 44 mpg)
$35 vehicle registrations in South Dakota(only counting two of five vehicles)

$2395 (this is based on two people, two vehicles etc.)
I know I've missed some items since I did this quickly. Feel free to point those out and I'll add them. There is still $605 remaining of the $3000. This is assuming no federal income taxes (on low income of 36,000 per year) and no state income taxes (domiciled in South Dakota).

This is not hell where I live. I should add this location is 20 miles from the redwoods area and national parks on the coast of CA (they are all over my golf course) 1/2 mile from the Eel River for fishing, and 7 miles from the Pacific Ocean. Again, NOT FOR EVERYONE. I know that many on bigger pockets would never consider a mobile home but I'm having a ball! I don't actually spend much time in my Taj Mahal but prefer to spend the time outdoors. It can be done.

If I didn't mind the Arizona summer heat, I could do the same thing there in a place located in Casa Grande Arizona for a bit less and have better access to airports for travel. I'm not as interested in travel anymore having been to 47 United States, 105 foreign countries, and fully enjoyed 42 cruises. People all have different travel interests. That would certainly cause a difference in monthly expenses in your retirement. I don't have a lot of time for it anymore either!

I wanted to follow-up the previous thread with these numbers because I don't want novice investors thinking the retirement mountain is impossible to climb. A higher retirement number is certainly a great goal and if reached, as some have mentioned, you may choose to not spend it all on your self and use a good portion for church, humanitarian purposes, donations, or a trust for your future generations, etc. I find this extremely rewarding.

Feel free to chime in on my numbers or your own or your aunt like Jeff S did about his 94-year-old aunt. There are many folks living like that here in the community I live in. More active than most neighborhoods I've seen.

In six years of full-time RVing, two years living with snowbirds in South Texas, two years living with snowbirds in Fort Myers Florida, and seven years of living in the winters with snowbirds in Casa Grande, Arizona, I can assure you that I have found hundreds if not thousands of couples that are extremely happy living on much less than $500,000 in assets and much less than $5000 per month of passive income. It completely depends on the type of retired lifestyle you look for and how much you plan to spend on your Taj Mahal. Rich

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Greentown, IN · Member since 2012 · 140 posts · 18 votes
13y

Rich.... I believe one could easily live a lifestyle like yours if they have the dedication and drive to want to make life affordable and fun at the same time. Too many think that retirement means vacations and sitting around relaxing. Unfortunately, they aren't planning ahead and investing wisely and many will likely end up living a meager retirement lifestyle in front of the tv.

Hubby and I have awhile before retirement. He will likely ride out the w2 job for quite awhile as he enjoys it most days and it is a swing shift, so he has some week days every week to work on projects with me. I'm currently working on our flip project, and we both run our property mgmt business.

I don't know what our passive portfolio is going to look like in the future. We haven't been as aggressive about acquiring properties as many here report they are. We have to find the right buy and be comfortable signing another loan note. I am only comfortable with so much leverage. I want to be able to live comfortable without expecting any SS, etc. It's hard to look that far ahead, yet time flies!

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  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    Rich, you forgot the car insurance and registration on the Viper. :)

    You're about 45 countries and 15 states ahead of me, I got on a cruise ship once a long time ago, no more. Charter is the way to go, IMO.

    I'm pretty frugal too, until I get a wild hair, takes more than 2K to fill up the 50' Sun Dancer, truck gets 10 mpg, down hill! $100 for entertainment? You're easy to entertain Rich, went out to the sports bar for a ball game, went out to eat, 2 of us, that was $100! I figure $100 a day on short trips to the lake, staying at the cabin. I can afford more since I didn't go to those 45 countries and other 15 states, I'd say....LOL

    I agree, get in a passive income mode, Trusts!

    Insurance is a killer with property, vehicles and toys,

    OMG, I'll never say another bad thing about cans on wheels again! LOL

    No, I think hell is in Kansas somewhere....sounds like you're in a good area, location and weather wise.

    Newbies need to understand inflation, when I began a loaf of bread was a dime, if you use todays numbers as to what you'll need in 40/45 years, you'll be in the soup line. :)

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Bill Gulley- I only used 2 vehicles as I stated. Suzyki and my 10 mpg truck I drove here to pull the U-Haul.
    In my example, insurance was cheap. Mobile home, older car,and activities rather than toys.
    I really enjoy what I'm doing now, so entertainment has been very little. No Fancy restaurants in the area, no bar tabs (As everyone knows I'm Mormon and don't drink) and remember I had $600 left over each month.
    I could use that money to fly to my Cancun Condo every couple months for a few weeks if I needed it, but didn't include that in the example.
    Thanks for the reply. I thought there would be more doubters and responders....Rich
    p.s. Played 18 this morning and time to go play 2-3 hours of pickleball-best game ever, but addicting.

