Fund & Grow Financing

Fund & Grow Financing

Justin SheleyBusiness Member
Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2016 · 94 posts · 220 votes

After listening to the Clayton Morris podcast (EP115 with Mike Banks) about the company Fund & Grow, I became intrigued with the idea of using business credit cards to buy rental properties using the BRRRR method. The whole concept seemed too good to be true, so I hopped on BiggerPockets to see what people were saying about Fund & Grow. I always find great content here, and more often than not I find the answer to my question before I even need to post and ask about it. However, with Fund & Grow, I didn't find much. (If anyone knows of a discussion about Fund & Grow that I didn't find please link me to it) There are a few discussions where people were considering using Fund & Grow to finance a deal, but none that I saw that went all the way through the process and used the funds to find a deal.

That being said, I decided to start this discussion post and share my experience with the company from day 1 till I refinance and hopefully complete the BRRRR method.

For anyone not familiar with Fund & Grow, they are a company started by Ari Page that helps you establish business lines of credit for the purpose of creating working capital for small businesses. In my case, I will be using the line of credit to buy properties in Rockford, IL and rehab them into rental properties.

Phase 1:

Currently I have enrolled with Fund & Grow and completed my initial consultation. This cost $3,000 for their service of negotiating and securing the business credit cards. I spent 1 hr on the phone with a very friendly consultant and discussed my plans for the business credit and established a sole proprietorship for both my wife and I. This allows the business lines of credit to not affect my personal credit score.  The first push for business credit will begin next week, and I should have access to an anticipated 60k by the following week. My wife is not currently receiving accounts yet until a more established credit history can be created for her.  We are currently lining up several refinancing options with banks in the area so that they are aware of what we intend to do. Currently we are being told that we can refinance the properties we buy with cash after 6 months. This is key for us, because we intend to buy and hold these properties and do not want to get stuck after the initial 12 months of 0% interest expires on our business credit cards.

Phase 2 is going to be actually receiving the cash into our account and making our cash purchase. I tried for brevity sake to not go into the entire Fund & Grow concept in my initial post, but if anyone has any questions, comments, or concerns I'd love to discuss them.

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Lender · Peabody, MA · Member since 2015 · 82 posts · 49 votes
9y
I used a similar system to receive roughly $40,000 in credit cards at 0% for a 12 month period. The company I used took 10% upfront and then helped me liquidate everything so I had usable funds fairly quick. I was able to do a flip with the funding I received and pay back all the money before my interest free period ran out. It was expensive, but the flip more than covered everything and I was able to get in the game. I would do it all over again if I had to.
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  • Financial Advisor · Boynton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 834 posts · 798 votes
    7y

    @Parius Futch

    The topic of leveraging the cash value of properly-designed permanent life insurance was thoroughly covered here...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/519/topics/245380-paradigm-life-infinite-banking-whole-life-insurance?page=3

  • Financial Advisor · Boynton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 834 posts · 798 votes
    7y

    @Erick Barraza

    Some technical corrections...

    1. The illustration that accompanies the policy will generally show 90% cash value relative to the premium that was paid. Keep in mind that the illustration is showing estimated values at the end of year 1, not at the beginning. The 1st year dividend is included in that value.

    2. That said, the insurance company takes the policy issue charges and cost of insurance monthly. This means that you start with a high cash value balance and it is reduced as the first year progresses. If you take a policy loan for 90%, you may find yourself having to put cash in the policy late in the year because there is not enough unsecured cash value to cover the policy's costs and your loan.

    3. Policy loans are not "unsecured loans". The cash value is the collateral securing the loan. If you get a cash value line of credit from a 3d party bank, they'll want an assignment of collateral against your policy's cash value.

    4. Only the cash value is "earning". The entire premium does not grow at 5-6% as you state. I have a "life insurance 101" that gets into the mechanics of life insurance policies...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

  • Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 14 posts · 7 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Erick Barraza:

    If you get it structured correctly (a big IF) you can get money within 24 hours after the premiums clear. For instance, MassMutual has a high early cash value policy that can be structured 10/90. As in 10% of the premium payment goes towards the death benefit and 90% goes toward the cash value. So if you sent 10k to MassMutual you can get 9k within 24 hours. Meanwhile the 10k is growing immediately at 5-6% tax free. This leverages unsecured lines of credit to get a growing secured line of credit with a low interest rate. Hence the term "infinite banking" concept.

