Is Creative Financing Becoming the New Subprime Lending?

Is Creative Financing Becoming the New Subprime Lending?

Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes

Rising interest rates have hurt everyone’s buying power (except cash buyers obviously), and inventory is locked up because nobody wants to move and give up their historically-low interest rate. Word on the street is we’ll never see those rates again in our lifetime.

Having alternative strategies in your back pocket can be very helpful in putting deals together. That’s why more people are looking into different options such as seller-finance, subject to, wraps, lease options, etc. “Creative Financing” 

However, not many people are talking about the additional risks.

For example, with seller-financing: the worst case scenario is a buyer doesn’t make payments. No problem, seller has the promissory note and just takes the property back. Great, except “taking the property back” means foreclosing . Foreclosing sucks. It takes a long time and costs a lot of time and money. Plus, usually no payments are coming in during that time, the tenant(s) may need to be evicted, the property usually sits vacant and comes back in worse condition. Someone still has to cover taxes, insurance, and upkeep during the foreclosure.

Subject to is a similar half-truth: “If the bank exercises their right to enforce the due on sale clause, just deed the property back to the seller and use an executory contract: contract for deed, lease option, land contract instead.” But the bank usually still exercises their right to enforce the DOSC because title changing hands meets the bank definition of a sale. Also, each time you transfer the deed the IRS wants their cut. Not to mention closing costs. Not to mention that executory contracts don’t have the same benefits that sub to does because in a C4D the buyer does not have title and seller can easily cloud title or the seller can get a judgment against them or lien that attaches to the property. This can also cause issues with both title insurance and homeowner’s/landlord insurance. 

Every strategy has its appropriate time and place. But any sellers looking to "become the bank" should be vetting buyers like any other lender would. It doesn't seem like many are as creative financing becomes more mainstream.

$0 down deal structures with "infinite returns" are du jour. People are doing deals and capturing zero equity or cashflow, just to get properties with low interest rates, which is what we used to call being “over-leveraged". 

Too many owners being over-leveraged is what lead to massive foreclosures in the last big downturn 2008-2010.

Many buyers looking to use creative finance wouldn't make it through underwriting, which makes them sub-prime borrowers.

Is Creative Financing Becoming the New Subprime Lending?

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y

in my experience over the decades were I have done quite a few owner carry and quite a few sub to.

And we were doing wraps back in the carter years when rates were double what they are today.

So lots of experience both good and bad.

from my point of view seller carry back IE seller owns the property free and clear and wish's to owner finance.. this can be pretty safe in some states high risk in others.. whats the difference the difference is foreclosure time lines. @Rick Pozos  AS Rick noted he has not had issue when had to foreclose but he is also in Texas VERY short time lines..But you do the same transaction in Mortgage states were forclosures are judicial and time lines are years.. NY being one that can be really bad. So to me on that front its state specific and mortgage compared to deed of trust Trustee sales.

On Sub to the risk falls almost exclusively on the Seller.. And what this does is open up a lot of transactions for undercapitalized investor who talk a great game and sellers are not experinced or do not consult attorney or Broker to the risks.. And the next thing they know the smooth talking guy / gal who took the course .. Has no real money and realizes hey the mortgage is not in my name and well there is no equity so I cant sell it I would have to come out of pocket and well I think I will just stop paying and collect Rents until the bank forecloses thereby trashing the orignal sellers credit and basically ruining their life.. those are the deals I have personally seen and that is why I am very much opposed to Sub too as a long term investment by Most investors who simply dont have the capacity to carry a deal if the tenant stops paying etc.. or is Bent and believe me there are tons of Bent folks out there that will think nothing of screwing nice people.   And I dont care who teachs this Morby  the sub to guys on Bp  myself anyone this is a huge risk to sellers.

Then you have owners who have debt and want to wrap the loan and sell and make the delta I like this the best as they will stay in the game  they have control of the underlying debt and they have a document ( all inclusive Deed of Trust) that they can foreclose out the owner finance buyer.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Mike GrudzienPro Member
    Lender · Eugene, OR · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Steve,
    KUDOs!  Quite the analysis and spot on.  You seem to have delineated all the current pitfalls. Thank you!

