Converting primary to rental. DTI questions

Converting primary to rental. DTI questions

Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 294 votes

I recently moved to a new state and am converting what was my primary residence into a rental.  I am set to close on a new primary residence however my underwriter is insisting that my debt to income level is too high because of the mortgage on the old primary home.  They refuse to acknowledge any potential rental income from the conversion of this former primary home unless I am able to provide them a signed lease agreement with a tenant already in place.  They will not accept an estimated monthly rent amount that was provided by my property management company.  The former primary needed some minor repairs such as carpet/fence repair and due to those repairs that home will likely not be rented by the time I am supposed to close on my new primary.

Is it true that Fannie Mae guidelines prohibit using projected rental income even if there is already a signed agreement with a property management company that shows a clear intent to rent that home? Not taking some sort of percentage of estimated future revenue doesn't make any sense. It would seem to me that just about anyone's DTI would be extremely high if they were calculating the debt as two mortgages and not having any rental income to offset that second mortgage until a signed lease is in place. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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Jay HurstBusiness Member
Lender · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Bob Daniels:

I recently moved to a new state and am converting what was my primary residence into a rental.  I am set to close on a new primary residence however my underwriter is insisting that my debt to income level is too high because of the mortgage on the old primary home.  They refuse to acknowledge any potential rental income from the conversion of this former primary home unless I am able to provide them a signed lease agreement with a tenant already in place.  They will not accept an estimated monthly rent amount that was provided by my property management company.  The former primary needed some minor repairs such as carpet/fence repair and due to those repairs that home will likely not be rented by the time I am supposed to close on my new primary.

Is it true that Fannie Mae guidelines prohibit using projected rental income even if there is already a signed agreement with a property management company that shows a clear intent to rent that home? Not taking some sort of percentage of estimated future revenue doesn't make any sense. It would seem to me that just about anyone's DTI would be extremely high if they were calculating the debt as two mortgages and not having any rental income to offset that second mortgage until a signed lease is in place. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 @Bob Daniels   Very sorry that your LO did not inform you of this as they very much should have if you needed the income from your departing residence to qualify.  That is LO 101. Yes, Fannie/Freddie require that you have a lease in place, and then will use 75% of the income to offset your current mortgage.  (there used to be more documentation required as well as proof you had at least 25% equity in the departing residence but no more)   Again, you should have been told this from day one. We do not lend in AZ or NC, but we have a bridge program to help folks with the timing of these transactions. 

And to add, the suggestion above would not work as a DSCR loan does not magically take away the debt even if it is not reported on a credit report.

Hurst Real Estate, INC4.991 Reviews
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  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas · Member since 2023 · 19 posts · 10 votes
    3y

    @Bob Daniels I was in a almost the exact situation last year when I converted my primary into a rental. Unfortunately, I don't have any good news to share with you. I ended up selling some investments in order to put a larger down payment down on my primary to get to an appropriate DTI. Given the banking climate at the moment, I imagine most lenders are being even more cautious than they were a year ago. I hope someone has gone through this and has a better solution for you!

  • Lender · Austin Texas · Member since 2022 · 319 posts · 156 votes
    3y

    You may consider refinancing the property into a private capital loan, eliminating it from my credit report. These are often times called DSCR loans - since it is a business purpose property (rental) you use the rental income of the property to qualify and vest title in a business entity.

  • Jay HurstBusiness Member
    Lender · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bob Daniels:

    I recently moved to a new state and am converting what was my primary residence into a rental.  I am set to close on a new primary residence however my underwriter is insisting that my debt to income level is too high because of the mortgage on the old primary home.  They refuse to acknowledge any potential rental income from the conversion of this former primary home unless I am able to provide them a signed lease agreement with a tenant already in place.  They will not accept an estimated monthly rent amount that was provided by my property management company.  The former primary needed some minor repairs such as carpet/fence repair and due to those repairs that home will likely not be rented by the time I am supposed to close on my new primary.

    Is it true that Fannie Mae guidelines prohibit using projected rental income even if there is already a signed agreement with a property management company that shows a clear intent to rent that home? Not taking some sort of percentage of estimated future revenue doesn't make any sense. It would seem to me that just about anyone's DTI would be extremely high if they were calculating the debt as two mortgages and not having any rental income to offset that second mortgage until a signed lease is in place. Any help is greatly appreciated.

