The Evolution of the Hard Money Space and then PAUSE...

The Evolution of the Hard Money Space and then PAUSE...

Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes

The goal of this discussion is not to push any negativity among private lending operations that have started over the past few years. In fact, "mine is one of them". What we want to do is identify and explain how quickly the private lending industry evolved and why some companies had a firm stop as of last week.

In the hard money industry, the rates that are offered, coupled with leverage are a direct result of "supply and demand" of capital. The active real estate investors that were acquiring distressed assets in 2010/2011 may remember a time when everything was priced comparable. Common structures in California, dependent on leverage, started at 12% interest and 2-3% origination, sometimes higher. During this time there was an abundance of properties and not a lot of free capital available for loans. The main source of capital for Private Lending firms were Private Investors looking for a secured return against real estate, or Companies that had their own capital to lend out. Many brokers had borrower relationships but no capital. Brokers would refer these clients to Private Lending Firms.

As the market continued to gain traction in 2012 and into 2013, Private Lending Companies heard whispers that "Institutional Money", "Private Equity", and/or "Wall Street" money was making an attempt to enter the marketplace. Who could blame them? At the time, there were really no comparable investments that had as strong of a risk/return profile as a secured, first trust deed against real estate. There was a hurdle they faced, SCALABILITY. Technology and resources did not allow them to deploy the capital they needed.

From 2014 -2016 another shift started to occur as technology began to improve, crowdfunding became more mainstream, and Fintech started to make an appearance. Companies started to form mortgage pools, or funds, to allow for quicker closings and larger spreads. Online crowdfunding platforms started giving a huge group of retail investors access to loans secured against real estate. Family Offices were coming around to get more comfortable with lending. During this window as technology improved, "Institutional Money" started to make its push into the Hard Money Industry.

This newly available capital was great for the borrower. As access to capital improved, pricing, and leverage reached points that were not previously available. The Private Investors from 2011 and 2012 were now being pushed to compete with these new loan structures that arguably were "too rich for their blood" (ie: too risky). Remember from earlier, rates/leverage/and pricing are based on "supply" and "demand" of capital and there was an extreme "flood" of capital into the market, all while quality deals were becoming scarcer. I remember sitting down with investors in 2016, 2017 & 2018 and walking them through what was occurring. That was not the time to chase yield. Rather, stick to our parameters, even if it meant a reduction in volume. Leverage options were being increased while rates were being driven down. In investing, the term typically goes "More Risk, More Return." In this instance, we were seeing "More Risk, Less Return". The risk/return profile that attracted big money into the industry was being squeezed and this profile was no longer making sense.

In sitting down with investors, we discussed when "Big Money" sees an opportunity for arbitrage, they exploit that market until there is no way to gain an advantage on returns.

As quickly as "Institutional Money" enters a market, it can leave a market. Literally overnight.

Heading into 2019 there were great loan structures being offered to Fix and Flip investors. Fix and Flip investors were able to capitalize on the opportunities to borrow more money at lower costs than ever before. Correspondent lending programs exploded which helped resolve the scalability issue mentioned earlier. From a passive investor point of few, these structures did not appear to be sustainable at the pricing being offered. Again, "supply and demand" of capital.

The more money a firm raises over a short period of time, the faster it needs to get it to "work". We witnessed loan structures at 80%-90% LTP and 100% of the rehab. On paper, this netted over 100% of the purchase price. These were being priced anywhere from 1%-2% origination and rates starting in the low 8's%. A Private Lender was actually able to price out a bridge loan with substantially lower leverage, at an equal or slightly higher rate than a Fix and Flip Loan.

What happened?

Covid 19, Stock Market Sell Off, Liquidity dried up, and EXTREME Market Uncertainty.


How quickly can institutional money leave a market? Overnight. That is what happened last week. Hard Money and Private Lending operations that started over the past few years, backed by this Big Money, put a pause on lending. Not all of them, but a good amount. They are in a wait and see position. In other words, this potentially means, "Wait and Re-Allocate."


What does this mean for Active Real Estate Investors going forward?


This is simply my opinion, but in the short term, pricing and leverage options are going to "revert back to the mean". If you want to call it that. The structures will drift to what was being offered before "Big Money" entered the space and the 85%/100% structure may not make a return. There will be a sticker shock on pricing and leverage, as a majority of the Lending Companies still lending will be pricing risk into their loans. Leverage may be reduced; pricing may increase. There will be liquidity in the marketplace and a majority of this liquidity will be in the form of Private Investors and Companies that have done this dance before.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
6y

to ad d a little color to the conversation I first started in the HML space in the mid 80s in SF bay Area as a CA RE broker.
My dad had used HML or private money since the late 60s in Northern CA.

in those days 70s and 80s most hard money or a lot of it was 80 10 10 on owner occ.. because you could not get more than 80% loan to buy a home .. So the broker I worked for in those days did literally thousands of those small seconds and of course a lot of firsts.. rates were 5 and 15 1 to 3 year terms.. I used it to buy my second home in 81  120k  12k cash down 12k second that i paid off in 3 years at 15%  etc.