  • Wholesaler, Rehabber and Landlord · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    Foreclosing on someone is the "Big Bad Wolf" until you have done it a few times. It does cost some money for the attorney, takes some months to get done and YES the property will come back in worse shape. This is all part of the game. Rentals come back with issues when tenants move out just like foreclosures.

    It's never a great situation to take a property back. The ones that I have done, we talked with the homeowner all the way through it. They could not pay and they knew that we had to have money or the house back. They were never mad at us or took revenge on the house. It does happen though. The horror stories should be the "Worse Case Scenario", they are not the norm, for us at least.

    As mentioned above, scrutinize your buyers. Since about 2015, when we sell owner finance, we go through an RMLO and get at least 10% down. Have not had any issues since then. No foreclosures in about 10 years.

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Rick Pozos:

    Foreclosing on someone is the "Big Bad Wolf" until you have done it a few times. It does cost some money for the attorney, takes some months to get done and YES the property will come back in worse shape. This is all part of the game. Rentals come back with issues when tenants move out just like foreclosures.

    It's never a great situation to take a property back. The ones that I have done, we talked with the homeowner all the way through it. They could not pay and they knew that we had to have money or the house back. They were never mad at us or took revenge on the house. It does happen though. The horror stories should be the "Worse Case Scenario", they are not the norm, for us at least.

    As mentioned above, scrutinize your buyers. Since about 2015, when we sell owner finance, we go through an RMLO and get at least 10% down. Have not had any issues since then. No foreclosures in about 10 years.

    I have not ever had to foreclose thankfully, I’ve just heard a few horror stories. Glad to hear from someone with firsthand experience. I think we can all agree that the potential risks involved are something to consider prior to selling a property using seller finance. 
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Steve K.

    100% agree which is why I am against people doing seller financing

    They are investing in a security instrument that is typically over leveraged because they may sell a $200k home for $220k, and get 7-8% taxed at ordinary income

    I can invest in other investments and get 8-10% taxed as qualified dividends or get depreciation and have ltv’s below 70%… throw in these borrowers are typically not underwritten properly and have a high chance of failure and I scratch my head why people think this is a great idea

    I think a lot will learn the hard way in the next 2-3 years

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  • Lender · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 60 votes
    2y

    The DOS is like the boogyman! 🤣 It does not get called all that often and most times when it does you can work around it. Creative finance is definitely a great strategy right now. I think we only run into problems when people are not underwriting and not operating properly. If too many bad sub to investor screw up deals or provide false information to the seller we have see Uncle Sam come down with new regulations. There is a time to create chaos and there is also a time you better know your 💩

    No equity / no cashflow deals do have their place for certain investors. Sometimes the depreciation alone is worth taking a loss for a few years. Then down the road as you raise rents and you find yourself cash flowing. Also the property has appreciated and built in equity over that time as well. Do not get me wrong this is not a strategy I would use, but just like the rest of the creative strategies out there it has its place and time when it can be useful. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y

    in my experience over the decades were I have done quite a few owner carry and quite a few sub to.

    And we were doing wraps back in the carter years when rates were double what they are today.

    So lots of experience both good and bad.

    from my point of view seller carry back IE seller owns the property free and clear and wish's to owner finance.. this can be pretty safe in some states high risk in others.. whats the difference the difference is foreclosure time lines. @Rick Pozos  AS Rick noted he has not had issue when had to foreclose but he is also in Texas VERY short time lines..But you do the same transaction in Mortgage states were forclosures are judicial and time lines are years.. NY being one that can be really bad. So to me on that front its state specific and mortgage compared to deed of trust Trustee sales.

    On Sub to the risk falls almost exclusively on the Seller.. And what this does is open up a lot of transactions for undercapitalized investor who talk a great game and sellers are not experinced or do not consult attorney or Broker to the risks.. And the next thing they know the smooth talking guy / gal who took the course .. Has no real money and realizes hey the mortgage is not in my name and well there is no equity so I cant sell it I would have to come out of pocket and well I think I will just stop paying and collect Rents until the bank forecloses thereby trashing the orignal sellers credit and basically ruining their life.. those are the deals I have personally seen and that is why I am very much opposed to Sub too as a long term investment by Most investors who simply dont have the capacity to carry a deal if the tenant stops paying etc.. or is Bent and believe me there are tons of Bent folks out there that will think nothing of screwing nice people.   And I dont care who teachs this Morby  the sub to guys on Bp  myself anyone this is a huge risk to sellers.

