If you were a private lender-what do you want to know?

Question

If you were watching/reading a presentation letting you know why you should invest money in a group rehabbing real estate for a return-What content is most important? In order of importance?

Rick Pozos · Answer

Most important: has the borrower done this type of transaction before. I would NEVER lend to a first timer. Especially not at the top of the market. Too many things can go wrong to lose my money.

Next few: does the borrower have some liquidity, friends or relatives in the business, how knowledgeable are they in general. Also, what kind of person am I dealing with(financially savy). Why dont they have money of their own.

Shedrick Archangel · Answer

My most importance concern would be how the individual will protect my investment and how would they increase my investment

Dave Peirce · Answer

@James Carollo

Like the others have pointed out, I would want to know their experience flipping homes.  Outside of that, I would want to know their other real estate experience, if they have any construction related experience and examples of such.

As there are differences between being just a GC and being an owner/investor in a property.  Though there can be a fair bit of cross over in skills.

I also don't want to lend on blanket deals.  As flipping is property specific, so I would want to have approval of the loan for each, and in that cause would want to underwrite each (cost, repairs, comps, etc).  So if you are doing specific asks, I would want to see all of that (total and on a sq ft basis).

I would be curious as to exactly what you are doing.  As based upon what I'm hearing you say, it very much sounds like you are getting into the realm of offering securities (just like a syndicator; by asking people without a connection to you to invest in multiple assets, and it sounds like they will be completely passive).  And as such, have you consulted with an attorney with securities experience?  As you will most likely be limited in who you can approach and how.  That is, unless I'm completely mis-reading your post, and you just want to present to others for educational purposes, and if that is the case, I would suggest partnering with flippers that have done so.

I;m also curious by what you mean by "An even better question is why would any licensed and insured GC ever need a real estate investor? Gradually we aren’t at all. Not licensed contractors"  As if you didn't have owners, you would have to supply your own work, either as an owner/investor or as a developer.

Jeff S. · Answer

With all due respect, @James Carollo, I truly have no idea what you wrote.  We loan our own money to local house flippers and I agree with @Rick Pozos.  One of our golden rules is not to loan to those new to flipping.  This means direct experience, ownership, and financial responsibility.

We want to know that you personally and successfully flipped xx number of properties.  Nowhere in your post above do I see that.  Please don’t take this wrong, but I see a lengthy, self-congratulatory, obfuscation. I’m being honest with you.

I mean no offense, James, but if you’ve never actually flipped a home, you don’t have any experience flipping homes.  None. This doesn’t minimize your background.

In addition to experience, we look for humility when we invest in someone.  Note that I wrote “someone.”  When we loan, we loan to you, not a group.

James Carollo · Answer

@Dave Peirce First of all thank you for great feedback. I guess it’s tough to get good info without letting a bunch of seasoned investors and lenders know what I’m personally involved in. That’s what I was trying to do because on the investment side I have quite a bit of accountability. NO SECURITIES! Or anything close. I do come from nonprofit service, grant writing, and an overall environment that can seem to contradict for-profit endeavors. I simply have access to private funds and people around me to make up for my areas of expertise. What I am hearing is great. I did post about the skilled trade shortage and have spoken about it publicly to investors and property management owners. It is a major elephant in the room. 10 years figuring out how to finish flips under budget and on time with all of those left who have not taken lucrative pay in commercial construction. But how do we fill this massive void when the average age of a licensed plumber is 57? People can only speculate about cause and effects on the future but I’d venture to guess we end up with major equity issues. Not as much refinancing bubbly this time but if you can’t find a tradesmen, with a bunch of wealthy people first in line for services, or your repairs are now double what they were-how much equity do you really have. Look, I’ve turned down multiple offers to be acquired by large property management companies. Maybe not the best decision but I set out with one goal- create careers in the ever growing sector of investment property rehab and maintenance. I dumped my money back in time and again developing systems and attempting to find out what can make these careers. Having retired union tradesmen teach classes on site? Yes. Have better pay opportunities based on drive and entrepreneurial spirit? Helping a guy learn a trade AND begin owning his own rentals? So I’m not trying to reinvent any wheels with real estate investing but instead find a way to take the usual return and put in the pockets of career minded millennial tradesmen. Me being 40, I was wrong about the millennials. They absolutely love working with their hands. Many also are entrepreneurial in spirit and appreciate flexibility as a benefit. So-we also have issues with felons not finding jobs, not making massive child support payment while in jail and ending up back there. I think the solution is a job for starters. But there are great non profits to work with on that front. The city has its desires for affordable housing and unfortunately the desire to regulate more and more. There are opportunities to work with them.

