Is this lender scamming me?

Is this lender scamming me?

Real Estate Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 13 votes

So it's my first time getting a loan of any kind. And I want to make sure no one is trying to take advantage of me or scam me. I met a private lender on LinkedIn.

We exchanged drivers license and he shared his Articles of Incorporation with me. (I also googled it, and it's an active LLC.)

I wired him the origination fee of $1700 and he sent me this email this morning:

"The loan has been originated and documented and all process from my end has been completed for funding. A new policy has been implemented so my attorney and the bank has made it clear that the next thing before funding can be fully carried out is to have the loan insured in your name, the reason for the loan insurance is to protect you against any future lapses or default from your end to make repayment on time, the loan insurance policy need to be obtained in order to get funds across to you and the fee to have the loan insured is $3000 and the process will be completed before 24 hours.

You need to make this payment today so we can finalize the loan later today.

I await your response ASAP so we can proceed with the loan transaction.

Note: The insurance fee is 100% refunded at the point of funding and you are expected to receive the insurance fee to be added to the loan amount at the point of funding (a total sum of $178,000.00 as against $175,000.00."

I dont know much about loans..

Is loan insurance normal? Is this how this process works?

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Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
7y

100% scam.  Stop now before you lose any more money.  A real lender would not send you their drivers license (the one you got was not for the person you're dealing with).  The $1,700 "origination fee" you paid is gone.  Don't pay origination fees up front to a private lender.  "Loan insurance" is another scam.  It's not a real thing and if you pay that $3,000 that'll be gone too.  Lastly, don't wire money to a "lender".  Have any fees collected at closing by whatever legitimate title/escrow company is handling your closing. 

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  • Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    7y

    100% scam.  Stop now before you lose any more money.  A real lender would not send you their drivers license (the one you got was not for the person you're dealing with).  The $1,700 "origination fee" you paid is gone.  Don't pay origination fees up front to a private lender.  "Loan insurance" is another scam.  It's not a real thing and if you pay that $3,000 that'll be gone too.  Lastly, don't wire money to a "lender".  Have any fees collected at closing by whatever legitimate title/escrow company is handling your closing. 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    7y

    Yes it is a scam

  • Stephanie P.Pro Member
    Washington, DC Mortgage Lender/Broker · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Autumn Alexander

    Absolute scam.  Sounds like wire fraud.  You have at least some information.  I'd call the authorities.

  • Member since 2019 · 83 posts · 61 votes
    7y

    My condolences.  Not being a smartass here, but you were taken.  I always recommend you MEET your lender's rep face to face.  Trust is a big part of the process, and these online only lenders kind of make me leery. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 13 votes
    7y

    Thank you all for your response. Do you have any lenders that you personally recommend?

  • Lender · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 417 posts · 150 votes
    7y

    @Autumn Alexander What type of deal are you doing? Is this a flip or a buy n hold? What downpayment were you prepared to put down?

  • Real Estate Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 13 votes
    7y

    @Dan Gamache I am purchasing a condo on miami beach to do daily rentals....so buy and hold. Honestly, I don't have much for a down payment - my fiance and sister n law have agreed to help with upfront costs - they are very supportive. The loan was going to cover purchase and rehab. Condos I am considering are between 90K and 150K. 

  • Lender · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 417 posts · 150 votes
    7y

    @Autumn Alexander ok, most private lenders would require 20-25% downpayment for that type of transaction. I'm not sure who to refer you too. Good luck, hope it works out for you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Pompano beach, FL · Member since 2017 · 478 posts · 194 votes
    7y

    @Autumn Alexander Come to our women’s real estate meeting with about 40 professional women. June 26. Will be listed on events page for broward.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    here are a few real lenders and if they wont do the deal no one will other than family

    lending one

    lima one

    lending home

    patch of land

    just off the top of my head.

    good Ingrid Robinson and Remington financial  it was an American greed episode.. she took them down.. you have got caught up in the advanced fee lending scheme.. 

    no lender requires our drivers license up front or provides theirs.. LLC means absolutely nothing you can start one with hundred bucks.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    @Autumn Alexander Yes, unfortunately you have absolutely been scammed.