    Then you have owners who have debt and want to wrap the loan and sell and make the delta I like this the best as they will stay in the game  they have control of the underlying debt and they have a document ( all inclusive Deed of Trust) that they can foreclose out the owner finance buyer.

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jonathan Killam:

    The DOS is like the boogyman! 🤣 It does not get called all that often and most times when it does you can work around it. Creative finance is definitely a great strategy right now. I think we only run into problems when people are not underwriting and not operating properly. If too many bad sub to investor screw up deals or provide false information to the seller we have see Uncle Sam come down with new regulations. There is a time to create chaos and there is also a time you better know your 💩

    No equity / no cashflow deals do have their place for certain investors. Sometimes the depreciation alone is worth taking a loss for a few years. Then down the road as you raise rents and you find yourself cash flowing. Also the property has appreciated and built in equity over that time as well. Do not get me wrong this is not a strategy I would use, but just like the rest of the creative strategies out there it has its place and time when it can be useful. 

    Rents and values don’t always go up though hence my comparison to subprime loans in the GFC… any deals being done with little or no equity in them are high risk IMP. Through the lens of risk vs. reward, probably not worth it just for depreciation benefits in my book! Rent doesn’t always get paid either. Some of the deal structures on these are overly complicated and involve way too many people, more like a house of cards than an investment strategy. 
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Steve K.:
    Quote from @Jonathan Killam:

    The DOS is like the boogyman! 🤣 It does not get called all that often and most times when it does you can work around it. Creative finance is definitely a great strategy right now. I think we only run into problems when people are not underwriting and not operating properly. If too many bad sub to investor screw up deals or provide false information to the seller we have see Uncle Sam come down with new regulations. There is a time to create chaos and there is also a time you better know your 💩

    No equity / no cashflow deals do have their place for certain investors. Sometimes the depreciation alone is worth taking a loss for a few years. Then down the road as you raise rents and you find yourself cash flowing. Also the property has appreciated and built in equity over that time as well. Do not get me wrong this is not a strategy I would use, but just like the rest of the creative strategies out there it has its place and time when it can be useful. 

    Rents and values don’t always go up though hence my comparison to subprime loans in the GFC… any deals being done with little or no equity in them are high risk IMP. Through the lens of risk vs. reward, probably not worth it just for depreciation benefits in my book! Rent doesn’t always get paid either. Some of the deal structures on these are overly complicated and involve way too many people, more like a house of cards than an investment strategy. 

    ya there is going to be some spectacular flaming crash's coming up with these folks structuring these deals this way.. hard to use Facebook as your deal structuring bible.. so much is just total ignorance and then its propagated. And the followers just take it as fact. By the time it gets 4 places down the chain its all messed up.
  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Steve K.

    100% agree which is why I am against people doing seller financing

    They are investing in a security instrument that is typically over leveraged because they may sell a $200k home for $220k, and get 7-8% taxed at ordinary income

    I can invest in other investments and get 8-10% taxed as qualified dividends or get depreciation and have ltv’s below 70%… throw in these borrowers are typically not underwritten properly and have a high chance of failure and I scratch my head why people think this is a great idea

    I think a lot will learn the hard way in the next 2-3 years

    I’m not against seller financing, I’ve used it a few times personally to purchase in order to accelerate my ability to build my portfolio. But I captured equity at purchase then more quickly through value add then refinanced into long term loans before the balloon. I also had the funds to buy the properties with cash if I wanted to, so I wasn’t a subprime borrower. 
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Steve K.:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Steve K.

    100% agree which is why I am against people doing seller financing

    They are investing in a security instrument that is typically over leveraged because they may sell a $200k home for $220k, and get 7-8% taxed at ordinary income

    I can invest in other investments and get 8-10% taxed as qualified dividends or get depreciation and have ltv’s below 70%… throw in these borrowers are typically not underwritten properly and have a high chance of failure and I scratch my head why people think this is a great idea

    I think a lot will learn the hard way in the next 2-3 years

    I’m not against seller financing, I’ve used it a few times personally to purchase in order to accelerate my ability to build my portfolio. But I captured equity at purchase then more quickly through value add then refinanced into long term loans before the balloon. I also had the funds to buy the properties with cash if I wanted to, so I wasn’t a subprime borrower. 