So my goal was to create careers and 10 years of W2 employees only on investment properties is something I’m proud to have accomplished (in KC that’s very rare,W2) but you know as well as I do that I made less that way but I needed to see if even possible. And then housing is an essential part of a well functioning American life (not a right) so the owner finance and lease option situations can be beneficial with fair parameters.

Any investor would be investing in actual property. But you can’t warn enough about anything that looks like securities. I do have a wonderful real estate attorney. Definitely.

As far as why do GC need investors? You have about 500 real estate investors or more to every licensed and insured GC in our city. Sometimes the investor brings money and sometimes they use other peoples but mostly they bring education. Most GCs I know also have good relationships with realtors, wholesalers, title companies, inspectors, and even private money all around. A GC has the ability, with efficient systems and the ability to make more decisions, to drastically increase return, add value very quickly, compensate for unexpected, and properly utilize skill levels for maximum quality and efficiency on line items. We also can see future issues more clearly from the get go. A vested interest in the outcome and success of the investment is the only way I can fathom having people to work on houses in the future. So my job is to create careers and the current financial dispersement does not adequately reflect the supply and demand movement of skilled trades. Baby boomers retire-drain gets clogged, you call plumbers, they are all busy, one guy says he can get there today but comes with $300 charge-what do you do? All data points to it being way worse situation than that. Robotics a long way off too unfortunately. It’s obviously not the answer yet.

James Carollo · Answer

I totally appreciate your insight. I don’t agree with your assessment but we haven’t met. I own a profitable business. We don’t need investors. Unless investors can continue to rally up labor and tradesmen. And that’s a puzzle everyone in construction leadership in our country is trying hard and completely failing at any solution. Self congratulatory? You might want to get to know someone better before you speak. I Understand my studies might intimidate you and it’s often males when overcompensate when they feel knowledge is a bit over the head. I get you do the loan thing. And you have golden rules. Money was working a certain way before we came around. I didn’t ask if you thought I was qualified. I described my knowledge thinking someone with innovation and knowledge might pick thru and see if any is pertinent. You know photos of hundreds of flips, international deals I ran from start to finish, etc. I can understand why the urban studies might have thrown you off. I didn’t come here to lay out my plans but get insight into what you look for. My plans are complex. It does involve minority owned business, gentrification blocking strategies, City and land bank cooperation, homes and jobs and training for people who need it. I know the private lenders  and contributors we know certainly care about my degree studies and business endeavors. And frankly you will be fighting for construction company business soon. Big and small.

James Carollo · Answer

An even better question is why would any licensed and insured GC ever need a real estate investor? Gradually we aren’t at all. Not licensed contractors

James Carollo · Answer

Thanks Jeff. I can appreciate your insight. It would be difficult to fully present my background and it’s extensive enough that I can’t imagine a small time real estate investor existing as the trade shortage and increasing regulations push them out. I realize when typing and not talking it could sound as if I’m being arrogant but that’s not the truth but years of research, study, zeroing in on a major problem, and degrees in the subject matter thats beginning to rock the world of real estate in general. White collar blue collar flip they are calling it. Investor/Entrepreneur/Tradesmen. Why didn’t I invest in real estate why flipping 40 homes and running maintenance department? I like my long term odds much better. But time to create the young skilled tradesman/investors. Private money I will be presenting to know me/us (woman owned construction company) That’s not an issue. But in seeking content I wanted to get inside the head of lenders. Everything can be research. Appreciate it

James Carollo · Answer

@Rick Pozos thanks for sharing. I’m looking to get into the mind and motivation of a private lender. Their fears and such. By my title you may have seen I’m a contractor. After running deals from wholesale shopping and estimating to coming back to hit a few things from the buyers inspection-I’ve found my experience is truly off the charts n some areas that investors couldn’t very well experience. When I’m sponsoring years of investor meetups as a vendor and realizing I can contribute to strategy and market condition far above most actually doing desks-I finally said I need to do deals. I’ve been asked why I don’t invest in real estate. I said I’m investing in skilled trade and the organization of labor for property upkeep. Had I invested 10 years ago I may have had more money right now but I would have lost my greatest advantage in the marketplace and for years to come. I figure out how to have affordable rehab despite the shortage of workers that is being ignored-what else do I need? I’ve learned the strategies of so many different kinds of investors. I have hundreds of every kind of rehab you can imagine. I majored in urban studies and learned KC and urban/suburban economic relations. So my money is wrapped up in a 10 year functioning business with deep wells of skilled trade workers. A business that has had offers to purchase by the property managers and groups that know they need it. So I’m putting together a presentation to show people who already know what my experience is. All the numbers. All the data. We are confident in being able to do things in the urban core thst most cannot do or cannot try because of their weaknesses on the ground.

If you were a private lender-what do you want to know?

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