     @Bob Daniels   Very sorry that your LO did not inform you of this as they very much should have if you needed the income from your departing residence to qualify.  That is LO 101. Yes, Fannie/Freddie require that you have a lease in place, and then will use 75% of the income to offset your current mortgage.  (there used to be more documentation required as well as proof you had at least 25% equity in the departing residence but no more)   Again, you should have been told this from day one. We do not lend in AZ or NC, but we have a bridge program to help folks with the timing of these transactions. 

    And to add, the suggestion above would not work as a DSCR loan does not magically take away the debt even if it is not reported on a credit report.

    Hurst Real Estate, INC4.991 Reviews
  • Lender · Nashville TN - Licensed in AL AR DC FL GA LA MD TN, TX and VA · Member since 2021 · 583 posts · 338 votes
    3y

    @Bob Daniels - Jay covered the 411 on using rental income. Perhaps you can find someone to sign a lease with a move-in date once repairs are finished? Short of that, other options I can think of off the top are 1) pay off debts to lower Debt To Income, 2) find cheaper homeowner's insurance, 3) pay for Mortgage insurance upfront instead of monthly or 4) large down payment. Hopefully your lender can help advise you on these options. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Raleigh / Durham NC · Member since 2023 · 26 posts · 21 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jay Hurst:
    Quote from @Bob Daniels:

    I recently moved to a new state and am converting what was my primary residence into a rental.  I am set to close on a new primary residence however my underwriter is insisting that my debt to income level is too high because of the mortgage on the old primary home.  They refuse to acknowledge any potential rental income from the conversion of this former primary home unless I am able to provide them a signed lease agreement with a tenant already in place.  They will not accept an estimated monthly rent amount that was provided by my property management company.  The former primary needed some minor repairs such as carpet/fence repair and due to those repairs that home will likely not be rented by the time I am supposed to close on my new primary.

    Is it true that Fannie Mae guidelines prohibit using projected rental income even if there is already a signed agreement with a property management company that shows a clear intent to rent that home? Not taking some sort of percentage of estimated future revenue doesn't make any sense. It would seem to me that just about anyone's DTI would be extremely high if they were calculating the debt as two mortgages and not having any rental income to offset that second mortgage until a signed lease is in place. Any help is greatly appreciated.

     @Bob Daniels   Very sorry that your LO did not inform you of this as they very much should have if you needed the income from your departing residence to qualify.  That is LO 101. Yes, Fannie/Freddie require that you have a lease in place, and then will use 75% of the income to offset your current mortgage.  (there used to be more documentation required as well as proof you had at least 25% equity in the departing residence but no more)   Again, you should have been told this from day one. We do not lend in AZ or NC, but we have a bridge program to help folks with the timing of these transactions. 

    And to add, the suggestion above would not work as a DSCR loan does not magically take away the debt even if it is not reported on a credit report.


     He is exactly right

  • Lender · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 899 votes
    3y

    @Bob Daniels-  signed rental agreement is definitely  needed ...lender will use  75% of the monthly income off lease agreement to  help offset the depating homes mortgage payment 

  • Lender · United States · Member since 2023 · 73 posts · 13 votes
    3y

    While technically the LO is correct, there are always different options. Not sure of the current equity situation in the home you are leaving but a bridge loan may be a option until you have a renter in place. Also could look at ways of reducing your DTI in other manners. I may have options for you to ponder if you would like to go over them feel free to give me a call.

  • Sasha MohammedPro Member
    Lender · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2018 · 337 posts · 245 votes
    3y

    as others have mentioned, yes, you need a lease. HOWEVER, unless the lender you're working with has an "overlay" prohibiting it -- leasing to a family member is A-ok. Maybe see if you have a family member that would agree to move in to your departing residence and sign a lease for you. 

  • Lender · United States · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 499 votes
    3y

    Here's an idea:

    Once you're moved out and can show proof of a new address, the property becomes eligible for a DSCR loan. DSCR lenders don't look at DTI, taxes, etc. However, you'll need to be moved out before starting the process.

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