    Where are the funds to repay the credit cards coming from? Are you buying the properties with cash, using delayed financing to get the homes under a mortgage and then paying off the credit cards?

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    Maxing our the business credit cards in order to buy whole life and then using the cash value to buy a fourplex with an all-in-one loan (i.e. 30 year HELOC). Send all of the cashflow to the HELOC until the cards promotional APR runs out and then pay the cards in full to minimize interest costs.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Stockton, CA · Member since 2014 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    Originally posted by @Erick Barraza:

    Maxing our the business credit cards in order to buy whole life and then using the cash value to buy a fourplex with an all-in-one loan (i.e. 30 year HELOC). Send all of the cashflow to the HELOC until the cards promotional APR runs out and then pay the cards in full to minimize interest costs.

    Have you completed a transaction using this method? Did you use Mass Mutual?

  • Investor · Bowie, MD · Member since 2016 · 143 posts · 51 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Kathia L.:
    Originally posted by @Jennifer Bacani:

    I worked with Sabrina at F&G and she helped me secure over $40k in credit on the first round. I was very happy with the support and guidance she provided along the way. She was responsive and knowledgeable and kept me updated on the progress. The information she provided was helpful. I would highly recommend their service. I truly feel I have benefited a lot from working with F&G. 

     Hi Jennifer, 

    Any updates with fund and Grow ? Hows your  second round going? Thanks. 

    No one can tell us what they did with the funds, I find that odd. Also people who posted here hasnt followed up on what they did. Most of the members that used them only had 1-3 post. lol Its probably chatbots. 

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    My brother just got 20k from 2 credit cards and is in the midst of the negotiation/reconsideration process to up his credit limits. Once that is complete we will definitely buy whole life. If you want more information about the infinite banking concept I suggest searching for “IBC Global Inc” on YouTube. He is a life insurance broker who specializes in creating policies for max cash value. After 5-6 years the policy starts self-funding which means no more out of pocket costs while growing tax free. I would also suggest looking into Guardian’s whole life policy because they have an index participation rider which grows minimum 4% or maximum 12.5% based on the performance of the S&P 500. For example, this year if you hadn’t such a policy your growth would have been capped at 12.5% rather than the typical 5-6%. It is a  hybrid of whole life’s ans index universals life. Whatever investment you want to make I strongly believe it would be maximized by using life insurance because it is shielded from lawsuits or bankruptcy.

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    I have listened to that podcast as well. I am excited to hear about your process. It sounds very intriguing. Thank you for sharing! 

  • WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    i suggest folks read this linked thread before doing anything related to Morris or his advice: https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

  • Financial Advisor · Boynton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 834 posts · 798 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Erick Barraza:

    My brother just got 20k from 2 credit cards and is in the midst of the negotiation/reconsideration process to up his credit limits. Once that is complete we will definitely buy whole life. If you want more information about the infinite banking concept I suggest searching for “IBC Global Inc” on YouTube. He is a life insurance broker who specializes in creating policies for max cash value. After 5-6 years the policy starts self-funding which means no more out of pocket costs while growing tax free. I would also suggest looking into Guardian’s whole life policy because they have an index participation rider which grows minimum 4% or maximum 12.5% based on the performance of the S&P 500. For example, this year if you hadn’t such a policy your growth would have been capped at 12.5% rather than the typical 5-6%. It is a  hybrid of whole life’s ans index universals life. Whatever investment you want to make I strongly believe it would be maximized by using life insurance because it is shielded from lawsuits or bankruptcy.

    This sounds totally unethical and borderline criminal. Every life insurance application asks you to disclose the source of funds. If Mass Mutual, or any company for that matter, knew you were using borrowed funds, they would decline the application. You have to lie on the application to get this past the underwriters. That is insurance fraud.

  • David JaffePro Member
    Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Fund and Grow is great! 

    They really know what they're doing and got me funded right away. 

    The way you use the funds is up to you, but they will work with you after you've been funded to get another round or two.

    Thanks Fund and Grow!

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    After being introduced to Fund & Grow Financing through a Les Brown Facebook broadcast, I must say I was impressed because I didn't know I could use credit cards as leverage to grow my real estate investment start up business. More, yet to be revealed as me and my wife are stepping out in faith that this program will delivered as promised as long as we do our part to lower our debt to income ratio. Stay tuned…

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Used Fund&Grow to increase my business credit. Worked with Brandon Kroon from the onset to completion without issue. He professionally and timely helped me obtain the credit funding requested within 45 days

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Many thanks to Fund and Grow for their wonderful work, honest always diligent and especially Bianca for all her patience and careful process with which she makes you believe that you have known her for a lifetime, very grateful for the 31,000, who helped us collect For the business, many successes.

  • Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    First, I have been a paid PRO member of BP since 2013, but not an active poster. However, I do want to add my experience working with Fund and Grow. The process went smoothly, and I had a specific reason for doing it.

    The process of preparing and applying happened exactly as explained. My rep John was responsive and answered all my questions through the process. John handled the actual applications, documentation, and back and forth (requesting higher balances, etc.). I was approved and had access to over $100k in 4 weeks.

    I found other companies that provide similar services during my research, but I saved nearly $6000 in fees at my $100k funding level. For lesser amounts, it could be cheaper to pursue another option.

    I am using the 0% credit to allow shifting of current payments made to credit cards to pay off some loans with higher interest rates, even my car loan. I travel regularly and have substantial business expenses but do not carry balances on any of my personal credit cards. As the installment loans are paid off, those payments will continue but start reducing the 0% card balances.

    By shifting my existing charges to the 0% cards, I am also not paying any convenience fees for accessing the % credit limits and saving substantially on interest on the loans. My total net credit balances owed across all cards and loans is not changing, just the allocation. The cards also have money back on all charges as well as bonuses for charging a certain amount in a certain time frame. With the first $6000 cumulative charged across 2 new cards, I already have more than $750 in new user bonuses and another $120 cash back to be applied to the balance. The credit limits are also available for quick access to funds for earnest money, closing costs, or down payments used in real estate.

    As I come to the end of the 0% term on any card in the next 9-12 months, I can apply for new cards and then continue shifting the remaining balances out to another 9-12 month term. This business card payment history will also help establish business line of credit approval as well for the future.

  • Tomas GonzalezPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    I joined Fundandgrow specifically to fund any expenses that should come up as I get into real estate investing. After the first round which lasted about a month I recieved $44,000 in 0% interest business credit. Which I can use any way I want. 

    Overall my experience with my account manager Michael Richard went very smoothly. 

  • Michael S. OwenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · South Central Pennsylvania · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 8 votes
    7y

    The amount of clearly fake posts on this thread praising Fund & Grow should be an indicator to everyone!  Many of these posts are very similar in how they flow and describe their experience.  The majority of them are also non-pro members, with only one post in their name ever...  Keep that in mind while reading these.  

    That being said...  I worked with Fund & Grow over the last year and I feel they over-promise and under-deliver.  There are a lot of ifs, ands, or buts attached to their deals and I found their support extremely lacking.  While I am not completely disappointed with my fund and grow experience, I am no where near satisfied.  

    The ONLY good thing is that I did receive 5 credit cards with a total available credit of $77,000 (Honestly something anyone can do themselves).  Here are my problems though.

    - One of these credit cards is on my personal credit and they did inform me they were going to do this prior to applying.  I complained, telling them that they repeatedly mention in their presentations that these are business credit cards and will not be reported to your personal credit.  I was given several excuses, main reason being that that they wish to maximize my available credit and that this was necessary to do so...  Needless to say, I rarely use that card as it effects my personal credit.

    - They do not include removal of the inquires from your personal credit in the membership price.  If you wish to have them remove the inquiries you will pay extra.  Alternatively, they will give you a "coaching packet" for you to try and get the inquiries removed on your own.  I chose this method, the packet was outdated and contained old information on the credit bureaus.  Also the only way to (maybe) get these inquiries off your personal credit is to repeatedly ought-right lie to the credit bureaus, and as I have found out, one of the bureaus absolutely will not remove the inquires without you supplying a police report...  I have no intention of filing a false police report stating that I did not ask for credit...  So I am stuck with multiple inquiries on my personal credit.  Additionally, that one personal card I mentioned earlier...   You can't dispute that one at all or they will shut the card down. 

    - I went through multiple representatives during the course of my membership with these guys.  Apparently they have a hard time holding on to employees.  Several times emails and phone calls from me went unanswered, after I called the general number asking why my representative was not responding, I would get an excuse that they supposedly moved to another department and so-and-so would now be helping.