     I am not against it for the right person, but many people think that its a great way to get into real estate when you have no money and cannot qualify for a traditional loan, in that instance, its a really bad idea and mostly does not end well. 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Steve K.:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Steve K.

    100% agree which is why I am against people doing seller financing

    They are investing in a security instrument that is typically over leveraged because they may sell a $200k home for $220k, and get 7-8% taxed at ordinary income

    I can invest in other investments and get 8-10% taxed as qualified dividends or get depreciation and have ltv’s below 70%… throw in these borrowers are typically not underwritten properly and have a high chance of failure and I scratch my head why people think this is a great idea

    I think a lot will learn the hard way in the next 2-3 years

    I’m not against seller financing, I’ve used it a few times personally to purchase in order to accelerate my ability to build my portfolio. But I captured equity at purchase then more quickly through value add then refinanced into long term loans before the balloon. I also had the funds to buy the properties with cash if I wanted to, so I wasn’t a subprime borrower. 

     I am not against it for the right person, but many people think that its a great way to get into real estate when you have no money and cannot qualify for a traditional loan, in that instance, its a really bad idea and mostly does not end well. 


    for certain its just like any business under capitalized business fail at an alarming rate.
  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    What I never understood with some seller finance sellers is that their buyer could not qualify for a traditional loan, yet the owner of the house feels comfortable enough to lend to these same buyers?

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Steve K.:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Steve K.

    100% agree which is why I am against people doing seller financing

    They are investing in a security instrument that is typically over leveraged because they may sell a $200k home for $220k, and get 7-8% taxed at ordinary income

    I can invest in other investments and get 8-10% taxed as qualified dividends or get depreciation and have ltv’s below 70%… throw in these borrowers are typically not underwritten properly and have a high chance of failure and I scratch my head why people think this is a great idea

    I think a lot will learn the hard way in the next 2-3 years

    I’m not against seller financing, I’ve used it a few times personally to purchase in order to accelerate my ability to build my portfolio. But I captured equity at purchase then more quickly through value add then refinanced into long term loans before the balloon. I also had the funds to buy the properties with cash if I wanted to, so I wasn’t a subprime borrower. 

     I am not against it for the right person, but many people think that its a great way to get into real estate when you have no money and cannot qualify for a traditional loan, in that instance, its a really bad idea and mostly does not end well. 


    100% agree

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    When lending dries up seller finance is all there is. Will financing ever dry up again? Who knows but we do know larger banks are more interested in wealth management than they are in 30 year low interest loans.

    Back in the olden days there were no loans for small investors and if you had over 4 units you were considered commercial and that was the end. Older landlords were the go to for contract purchases and then opportunities for young investors and buyers. I liked graduated interest rates low for the buyer to get in good for the seller later on with the idea property to be improved and financed out or sold.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Steve K.:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Steve K.:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Steve K.

    100% agree which is why I am against people doing seller financing

    They are investing in a security instrument that is typically over leveraged because they may sell a $200k home for $220k, and get 7-8% taxed at ordinary income

    I can invest in other investments and get 8-10% taxed as qualified dividends or get depreciation and have ltv’s below 70%… throw in these borrowers are typically not underwritten properly and have a high chance of failure and I scratch my head why people think this is a great idea

    I think a lot will learn the hard way in the next 2-3 years

    I’m not against seller financing, I’ve used it a few times personally to purchase in order to accelerate my ability to build my portfolio. But I captured equity at purchase then more quickly through value add then refinanced into long term loans before the balloon. I also had the funds to buy the properties with cash if I wanted to, so I wasn’t a subprime borrower. 

     I am not against it for the right person, but many people think that its a great way to get into real estate when you have no money and cannot qualify for a traditional loan, in that instance, its a really bad idea and mostly does not end well. 


    100% agree


    keep in mind some folks may have been transferred and their current home is not sold yet.. I have sold on contract twice to this situation and got paid off within 20 months..  And investors I have sold to are just looking for a deal.. been selling my OREO props that way for over 20 years.
  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Also properties that are not financeable like no foundation and/or terrible condition good for owner carry. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Denver CO · Member since 2019 · 210 posts · 332 votes
    2y

    Great thoughts Steve, very informative.  Always learn a lot from you regarding local market knowledge and broader RE.