  • Greentown, IN · Member since 2012 · 140 posts · 18 votes
    13y

    Rich.... I believe one could easily live a lifestyle like yours if they have the dedication and drive to want to make life affordable and fun at the same time. Too many think that retirement means vacations and sitting around relaxing. Unfortunately, they aren't planning ahead and investing wisely and many will likely end up living a meager retirement lifestyle in front of the tv.

    Hubby and I have awhile before retirement. He will likely ride out the w2 job for quite awhile as he enjoys it most days and it is a swing shift, so he has some week days every week to work on projects with me. I'm currently working on our flip project, and we both run our property mgmt business.

    I don't know what our passive portfolio is going to look like in the future. We haven't been as aggressive about acquiring properties as many here report they are. We have to find the right buy and be comfortable signing another loan note. I am only comfortable with so much leverage. I want to be able to live comfortable without expecting any SS, etc. It's hard to look that far ahead, yet time flies!

  • Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 76 posts · 35 votes
    13y

    Rich:

    I agree wholeheartedly.

    I have many friends that are retired and living comfortably off of less than $3,000/month.

    Thanks for passing on your viewpoint.

    Paul

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Over and over again I hear financial advisors say you don't want to be too frugal and end up with too much money. That to me is wrong. Having the basics covered with income and having ample cash savings to tap when something is needed is the way to go IMO. I don't want to watch assets disappears as age sets in like an hour glass that drains away over time.

  • Investor · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2012 · 366 posts · 214 votes
    13y

    Just read an article citing a recent study by Fidelity that said the average couple will need to spend $240,000 on health care AFTER age 65. Rich might be able to easily live on 3k a month but that should not be a persons goal. If you only have 3k a month coming in without adequate cash reserves you are taking your chances.

  • Greentown, IN · Member since 2012 · 140 posts · 18 votes
    13y

    IMO... if we are living well on passive income and have too much money... our kids will love us for it :)

    I would rather help them financially, than worry about working too hard for the income and never using it.

    Why not enjoy passing it on to family, or donating to our favorite causes?

    I don't understand why they would have a problem with someone having too much money at retirement... unless they are just jealous that they didn't do it themselves!

  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I am glad you're in such good health, Rich. Neither of my parents were so fortunate, and my Dad's memory care assisted living home ran close to 5k a month, and my Mom's nursing home closer to 6k. We kids were so very fortunate that my Mom had bought quality long-term care insurance, otherwise their nest egg would have been depleted in the blink of an eye. It's a downer, but it's something to think about when planning for retirement.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Suzie B- I enjoyed your post and found many positive characteristics. You are in a very positive investment area, Indiana. You are looking at retirement in a very sensible and conservative way. You are involved in doing real estate flips, and management while having a conservative attitude towards acquiring properties. You'll never get overextended in my opinion. You are smart to look at retirement years not including Social Security. In my opinion, these are all winning methods.

    Paul – thanks for adding additional people that are happy and retired on less than $3000. I wanted to make sure that individuals relatively new to investing did not think the retirement number had to be a gigantic mountain to climb.

    Jeff S – I agree with what you say about financial advisors. There is nothing wrong with having a very high goal for assets and passive income. It doesn't mean you have to spend all that money yourself and can certainly use it for many other purposes as I've tried to point out in my threads. A frugal retirement lifestyle can certainly cause that hourglass to continue to fill to overflowing rather than drain to nothing.

    Albert – it was never my goal to retire on $3000 per month. I never really thought of that number until I started seeing hundreds of people that were retired happily and living within that number. My goal was actually much higher than that and was happy to pass that number at a very young age. I do spend much more than that myself maintaining residences in three states and retirement. I still only use a portion of the passive income and any excess goes directly into the trust for the benefit of future generations beginning with my grandchildren.