    -Origination fees are collected at the Closing of the actual Purchase

    -There is no such thing as Loan Insurance purchased by the borrower up front.

    You need to meet with a Local lender, face to face.  I never dealt in Miami, but if Supreme Lending has an office near you, that would be a good place to start, we used them in Palm Beach county.

    A couple of observations though:

    STR's in Miami Beach are Highly regulated, permits required, Most condo associations do Not allow them and the ones that qualify for str's are highly priced.

    You are going to need at least 25% down, along with closing costs and any rehab money will most likely be out of pocket for an investment property.

    Many of the condos that you can do this with will be in buildings where the unit does Not qualify for traditional conventional loans, due the higher percentage of rental units verses the number of owner occupied.  Therefore you will need financing for a “non warrantable” condo......harder to fins, higher interest rate.

    The reality is, this idea may not work for you.  Sit down with a Local lender, Face To Face, let them go through it with you.

  • Real Estate Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 13 votes
    7y

    @Wayne Brooks I am aware of the requirements for STR's in Miami Beach, and I definitely plan to do it the right way (permits, license, tax, etc). I have found several units available in the correct zoning that allow daily rentals, so finding a property to do this strategy; I am not worried about.    

    Thank you for your recommendation, I'll look them up. 

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Autumn Alexander:

    Thank you all for your response. Do you have any lenders that you personally recommend?

    Go to your local REIA and ask who they use & have actually closed with. You just lost $1700 because you didn't want to buy someone more experienced than yourself a beer and pick their brain...

    Anyone want a free beer from me? Great, show me that your mortgage production numbers are greater than my own and I'm all over it. Beer probably has the best ROI of anything out there.

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    FYI for anyone following along for red flag lessons... Articles of Incorporation are used to create Corporations, while Articles of Organization are used to create LLCs.

    Gimer Law516 Reviews
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    Tom I have been approached numerous times on BP  and other things like Linkden and facebook by faux lenders I go ahead and let them  go through their elevator pitch 

    what they do and those that really don't know what they don't know about the world of lending and finance is they provide things that we know are not germane but the person they are targeting gets impressed by those items.. IE:

    1. how fake can the lender be if they send you a picture of their ID  ?

    2. copy of either articles of LLC org or Corp org validating the name on their faux website.

    3. rates and terms to good to be true especially for someone who is new and has no experience.

    Once they set you up with those items then its either 500 to 2k deposit to pay to draw the docks since your fully approved.. that seems reasonable to folks so they send that in.. The next thing you get then is this faux mortgage insurance and they try to get 3 to 5k out of you for that.. being that your new and all.. and it has just enough ring of truth that folks fall for it.. I mean most people have heard of PMI on owner occ loans.. so then they send that in.. and it goes on and on until they have bled them .

    One of the Faux lenders I let go on and on I told him I needed 800kk  3 hours later oh your approved just need to wire me 24k deposit.. Ya right.. but these guys would not do it if it did not work..  and of course this young lady got a little bit of an education here.. and sounds like she will be fine with a small loss by this .. 

  • Lender · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 899 votes
    7y

    scam...never  pay anything to anyone when applying for a loan

  • Investor · Dunedin, FL · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    @Autumn Alexander

    This is totally a scam. All fees due should be collected at closing. Never pay origination fees upfront. They are always paid at closing.

  • Rental Property Investor · Lehi, UT (Lehi) · Member since 2018 · 91 posts · 99 votes
    7y

    I will try to ask this without sounding rude and I apologize if it comes through like that over text.

    Please tell me why in the world someone would meet a lender online and wire money to him? Does anyone care about their money anymore? 1700 is real money and it blows my mind that someone would go yup here ya go. My honest question is why are people doing this? Is it really that much easier then to shake hands with a real lender and talk on the phone with them?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Fassett:

    I will try to ask this without sounding rude and I apologize if it comes through like that over text.

    Please tell me why in the world someone would meet a lender online and wire money to him? Does anyone care about their money anymore? 1700 is real money and it blows my mind that someone would go yup here ya go. My honest question is why are people doing this? Is it really that much easier then to shake hands with a real lender and talk on the phone with them?