    Question to all,

    I'm new to this concept.  V.G. Jason made a good point above...what are the benefits to sellers?  I see the value if I'm facing a massive tax bill, receive a 50%+ DP, or I could see the value if I'm offering seller financing to a qualified buyer will owner occupy.  Otherwise, the risk seems to far outweigh the upside.  What am I missing?

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marcus R.:

    Great thoughts Steve, very informative.  Always learn a lot from you regarding local market knowledge and broader RE.

    Question to all,

    I'm new to this concept.  V.G. Jason made a good point above...what are the benefits to sellers?  I see the value if I'm facing a massive tax bill, receive a 50%+ DP, or I could see the value if I'm offering seller financing to a qualified buyer will owner occupy.  Otherwise, the risk seems to far outweigh the upside.  What am I missing?

     The primary benefit to the seller is they make more money from the sale because the extra interest payments that the buyer makes over the term of the seller-finance loan adds to their net proceeds. It's common in my experience for the interest rate and down payment to be higher than normal also. Typically the interest rate is a point or more above conventional, and down payment is over 25%, at least in my experience but buyers and sellers negotiate whatever they can of course. Some of the deals I've been saying lately with lower than conventional interest rates and low or no down payment are abnormal IMO and I think some sellers are just being taken advantage of. 

    Another benefit depending on the seller's tax situation is that they can spread their cap gains and depreciation recapture tax hits out over several years rather than paying it on the lump sum in a typical sale. 

    A lot of sellers are burned-out landlords who like the idea of "passive income"/mailbox money after years of chasing late rent payments, dealing with tenant BS and maintaining the property (I use quotes for "passive income" b/c no income is truly passive IMO, a wise seller will still pay attention to what's happening with the property in case they need to take it back, but collecting payments like a bank is generally easier than collecting them like a landlord, you can set up ACH with the buyer's bank or hire a loan processing company to handle it). 

    A smart seller should only seller-finance to someone with good credit, adequate reserves, a nice down payment etc. and underwrite the deal like a normal bank would, but I've been seeing more and more situations where unqualified buyers are acquiring properties this way. 

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    I don't think so. Creative financing usually becomes popular when either 1) interest rates rise or 2) the credit market freezes.

    So seller financing became really popular in the 70s and early 80s because interest rates had skyrocketed. And subject to became really popular after the 2008 crash because it was almost impossible to get a loan.

    Neither of these things have teaser rates and usually (although definitely not always) the (mostly) investors getting creative financing aren't in terrible financial shape. Also, the amount of creative financing going on pales in comparison to the amount of subprime lending pre-2008. I really don't think there's much of a comparison. 

  • Samuel CoronadoPro Member
    Investor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2016 · 348 posts · 182 votes
    2y

    It worries me too. I've seen a lot of people, especially wholesalers, take advantage of people in bad financial times by doing a 0 down seller financing deal only for that wholesaler to then seller finance their position out as well to an end buyer. It's a double seller financing with an existing bank mortgage. Oftentimes, I've seen the target end buyer be a Hispanic immigrant who may not know all the risks and legalities involved. I'm sure many of these contracts aren't being properly recorded with a new deed as well. In 2007, we saw horror stories of people who faithfully made their mortgage payments only to get foreclosed on later because they didn't actually own the house and the person they were making payments to wasn't paying the bank. It all went in their pocket and the person walked off into the sunset until the FBI found them later. Still the end buyer family was kicked out and lost all that had been invested in the house. I agree that banks can be a bit overbearing sometimes, but there is should be some tighter restrictions on the daisy-chaining of these properties, sub-to, seller financing, etc. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

    I don't think so. Creative financing usually becomes popular when either 1) interest rates rise or 2) the credit market freezes.

    So seller financing became really popular in the 70s and early 80s because interest rates had skyrocketed. And subject to became really popular after the 2008 crash because it was almost impossible to get a loan.

    Neither of these things have teaser rates and usually (although definitely not always) the (mostly) investors getting creative financing aren't in terrible financial shape. Also, the amount of creative financing going on pales in comparison to the amount of subprime lending pre-2008. I really don't think there's much of a comparison. 


    one usually gets premium pricing and premium interest rate. 
  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

    I don't think so. Creative financing usually becomes popular when either 1) interest rates rise or 2) the credit market freezes.

