Rental property income to qualify for loans - Question!

Rental property income to qualify for loans - Question!

Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 3 votes

Hi there,

We've got one investment property now (seller financing) and we're looking to expand, so exploring what we can qualify for with a conventional loan.

For the existing property, we put quite a bit of money into it to fix it up 2 years ago, so on paper, we're still operating at a "loss" on our taxes as we continue to offset our earnings with our previous expenses. I know this is what makes real estate such an attractive investment, because it's so easy to offset your tax burden by reinvesting in the property itself! We are actually netting $30k a year on the property though, so it's a solid little money maker for us, and we'd like to use that cash toward future investments.

But now the rub - our mortgage guy says the banks will look at our tax docs to see what to count as income, and the mortgage on our investment property will look like a liability since we're declaring loses on it, at least for the next year or two. So how do folks get around this? It seems weird to me that money we spent 2+ years ago makes us look like we have less income than we really do to buy more property today, since we are cash flowing. Do we really have to wait until we start showing a profit on our taxes to be able to use this income toward our purchasing power? Or do we have to talk to a different kind of mortgage broker? 

I want to look poor to the IRS but rich to the banks! :P

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Chris MasonPro Member
Moderator
Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y

It doesn't sound like OP actually provided their tax returns. They talked about their tax returns. Talk is cheap. Get the tax returns reviewed by someone that does a decent amount of rental properties before rushing to using a higher rate/fee DSCR loan.

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  • Devin PetersonBusiness Member
    Lender · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2022 · 2k+ posts · 664 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jennifer Muhler:

    Hi there,

    We've got one investment property now (seller financing) and we're looking to expand, so exploring what we can qualify for with a conventional loan.

    For the existing property, we put quite a bit of money into it to fix it up 2 years ago, so on paper, we're still operating at a "loss" on our taxes as we continue to offset our earnings with our previous expenses. I know this is what makes real estate such an attractive investment, because it's so easy to offset your tax burden by reinvesting in the property itself! We are actually netting $30k a year on the property though, so it's a solid little money maker for us, and we'd like to use that cash toward future investments.

    But now the rub - our mortgage guy says the banks will look at our tax docs to see what to count as income, and the mortgage on our investment property will look like a liability since we're declaring loses on it, at least for the next year or two. So how do folks get around this? It seems weird to me that money we spent 2+ years ago makes us look like we have less income than we really do to buy more property today, since we are cash flowing. Do we really have to wait until we start showing a profit on our taxes to be able to use this income toward our purchasing power? Or do we have to talk to a different kind of mortgage broker? 

    I want to look poor to the IRS but rich to the banks! :P

    Jennifer, Great question. The answer is not at all! No investor would every get ahead, it’s sounds like you could use some insightful information in the space of DSCR and commercial lending. These super investor friendly products don’t require tax returns, income, DTI, nothing! The properties are self sufficient and the debt service is so covered by the rent you charge. You can go as low as 15% for a purchase using this program and cash out up 80LTV to tap into some equity for scale. Nonqm space is what you need!
  • Lender · CA · Member since 2019 · 82 posts · 46 votes
    3y

    Hey Jennifer,

    I have been in your situation. I took out a DSCR loan myself. I am a fan of DSCR loans and it really is a great option. It uses the total rental income from your investment property to qualify. No need to use your personal income. You can cash out refinance. It depends on the ratios. Which means.. how much you receive in rent vs the expenses of taxes insurance etc.

    Happy to share if you have questions... I am in California as well.

    Cheers, Jessica

  • Lender · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 916 posts · 647 votes
    3y

    @Jennifer Muhler exactly above. DSCR is the next option as this loan product does not need any income/DTI/taxes qualifications. It is based on the property's rents received and the new debts you take on. Another benefit of it is, theres no limit to the amount of loans you can have. Investors use this loan to expand and grow.

  • Jared RineBusiness Member
    Lender · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 277 votes
    3y

    @Jennifer Muhler...the easy answer to your question is it depends. If your current mortgage guy hasn't actually reviewed your taxes then it's tough to say. Because when doing the calculations, you might be running a loss, but then you have to add back certain expenses to come up with the final numbers, at least going conventional. So you might be able to qualify. And on a new investment property, you should be able to use proposed rents (market rents) to offset your mortgage payment. If you can't, you need to find a new lender/broker. ....OR as other posters mentioned, you could get a DSCR loan that isn't going to take into account any personal income whatsoever and is will mainly be based off the subject property's cash flow. Just my $0.02

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  • Robin SimonBusiness Member
    Lender · Austin, TX · Member since 2022 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jonathan Taylor:

    @Jennifer Muhler exactly above. DSCR is the next option as this loan product does not need any income/DTI/taxes qualifications. It is based on the property's rents received and the new debts you take on. Another benefit of it is, theres no limit to the amount of loans you can have. Investors use this loan to expand and grow.


    Agree with Jonathan - it sounds like DSCR will be your best bet

  • Kristen L GarnerBusiness Member
    Lender · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 451 posts · 287 votes
    3y

    I agree with the others. Make sure your taxes have truly been reviewed by a lender and their underwriting team. If you cannot qualify for conventional you can always go the non-QM route. There is an entire category of loans perfect for investors in your situation: DSCR (debt service coverage ratio), bank statement loans, asset based loans, etc. Each program has it's perks but the bottom line is you can get qualified based on either the asset itself or your income without requiring taxes to be thrown into the mix. non-QM products also allow you to close in an LLC and you can use them for refi. Best of luck!

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y

    It doesn't sound like OP actually provided their tax returns. They talked about their tax returns. Talk is cheap. Get the tax returns reviewed by someone that does a decent amount of rental properties before rushing to using a higher rate/fee DSCR loan.

  • Erik EstradaBusiness Member
    Lender · Member since 2022 · 6k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    A DSCR loan could work in your situation. No tax returns or income docs required. The drawback is the higher interest rate (for the time being) and prepayment penalties. Still, there are some offering these loans at near conventional rates.

    LuxePrivate Investments LLC 572 Reviews
  • Robin SimonBusiness Member
    Lender · Austin, TX · Member since 2022 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Erik Estrada:

    A DSCR loan could work in your situation. No tax returns or income docs required. The drawback is the higher interest rate (for the time being) and prepayment penalties. Still, there are some offering these loans at near conventional rates.


    Agree with this - this is the bread and butter for DSCR loans - don't have to worry about Tax Returns or the DTI - if you are a long-term time horizon investor and don't mind prepayment penalties for a couple of years, rates should be in the ballpark of conventional (about .75% to 1.00% higher) and your best bet

  • Lender · NJ · Member since 2022 · 129 posts · 18 votes
    3y

    A DSCR loan would be a better option than conventional. Check out private money lenders. I'm a loan originator for a family office and we do these types of loans all the time. Rates are floating around low 7s these days.

  • Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    3y

    Thanks everyone for your responses. We're definitely going to do our taxes first and see how things shakeout there first with a conventional loan since we do have W-2 income to support a regular mortgage, just wasn't sure how over time these expenses writeoffs start to reduce your buying potential with conventional loans. I'll look into DSCR options in order to compare!

  • Member since 2023 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    3y

    You might want to look at a business line of credit, 3.5% interest, interest only payments 10 year term.  That's real friendly.

    welcome to a place where people help.

    Steve

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