    Jean Bolger – having lived most of my life as a very unhealthy weight, and having seen several good friends die at a very early age from their obesity and stress, remaining as healthy as possible is probably my number one goal. I'm sorry your parents were not able to stay healthy longer. Of course, my life has not been completely written yet so I don't know what the future holds for me either. I just know I want to stay as healthy as possible and will do the things necessary to accomplish that. I have tried to plan my estate so that nothing will drain the assets that will go toward grandkids and future generations. My wife and I have done extensive estate planning including long-term care insurance and adequate life insurance to offset any tax consequencesthat may occur upon our deaths so Trust assets pass untouched.

    There have been many excellent posts with valuable information in this thread. Hopefully, bigger pockets members will be smart enough to think about and plan for retirement purposes before it is too late to do anything about it.Just don't get depressed if you aren't reaching a gigantic # as you approach those Golden years. There are so many ways to remain happy on a smaller #, imo. Rich

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 718 posts · 913 votes
    13y

    Great insight, Rich Weese Not sure if you've seen them, but there are a number of personal finance blogs that advocate precisely what you say. (Mr. Money Mustache comes to mind.) These are by people who aim to retire in their 30s and 40s by living rich and fulfilling lives on far less than what we've taught we need. While some of their points may be a little extreme, I think the principles are sound. I've been pushing my expenses further and further down each month, not through any kind of extreme sacrifices but rather through constantly optimizing my expenses and realizing I can do with less to live a happy life. It's really liberating.

    I totally agree that people overestimate what they need to live on and retire (myself included). It's also my perception that buy and hold investors really don't need as a large of a capital base as say someone who's money is all tied up in stocks. At least in my area, a paid off SFR in decent area has anywhere from a 6-7% cap rate. That's way better than the 4% withdrawal rate advocated by most gurus.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    I retired too early, it's boring! Setting everything into an irrevocable trust is great estate planning, so long as the kid plays along, LOL. I think those that John mentioned of retiring in thier 30/40s really misses out on some personal fulfillment that comes from work, that is if you really enjoy what you do. And anyone making enough to retire that early should really be good at what they do. I know there are some trying to save themselves to wealth, many stories of the multi-millionaire shcool teacher with matress money, but live a little on the way. Enjoy! :)

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 718 posts · 913 votes
    13y

    Bill Gulley I probably misused the word "retire" The people to whom I'm referring don't sit around and engage in leisure activities all day like most people understand retirement. They seem to stay busy doing activities like investing and part-time jobs that interest them. They are really more financially independent, that is, they don't have to work if they don't want to.

  • Investor · Cypress, TX · Member since 2013 · 403 posts · 59 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Bill Gulley:
    I retired too early, it's boring! Setting everything into an irrevocable trust is great estate planning, so long as the kid plays along, LOL. I think those that John mentioned of retiring in thier 30/40s really misses out on some personal fulfillment that comes from work, that is if you really enjoy what you do. And anyone making enough to retire that early should really be good at what they do. I know there are some trying to save themselves to wealth, many stories of the multi-millionaire shcool teacher with matress money, but live a little on the way. Enjoy! :)

    Totally agree with your statement Bill. Why retire when you can at least do real estate part time, especially when you are good enough to be able to retire in your 30/40's.

  • Investor · Milford, CT · Member since 2012 · 592 posts · 285 votes
    13y

    Hi Rich, I am one of those $5,000 a month guys. I don't plan on living a life in front of a TV. The $5,000 will basically go to discretionary spending, tax and insurance. I don't plan on having any mortgages when I retire. Anything left which I hope will be more than half will be my travel budget. I plan on keep 2 residences to escape the winters in CT and travel as much as possible.

    In the other post I touched upon my "Road to Retirement" which is basically a excel roadmap on current holdings, calculating contributions, then using 5% future values to age 55, 62, 67, 70. I have created this years ago when I had all my retirement planning basically going into 401k contributions from my wife and I. We were lucky/fortunate to maximize our 401k contributions right out of college and continue to do so. We are 40yrs old and half way to our goal of $1m.

    I got into the RE game for the passive income that will allow me to possible get out of the W2/401k game earlier or at the very least hedge against it. One thing I have been seeing with a lot of senior family and friends are that they are Equity Rich but CASH Poor. Many are selling their assets and downsizing to sustain their retirements. This is where my buy and hold multi's will come into play by offering that continued income every month.

    As it stands right now if I was to leave W2 at 55 we would have a little over $1m in 401k. I would let that money compound probably to age 62 or 67 before I begin withdrawing 3-4% which should give us about 45-55k a year in just 401k. With RE our plan is to have about $5k coming in a month with about 2 more property purchases or I would safely say by age 45. In the 10yrs from 45 to 55 I will try to pay down as much of the mortgages as possible to get out of the W2 game and live solely on rental income. By Age 62 we should have about $8-10k coming in a month with 401k and RE. What to do with that money? Well at that age it will go to the kids and grand kids, just like some of you seasoned guys are doing.