So we were all going along well and then the thrifts and S and Ls jumped into the space and cut our rates.. so we had to get more creative.. we were still pretty much at 20% apr. And that continued up until the GFC with mid west rates much higher than west coast since the loans were so much smaller.. it was common to write loans at 30% apr .. now those were 30 to 50k loans but we did hundreds per year.. And the majority were for BRRR landlords its how they bought mid west turn key.

Then as you correctly described the last 10 years or so.. 07 to 2011 many got wiped out.. Myself included. not totally but i had a book at 35 million our own money and 28 million of bank LOC that we tagged to lend money. those froze over night in the GFC.. and there went my company from 24 employees to 4 within a year and we basically disbanded.

the companies that started as you said in the 2 and 12 4 and 14 market of 2010 to 2014 did very well.. then its exactly like you said big money came in.. you dont need big margins when U have 100 mil to lend compared to the smaller 10 to 20 million size companies.. and the price war was on .. Especially in CA.. Oregon remained a little higher and the mid west and East coast stayed pretty high as well..So will be interesting to see how it all shakes out

@Dane Fitch  I see you work with lending home.. I looked at broker for them for a while but the price stucture was so low it was hard to really make any money at least what i am used to making.. but i love their pricing matrix. One of my clients uses them a lot back east and he said 2 days ago they lowered the LTVs a bit and raised rates a tad.

Will be interesting to see if this turmoil of the last month actually creates a lot of defaults.

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  • Joseph CacciapagliaBusiness Member
    Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Great explanation @Bradley Laddusaw. I remember when 65% of as-is value + rehab was pretty normal for HMLs. Of course rates started at 12% and 2 points at that time, and sometimes had exit points as well. Hopefully, no one thought the recent structures we've been seeing were sustainable, and everyone just made the best of them while they could. It will be interesting to see which lenders are left once the dust settles.

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  • Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    Thank you for the feedback @Joseph Cacciapaglia.  Hope all is well with you and your family.

  • Lender · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 653 posts · 313 votes
    6y

    Great post. I've had several Capital partners suspend business because of whats happening. These were also "fund based" private money sources and I had a similar assumption to what you mentioned in the post, but you articulated the points well. Different times call for creative solutions, we will see who thrives. This is quite a unique situation..

  • Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    Thanks @Eric Johnson.  Different times indeed and it will be interesting to see who is here when the dust settles.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 730 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Bradley Laddusaw excellent post and thanks for sharing. I always wondered why rates dropped from the 11-12s in 2011 to the low 8s recently (well, as of 2 weeks ago!)

    I noticed a few new players lending in the Bay Area multifamily bridge space at 90% LTC, and I had a feeling the party would end soon. Didn’t think it would happen so abruptly. Several local lenders stopped lending overnight.

  • Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed, thank you for the feedback and yes, it did escalate pretty quickly over the past few years.  Hope you and your family are staying healthy.

  • Wholesaler, Rehabber and Landlord · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    This is very interesting to see it all happen almost overnight. I am 51 years old and I have seen it and lived through it before. The first time right out of college in 91. Horrible market because tax reform, S&L crisis, oil prices, etc. Saw it with tech stocks in 2000 or 2001. Saw it in 2007-8 and really seeing it now.

    I was actually investing in 2007-8. It hit hard because I did not see the signs. You dont think anything is wrong when making money is SOOOOOO easy. When every idiot was flipping houses and saying how easy it was to make an extra 100k per year as a side job, you have to know that the party is almost over. Or at least you should. 

    I noticed last time that teachers, plumbers, electricians, even janitors were flipping in 2006 and 2007. I thought it was wierd. I realized that money was too easy to get because EVERYONE makes money flipping. That was the sign that things were about to change. This time I heeded the signs. I did not know how or why, but they were going to change. As hard money was sub 10%, fees were going down and LTVs were going up I knew it was time to get a little scared.

    You have to change your stategy a bit as time goes on. You have to zig, then zag then zig again a few years later as the market matures. I think the market was very ripe, but turned black in days.

  • Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    @Rick Pozos, thank you for sharing your insight.  It is weird how history tends to repeat itself disguised in different forms or "strategies".  

    Hope you and your family are staying healthy.

  • Jared RineBusiness Member
    Lender · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 277 votes
    6y

    @Bradley Laddusaw...great posting on what's going on.  I've been having many one-off conversations on this topic with colleagues, associates, and clients, especially as of this week.