    So seller financing became really popular in the 70s and early 80s because interest rates had skyrocketed. And subject to became really popular after the 2008 crash because it was almost impossible to get a loan.

    Neither of these things have teaser rates and usually (although definitely not always) the (mostly) investors getting creative financing aren't in terrible financial shape. Also, the amount of creative financing going on pales in comparison to the amount of subprime lending pre-2008. I really don't think there's much of a comparison. 


     I hear you, especially on that last point. I guess my question is more of a hypothetical if it gets to be more mainstream, since it’s become such a hot talking point for coaches, mentors, gurus, writers etc. I hear agents talking about it who don’t work with investors and have more retail-type buyers and sellers asking about it, so it seems to be becoming more mainstream. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Denver CO · Member since 2019 · 210 posts · 332 votes
    2y

    Makes sense, thanks @Steve K..  Guess it seems like you're investing in the buyer and the buyer probably matters more than the terms, provided the terms are generally reasonable.

  • Contractor · shelby · Member since 2022 · 60 posts · 42 votes
    2y

    I"M just now looking at creative financing but I have bought several properties over they years as an owner financed deal. Every time I have been a part of it I was buying a property that needed work. I am a licensed gc in my state here in Shelby NC and I typically had the properties back in rentable condition within a couple of months. In our case it was adventageous for the seller I"d like to think and we got several deals with other sellers after they saw us purchase, rehab and pay off our first owners. Most of the owners we purchased from had a recent horrible experience with a tenant destroying thier property and didn't have funds or expertice to repair and rerent. We were able to get the properties and put in some sweat equity and they were able to take a non producing asset and get an instant income back for a season. Had we defaulted they would have had a much better property than when we first took possesion however I do know that this is not always the case. I think us having the ability and history of repair and get rent ready along with 2 decades of landlord experience help when we do owner finance deals. With all the passive income videos circulating facebook and google I can see where selling owner financing could be dangerous for someone but if they do thier homework on the potential buyer and stay with folks that have a proven track record it can work out good for both sides. It can also avoid tons in capital gains if it's spread out far enough. JMO. Great article by the way

  • Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Steve K.

    I'm not sure if its new...  Certainly increased given the market conditions and the advertising its increased.  Maybe its part of the nonprime space as well as the subprime.

    I think it might find itself in some strange grey area, because of lack of knowledge or sophistication.  I thought owner-occupied Notes were trading well, but had double digit yields.  If I understood the Note market space better, I could see if seller financing at ~10% and after seasoning sell off the Note.

    Yet, people are doing such a wide range of single digit yields.  As mentioned, some people, be they investors or just owners, see how great it would be to generate what they think is a steady income -- just with a huge counterparty risk if they are extending credit to a nonprime or subprime borrower...

    As mentioned, using this strategy when you don't have the resources and/or credit to back this is a recipe for a bunch of disasters.  No one really advertises this, but you do and can lose money investing in real estate.

    Perhaps when there are more defaults, etc that hit the mainstream media, the risks will become more apparent.  Otherwise, I think the main issue is "creative financing" still requires "desperate" sellers, those that have a particular massive "pain" that just needs to be relieved in anyway.  I find it kinda sad this occurs instead of getting the best/highest value out of their property, at least sometimes I figure.

    @Marcus R. You asked about the benefits of this to sellers:  I'd just like to add that sometimes, depending on your financial situation/history, outright selling sometimes doesn't have the huge tax hit "they" keep telling you.  I've been tracking/waiting for over 20years now that I'm liquidating my portfolio.  So, sometimes the "benefits" are from ignorance.

    Additional "ignorance" is the seller, especially an investor, is really a one-trick-pony, for lack of better term, and only knew how to invest in real estate rentals.  So in the case of a "tired landlord," if you offer them 6%-7%, perhaps, they jump at it because they see it a good return.  They don't realize, or can't consider investing in any other asset or asset class and see a similar or better yield/return  --- I guess kinda a pet peeve of mine.

    So, in reality I don't see seller financing helping the seller sometimes, in the grand scheme --- but it maybe the best they know how to move forward.  Meanwhile, it entirely benefits the buyer while pitching how much its helping out the seller.... (sigh)

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