Tax Strategies When MAGI Exceeds $150,000

Tax Strategies When MAGI Exceeds $150,000

Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2023 · 2 posts · 2 votes

Hello, 

I'm a long time lurker but I believe this is my first post.  While I have upcoming meetings with a real estate CPA, attorney, and a financial planner I want to reach out and see if anyone has some insight.

My business partner and I will be purchasing our first rental property this year and could purchase as many as 3 this year. The purchases will be local to us. We're both using HELOC's and expect to be able to cover the cost of the purchase and repairs to our rental property. We plan to utilize the BRRR strategy and intend to force equity. The property will be moved into an LLC. Our rental portfolio is intended to be a long-term buy and hold. We intend to put in some sweat equity on the properties and it's reasonable to expect we could put in 100+ hours each into our real estate investment this year. We also intend to have the property management company I work for manage the property while it's occupied.

My household income exceeds a MAGI of $150k.  I work for a property management property and am a salaried employee.  My day-to-day role is in our brokerage team as a project manager.  I work with our investor clients to write the scope of work, obtain estimates, and oversee the rehab process.

My business partner also likely has a MAGI that exceeds $150k or is at least above $100k.  He works in an unrelated field. 

We both intend to keep our fulltime jobs for the foreseeable future.

I attended BPCON 2023 and attended the panel How To Eliminate Your Taxes–Legally!  Among the topics they discussed included the material participation tests, including the 100 hour participation test.  My understanding of the material participation tests is pretty basic.  

So I have a few questions I hope you can help me with:

1.  If you've been in a similar situation, how did you approach it?  How did you approach depreciation?

2.  If both my partner and I can put more than 100 hours individually into our investments this year, but less than 500 hours, could one of us inadvertently cause the other not to meet the material participation test.  To expand a bit, lets assume we're both working on the same property. Partner A puts in 120 hours and Partner B puts in 101 hours.  Would we both meet the 100 hour material participation test?  If not, would we both meet the 100 hour test if we put in an equal amount of hours (say 120 each)?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Chris

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Basit SiddiqiBusiness Member
Accountant · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 8k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y

There are still benefits of having rental properties if your income is above $150,000.

If you are a joint filing and living in Indiana, it is a good chance that your tax rate is atleast 29%(24% Federal and around 5% for indiana).

If you get $3,600 of cash flow($100 per door per month x 3 properties), that is approximately $1,200 of taxes that you don't have to pay because it will likely be shielded by depreciation.

More properties, more years, and you will have earned a lot of rental income tax free.

It is a whole different conversation if you want to offset rental losses against other forms of income such as W-2.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Sean O'KeefePro Member
    CPA | Accepting new clients | 50 States · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 871 votes
    2y

    @Chris Herring congrats on getting started with the first couple of properties in 2024. 

    To qualify for material participation you need to meet the requirements on an annual basis. There are 7 material participation tests and these are the 3 most common for real estate investors AND you need to meet one of them:

    1. Spend more than 500 hours on your rental business
    2. Do substantially everything for the rental business
    3. Spend more than 100 hours on the activity and no one other individual spends more time than you do

    If you both qualify for material participation this doesn;t create any conflicts.

    Unfortunately, since your income exceeds $150k MAGI AND you mentioned that you are investing in long-term rental properties you will not be eligible for tax advantage of offsetting other non-passive income (W-2, 1099, etc) with any losses from your long-term rental (even if you meet requirements for material participation). As a result, any losses that you incur will be carried forward into tax years until you qualify to use them OR you sell the property. 

    Another way to offset non-passive income (e.g. W-2, 1099, etc.) with passive income/loss from rentals is to meet the IRS requirements for Real Estate Professional Status or REPS (this also requires material participation in addition to specific requirements to be considered a REPS). Based on what you've said it isn't clear if you own a portion of the property management company you work for and this is one of several IRS requirements for REPS.

    When you meet with this CPA you might want to ask about how tax impact is different for long-term vs. short-term vs. flips and the tax strategies available to you. Also, explore conversation around REPS and how owning 5% of the property management company that you work for would help. 

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    *This post does not create a CPA-client relationship. The information contained in this post is not to be relied upon. Readers are advised to seek professional advice.

  • Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Chris Herring

    Doesn't sound like you'll be able to take the losses.  They will stay as Passive Allowed Losses (PAL) and carried over year to year.

    Few things to realize...  If your investments are doing really well, then you should be having profits to be taxed...  If your investments are doing mostly well, then you maybe profitable but on your tax return showing a loss because of depreciation, being pretty much the only non-cash deduction.

    The "tax benefit" that they "sell" you on for investing in real estate is the ability to take deductions, e.g. all the related expenses.  You can't take deductions for the expenses of your primary home.  So, the deductions are there so you don't have to pay tax on the rental income.  Its not really there to offset your salary.

    I don't understand #1.  What is there to approach on depreciation?

    Sorry to be a sour puss.  Happy to chat.  Good luck.

  • Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2023 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    @Sean O'Keefe Thank you for your quick and informative response.  You've confirmed what I'd interpreted in my research.  

    I'm an employee and hold no ownership in the property management company I work for.  I don't expect the owners to consider selling a portion of the company to an employee.  With that in mind, two possible routes I could see to become a REP.  The first would be to step down to 20hrs/wk at my current job and work more hours in my own real estate business.  The other option I see would be to see if my current employer would be willing to contract out the work I'm currently doing to a company I form and build that into a business. This assumes that managing rehab projects for clients would qualify.  

    @David M. Thank you for your input.  Fortunately depreciation isn't a driving factor in our decision to build a real estate portfolio.  Appreciation, amortization, and cashflow are our drivers.  The ultimate goal is this endeavor to fund some of our retirement and hopefully be a foundation for some generational wealth.  

    My question about depreciation stems from my understanding that anyone under $100k MAGI could offset up to $25k in depreciation annually.  As you mentioned, there's lots of talk about the benefits of depreciation.  That led me to assume investors with a MAGI over $150k might have another approach to utilizing depreciation.  My research had led me to REPS but I wasn't sure if there was something else I was missing.

    Long story short, my day job has taught me a lot about the rehab side of investing and I've learned a good bit about the financing side working with my clients.  The tax side of investing is a dark territory for me.

    Thanks again for all your help!

  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Tax advantages is incredibly overstated here. Unless you're literally a real estate professional or buy a STR(and just for that year) is it beneficial tax wise, if you make good income you won't really benefit.

    I'm no CPA, but this is what I have learned from mine. 

  • Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Chris Herring

    good to know.

    To clarify, the <$100k magi upt o $25k thing is for any losses, not just depreciation.  for example, if you have an extended vacancy, the unit will compute to a loss.

    Since PAL is "banked up," unless you go positive and use it up, you get to take some advantage of it when you sell the property.

  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    2y

    V.G is correct. You need to "change your facts to change your tax" as the great tom wheelright put it. If your not RE pro or STR loophole qualified, best to stay focused on the more traditional tax reduction strategies like IRA, HSA and 401k

  • Basit SiddiqiBusiness Member
    Accountant · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 8k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    There are still benefits of having rental properties if your income is above $150,000.

    If you are a joint filing and living in Indiana, it is a good chance that your tax rate is atleast 29%(24% Federal and around 5% for indiana).

    If you get $3,600 of cash flow($100 per door per month x 3 properties), that is approximately $1,200 of taxes that you don't have to pay because it will likely be shielded by depreciation.

    More properties, more years, and you will have earned a lot of rental income tax free.

    It is a whole different conversation if you want to offset rental losses against other forms of income such as W-2.

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