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  • Investor · Gresham, OR · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    Great post!  So many borrowers are feeling the whiplash of their local lenders being open for business and closed the next day.  And like you said the ones that are around have both cut leverage and and added to the cost of the loan literally overnight.  Most borrowers I've talked with are understanding and are going back to their sellers and asking for a further price reduction that netting them 2X to 3X what extra fees are being charged.

         This asset class in general has had an incredible run.  It's really become a hybrid of hard money and private money.  What we've noticed is that the 2 most critical factors that determine default rates are experience (how many flips you've done in the last 2 or 3 years) and FICO score with the former being more dominant than the latter.  This downturn will be a huge test for this asset class to see if it has legs to remain in the 1 point and single digit interest rate world.  I think the experienced investors will keep it alive and lenders will be more creative and flexible for holding terms and potentially rental refinances.  It's all about the investors ability to exit out of the loan and having multiple exit strategies. 

    @Bradley Laddusaw do you think these bonds do well and this securitization and institutional money come back?

  • Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    Good Morning @Dane Fitch,

    Thanks for the reading my article and providing some context. Loaded question and this reply got longer than expected. Again, these are just my assumptions and opinions as I have no direct information or connection to these Institutional Capital Providers, "Big Money". To put the performance of these bonds into context, I feel performance is less FICO driven vs. a combination of skin in the game and experience as you alluded to. Over the past couple of years I witnessed loan quotes requiring at least 5 flips, LTV at 75%/100%, 2% and 9.99%-10.99% interest transition into no experience needed or 1 flip, LTV at 90%/100%, 1% and rates starting in the 8%'s. How was this possible? Getting comfortable saying we are holding funds back in reserves and basing the loan off of 65%-70% ARV.

    In speaking to people in the industry, what are the couple terms they throw around interchangeably.  It is ARV and LTV.  You have an As-Is (which I think is LTV) and then you have the ARV. Unfortunately a lot of professionals in the space use just LTV when discussing both.  I am concerned loans started to be packaged up at 65% LTV, when that very easily should have been ARV.  Again, my own concerns not supported by direct knowledge.  Just going off a hunch on how loans are quoted on a daily basis.

    Here is where I question the performance on these higher leverage point loans.  Who budgets their rehab perfectly?  No one.  How many reserves may be underfunded in a time when qualified GC's are charging premiums?  Most of them.  I know that from speaking to various fund control companies here is CA.  If a borrower has only 10% skin in the game, what are the chances of him putting another 10-20% in to potentially lose that same 10%-20%?

    Over the life of a rehab loan, the property value does not go straight up.  Rather it is a J-Curve type return.  Reason being, once wind is blowing through the property, the property is not worth what the borrower paid for it, most likely less.  Then as renovations start being completed, value goes up.  What I hope does not occur, are a large number of defaults at the bottom of the J.  With that being said, the market could trade flat for the next 12 months, America gets back to work sooner than later and we do not see a material pull back in values which will help support the performance.

    Performance of the lower LTV bridge on income properties I think will perform better.  Main reason being, the skin in the game component of those loan structures but I could be wrong.

    Timing on the return of Big Money.  I believe there are still a couple players in the industry still performing but again, they were not the ones writing the crazy loans.  I think it will return, but not in the mass waives that it was and LTV/Pricing will revert back to market.  I think the Correspondent Programs will be limited and vetted more stringently.  The times of the 90%/100% loan structures I feel are over.  Now to the when?  I do not think the Big Money returns until they are able to perform a full breakdown of their portfolios to see what their overall exposure is.  They will also not be returning until the dust settles on government restrictions pertaining to payments/foreclosures as well as when there is an exact timeline on when America will be back open for business.  The hurdle for them is not necessarily having the money available, but not having the back end buyers that are willing to buy these securitized loans.  If they do not have an end buyer, chances are they wont be back until they do.  It is extremely difficult to forecast or model out "uncertainty".  Investors, small and big, write loans for a fixed monthly cashflow and if that can not be received, it does not serve its purpose.

    For a lot of these reasons here, I feel the loan structures being offered going forward will be priced out with LTV's closer to where they were before the big money came into the market.  The ones lending will be your traditional direct lenders that represent private investors or have their own pools of capital to lend of which you pointed out in your reply.

    Sorry for the typos.  I went to school for Accounting and Finance hahah.

  • Investor · Gresham, OR · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    I'm totally stealing that J-curve analogy.  I've never heard it described but always the big risk especially when we do take out loans with people who have started rehab.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    to ad d a little color to the conversation I first started in the HML space in the mid 80s in SF bay Area as a CA RE broker.
    My dad had used HML or private money since the late 60s in Northern CA.

    in those days 70s and 80s most hard money or a lot of it was 80 10 10 on owner occ.. because you could not get more than 80% loan to buy a home .. So the broker I worked for in those days did literally thousands of those small seconds and of course a lot of firsts.. rates were 5 and 15 1 to 3 year terms.. I used it to buy my second home in 81  120k  12k cash down 12k second that i paid off in 3 years at 15%  etc.