    - The interest free period on these cards ranged from 4 to 14 months.  One was 14 months, One for 12, the rest were 6 months or less.  Additionally, none of them were interest free for cash advances.  Fund & Grow provided me with information on a company called "Gold Money" that I could essentially launder the money through by buying gold on the credit cards then exchanging that for cash.  Problem with that is that it took several weeks to accomplish and there were hefty fees all along the way for buying & selling the gold plus the transferring of the money. 

    - They offer a free week vacation rental for newsletter members ($50 a month).  They offer little information about this on their website once you sign up, probably because they dont want you to take advantage of it.  Once you do ask, they will send you information which clearly states "I agree that I will keep my newsletter subscription active for a one-year period from the date of my stay at the condo".  Better get that condo booked and stay immediately after you become a member as you will be paying $50 a month for a year after you get your vacation as well as up until the point that you finally go on vacation.  The newsletter in my opinion is no where near worth $50 a month either. 

    - They offered free accounting software as part of the membership.  I had to ask several times for this as they did not openly provide it.  Once I did receive it, it looked like something I would have made in my middle school computer class in the 1980s.  It was very rudimentary, archaic, and only half worked as it was supposed to...  Complete waste.

    Overall, if I knew then what I know now, I would not have signed on with them.  I am glad that I now have the credit cards although, I wish I did not blow over $3,500 to get them as with a little research and diligence, I could have obtained the exact same results on my own. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Burlington, VT · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Michael S. Owen  Great post Michael and thank you for sharing!  I agree, if you have good credit you can easily apply and be approved for a variety of cards, both business and personal.  Also agree, to get the funds out as cash is difficult, the 0% interest ends at some point, and it's a lot of juggling of moving pieces to make it all work.

    Personally I use small local banks that provide purchase + rehab financing, and typically it's a commercial loan that doesn't report on my credit.  One closing, no refinancing, no juggling.

    - Tom

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    My wife and I are new to fund and grow and currently we have just finished our first round. Between the both of us we have acquired just under 100k and are very happy. Bianca was my wifes counselor and John Madison was mine. Both were very professional, punctual in answering all questions and overall great to work with. The only thing that I wish the fee would've also covered but did not was removing credit inquiry's . I'm not comfortable with disputing inquiries  and I don't believe i should have to pay for ANOTHER service to do it for me. Our credit scores used to be fairly high and now we have to start over again... Other than our scores we're satisfied with the outcome. Thanks for your help Fund and Grow.

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 100 posts · 140 votes
    7y

    “Too many inquiries “ is a default excuse for a denial, not a reason

  • New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    I have been using Fund and Grow as a source of funding for my real estate investing (fix/flip and notes) for over a year. I worked with John Madison and he was very helpful and helped me obtain over $200K. At first I was skeptical, but the results speak for themselves. I look forward to working with John in the future.

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    I recently began focusing on building my RE business. I've bought some investment real estate over the years but always struggled with getting good (and sufficient) credit to manage operations. Many members of the Replace Your Mortgage team recommended Fund and Grow. It seemed expensive but when I did the math, I saw that the 0% interest credit cards would more than pay for the initial cost. I was assigned my personal rep, Donna Fuller. Donna is professional, friendly and VERY effective! I couldn't be happier with the process and results I've gotten. Donna guided me in acquiring over $50k in personal credit within the first 6 weeks. This has already allowed me to secure two new single family homes which will pay for themselves in the next 4 years. More importantly, the additional credit has allowed me to balance out monthly expenses to ease operating concerns. I can hardly wait to start building business credit later this year!  

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    I just finished my first round with FNG and had a wonderful experience. Holly was extremely personable and walked me through the process. She went above and beyond and did not give up or take no for an answer. I was approved for all the cards applied for and have enough credit to purchase a rental property. I look forward to round two.

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    My experience with Fund&Grow has been great!! John Madison helped me achieve a total of $82,000 and I am looking forward to my next batch!! This funding will help me get my business started and will help me with purchasing the home and achieving the renovations too. Thank you Fund&Grow!!



  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    I heard about them through Clayton Morris. I decided to get on the phone with them and join the program. Although starting out I was very skeptical and worried about the amount of info they were gathering in order to negotiate with the banks on my behalf. But they were very nice to work with, did everything they said they would, along with got us $231,500.00 worth of credit within our first batch of funding which took about 30-40 days. Which means we still have 2 more rounds to go, so we are excited for that. We have already deployed the money to buy some properties along with marketing for our company.

    I would give them a shot if youre looking for money for your business.

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