    I whole-heartedly agree with you Rich. IMO, the folks that strive for those big $$$ and goals in retirement sadly never make it to "retirement" as they are always pushing the bar higher. Too many friends and family passing on by age 60 to enjoy it ;***(

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Jean Bolger:
    I am glad you're in such good health, Rich. Neither of my parents were so fortunate, and my Dad's memory care assisted living home ran close to 5k a month, and my Mom's nursing home closer to 6k. We kids were so very fortunate that my Mom had bought quality long-term care insurance, otherwise their nest egg would have been depleted in the blink of an eye. It's a downer, but it's something to think about when planning for retirement.

    And these days, you cannot even rely on the long-term care policy you've purchased and been paying on for years. My mother was just forced to choose to raise her premiums by $2300 per year or drop from her lifetime policy to a severely limited policy (this was after 3 smaller increases over the last 10 years). Apparently, both Met Life and John Hancock petitioned her state's insurance administration to change entire classes of policies, and they approved it, so thousands of senior citizens were hit with huge increases or severe reductions in coverage.

    I'm going to stick with the $15K/month plan just in case but will hope to leave most of it to my children. And we dropped any plan of purchasing long-term care insurance after finding out they can do that to you.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by John Chapman:
    Bill Gulley I probably misused the word "retire" The people to whom I'm referring don't sit around and engage in leisure activities all day like most people understand retirement. They seem to stay busy doing activities like investing and part-time jobs that interest them. They are really more financially independent, that is, they don't have to work if they don't want to.

    And I'm addicted to BP! To a point. I have plenty of anchors on my life, LOL, 2 large dogs keep you close to home, you tend to stay busy at someting. Boating, bike riding, swimming/diving, use to hike and do a little climbing before BP came along, got out of shape sitting on this thing puttering around. The GF keeps me busy! I should be running at this speed for another 15 years. My dad is very active at 85, still does RE, mows his yard, cleans the pool, drives like a bat of you know where, takes his GF dancing! He did tell me he planned to retire next year from RE, it's getting too mental, it has kept him sharp and entertained, he certainly doesn't need to work like you said John.

    I don't even know what pickle ball is Rich...... :)

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Rich,

    Yes, you can retire on $3k/month. However, it's different when you have a lot of passive income and choose to live on $3k/month. Your nest egg is still growing, and you have a safety net.

    It's different when retirees have only $3k/month of income and have to make it work on that amount. With one or two rounds of inflation, it would wipe these retirees out. There's no safety net for them. It's just a different feeling in my opinion.

  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Minh L. has an excellent point! It's the element of choice, or of feeling that you HAVE a choice, that provides freedom, not the amount of money coming in.

  • Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 450 votes
    13y

    Minh L.,

    That's exactly what I was thinking.

    Live on 3K a month, but have another 1 to 2 K coming in for safety and even the occasional toy.

    What about health insurance and medical costs? Even in good health, unsponsored health insurance that actually works is quite expensive - 1000/month easily.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I will also agree that $3,000 a month is definitely achievable.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    I'm glad we're getting such great replies. Thanks.
    Bil Gulley- google pickleball. It is addictive and great for all ages-including ours.
    Rich

  • Anson YoungBusiness Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 726 votes
    13y

    I like it. I also like 'NOT FOR EVERYONE' :-)

    Good work, as usual Rich. Had to google pickleball, looks fun!

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks for the thumbs up Anson. Hope CO is still good for you. Rich

  • Michele FischerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I've really enjoyed this discussion!

    I'm in my 40's, facing kids college costs before retirement, trying to live frugally, exploring the US for travel fun. And focusing on my weight and health, agree that this is a huge influencer of future health care costs. Inflation and health care is a huge unknown, but regardless, keeping up with the Jones' is a good way to end up broke.

    Rich, would love to be an active retiree in the future, probably not in Eureka :), thanks for sharing.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks Michelle- I continue to lose weight with all the activities! A round of golf and 2 hours of pickleball singles this morning. Really heart pumping. If you own real estate you'll be ok with inflation,imo. Health care is a crap shot.I have all the extra medicare crap and GOOD long term care insurance, and I hope for the best. Rich

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