     I have interacted with many of these folks who hit me with PM on BP..  they are smooth and its a progression.. they have a website they have these faux articles well the articles are real the company simply does not exist.. then they send a picture ID  no fraudster would do that right ?? they just suck these people in.. these are usually first time borrowers that are used to doing everything over the internet I mean they send money to amazon before the goods show up right..  bottom line is they talk a great game give you terms that you think you found a fold mine..etc.. nothing more than a sophisticated Nigerian  prince scam.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 734 votes
    7y

    A good number of them are also offshore. You see that a lot in the Facebook REI groups. They always list the last name first. Fortunately most use the same script and always do 5% with no docs! And they have a gmail, yahoo or msn email address.

  • Stephanie P.Pro Member
    Washington, DC Mortgage Lender/Broker · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Autumn Alexander

    Some of the information on this thread is misleading or at least disingenuous.  Please allow me a moment to square it up.

    1. When people say meet your lender in person, it doesn't always work out that way.  Sure, it would be nice to sit down and have a beer with every borrower, but logistically, it's impossible.  Last year, my company originated or closed loans in 16 states including North Carolina, Florida, Maryland, Washington DC, Virginia, Ohio and others I can't remember.  We didn't visit the borrowers in those states.  We are based in the Washington DC area and don't travel to take an application in Georgia for example.  That would be silly.  Unfortunately there are people who prey on others, but the internet has changed the way loans are originated.
    2. When people say don't pay any money up front, loans don't work that way.  It doesn't matter if you're dealing with a  bank, a correspondent "A" paper lender or a broker.  To originate a loan, you will pay some things up front.  Appraisals are paid up front. Some companies in the portfolio space require background checks up front and others wrap those fees in in an "application fee".  While origination fees are never paid up front, fees for third party charges are almost always paid to get the loan submitted.  Your lender/broker should be able to explain that without equivocation.
    3. I've never sent anyone my driver's license and no real broker/lender will either.
    4. The broker/lender should be transparent with fees and costs on your loan.  If they're not find someone that will.  Again, they should be able to give you a break down of where the money is going and why.  If not, find someone that will.  

    Just my two cents.

    Stephanie

  • Lender · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    I'm a lender that is licensed in FL. You should pay nothing upfront in the form of closing costs (appraisal is usually paid outside of closing, but that's through an AMC). Closing costs and down payment are wired to the attorney at closing.

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    @Thomas Perrie

    I’m in Florida, my dad has about ten rental properties he owns through his trust or my mothers trust free and clear. He would like to get some of the cash out of some of these properties to purchase more rental/investment type properties. Is this something your company can do?

  • Lender · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    Originally posted by @Torie Cannon:

    @Thomas Perrie

    I’m in Florida, my dad has about ten rental properties he owns through his trust or my mothers trust free and clear. He would like to get some of the cash out of some of these properties to purchase more rental/investment type properties. Is this something your company can do?

     Absolutely!  I just shot you a DM.

  • Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chris Mason:
    Originally posted by @Autumn Alexander:

    Thank you all for your response. Do you have any lenders that you personally recommend?

    Go to your local REIA and ask who they use & have actually closed with. You just lost $1700 because you didn't want to buy someone more experienced than yourself a beer and pick their brain...

    Anyone want a free beer from me? Great, show me that your mortgage production numbers are greater than my own and I'm all over it. Beer probably has the best ROI of anything out there.

    Chris, I love it - and I agree. Beer has the highest ROI.

    Good thing you're there in CA and I am in OH. If you buy me beer, you will be broke in no time - hahaha!

    Now, let me answer Autumn.

    LendingOne, LimaOne...Supreme Lending, yes - those are good HMLs.

    The problem is, they can typically fund up to 90% of the project cost so you need to come up with 10% downpayment. In addition to that, you need to come up with the origination fee (at closing not before) and you need to be sure you have the holding costs saved up too. The holding cost is comprised of the interest payment plus taxes, insurance and utilities you need to pay while holding onto the property before you can re-sell it.

    If your credit is 720 and above, you can get a BLOC (Business line of credit) to fund the remaining 10% + points+ closing cost + holding cost. Send me a PM if you need that and I can refer you to someone I know.

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