    So we were all going along well and then the thrifts and S and Ls jumped into the space and cut our rates.. so we had to get more creative.. we were still pretty much at 20% apr. And that continued up until the GFC with mid west rates much higher than west coast since the loans were so much smaller.. it was common to write loans at 30% apr .. now those were 30 to 50k loans but we did hundreds per year.. And the majority were for BRRR landlords its how they bought mid west turn key.

    Then as you correctly described the last 10 years or so.. 07 to 2011 many got wiped out.. Myself included. not totally but i had a book at 35 million our own money and 28 million of bank LOC that we tagged to lend money. those froze over night in the GFC.. and there went my company from 24 employees to 4 within a year and we basically disbanded.

    the companies that started as you said in the 2 and 12 4 and 14 market of 2010 to 2014 did very well.. then its exactly like you said big money came in.. you dont need big margins when U have 100 mil to lend compared to the smaller 10 to 20 million size companies.. and the price war was on .. Especially in CA.. Oregon remained a little higher and the mid west and East coast stayed pretty high as well..So will be interesting to see how it all shakes out

    @Dane Fitch  I see you work with lending home.. I looked at broker for them for a while but the price stucture was so low it was hard to really make any money at least what i am used to making.. but i love their pricing matrix. One of my clients uses them a lot back east and he said 2 days ago they lowered the LTVs a bit and raised rates a tad.

    Will be interesting to see if this turmoil of the last month actually creates a lot of defaults.

  • Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs, thank you for adding context.  It is interesting how history tends to repeat itself in different forms.  A few of my investors have been lending since the 80's.  How does the phrase go?  You could put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day, it is still a pig?

    Thanks again and I hope you and your family are staying healthy.

  • Investor · Gresham, OR · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs Yeah it's been a wild ride.  We actually have a new broker program that a lot of brokers like.  I think it restarted about 4 months ago.  better fees and monthly interest play. Just like everyone else we did lower leverage to 80% purchase price, no more than 70K in rehab and added 1% to loan rates.  No change in points as we've chosen to add to the processing fee instead until capital markets come back.  I think our best play has been to allow an 18 and 24 month product.  People are able to get some really good deals right now, but they want the security of holding it and waiting this out.  12 month loans might not do that.  These are especially helpful as all the non QM rental loans stopped.

           Jay, do you mind if I ask, if you were a medium size fix and flip and occasional hold investor right now, what would you be doing or looking for?  Or would you step back also and wait for clarity?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Dane Fitch:

    @Jay Hinrichs Yeah it's been a wild ride.  We actually have a new broker program that a lot of brokers like.  I think it restarted about 4 months ago.  better fees and monthly interest play. Just like everyone else we did lower leverage to 80% purchase price, no more than 70K in rehab and added 1% to loan rates.  No change in points as we've chosen to add to the processing fee instead until capital markets come back.  I think our best play has been to allow an 18 and 24 month product.  People are able to get some really good deals right now, but they want the security of holding it and waiting this out.  12 month loans might not do that.  These are especially helpful as all the non QM rental loans stopped.

           Jay, do you mind if I ask, if you were a medium size fix and flip and occasional hold investor right now, what would you be doing or looking for?  Or would you step back also and wait for clarity? 

    Its bizz as usual for us right now. if its great deal we move on it.. tied one up in vegas Friday.. my wife listed one of our fixers in Gresham on Sunday and had multiple offers and we went pending with a back up by Wed.  for 20k more than I thought it was worth.. 

    and we are getting ready to start 30 specs in Canby in late May.

    smart move on the 18 to 24 month notes.. that's one thing that borrowers get pretty upset about is when a loan goes over the 9 or 12 month period and another 1 to 4 points is added on and or the rate jumps..  Ya my PA guy was telling me that instead of raising points they just added in a junk fee which income is income no matter how you get it as a lender..  

    Its kind of amusing though I see a lot of HUDS.. and people really focus on the points.. but then the lender has 3k in junk fees and it turns out to be a 3 to 4 point loan if you add it all up anyway.. but they advertise low points.

    Bottom line though you simply cant stay in business as a HML without making 4 to 5k per file MINIMUM on up front fee's the interest is just a small delta as we all borrow from some facility or pay investors.. its not many HML that are loan their OWN CASH exclusively. but borrowers don't see it that way either.. they think the 10% or 12% is pure profit .. which of course is not the case.

  • Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs, what you described is a main reason why we gained a lot of clients over the past couple of years.  We would see great pricing out there for a 6 or 9 month loan on a rehab that would take a minimum of 9 months to complete with no set backs.  Then extension fees would get tacked on for 1-3 months that more times than not would be more expensive than the original loan.  Great marketing on the front end but that dance can only happen so many times.

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