Provider "forgot" to charge her for 4 yrs. Can she be sent to collection?

Provider "forgot" to charge her for 4 yrs. Can she be sent to collection?

Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes

Hi guys,

This is an unusual situation. My partner built a website in 2009 and paid for a plugin that displays homes for sale in maps etc.. you know the typical exchange service that pulls homes from the MLS.

Well, she paid $1000 back in 2009 that was supposed to cover 1 yr of service from the plugin, but then the company never sent her another bill, so she wait and wait and wait and come 2014 they never again billed her for the service.

Her website is still up and the plugin still works, so they pretty much let her use it all this time and forgot to bill her. She is retiring her license and is going to pull the website, so now she is wondering what to do about the plugin, should she leave it as is and it could be another 5 yrs.

If they realize they haven't charged for the service could they come now and send her to collection for all the 4 years she didn't pay and had the plugin on her website?

The contract was for 1yr and it was prepaid up front, but it states that after the year it goes month to month.

My take on this is that if she didn't pay a dime after the year passed and converted to the month to month, then that means that she didn't renew the contract and is off the hook. But not sure if they can say that she didn't give them notice of cancellation and since she continued to use the plugin, then she was still on a month to month and she owes them regardless of whether she paid or not. If that was the case though and she never said a word it would mean they could charge her for the next 10 yrs if they never realize this is going on. So I doubt the latter can be upheld against her.

But wanted to get more opinions to better advise her.

Here is the language from her contract:

"services will continue and be charged monthly to their credit card until canceled. After the first year of service, monthly renewal contracts are month to month and can be canceled at any time"

Clients that prepaid their services for the year will continue after the first 12 months at the monthly rate stated on the website. Monthly clients will continue as normal being charged the monthly rate stated on the website. All charges will be monthly and be charged to the credit card we have on file after the first year unless otherwise specified

"You shall pay the fees and other charges for the Services as stated your invoice or in this Agreement. All fees are due immediately and, except as expressly provided herein, are non-refundable. We reserve the right to
change its fees at any time. You shall make all payments in U.S. currency. Your credit card will be billed in advance for any and all fees. In the event that the Account is over 90 days past due the total value of the contract will be due immediately and will be turned over a collection agency if not paid immediately. We reserve the right to suspend or terminate your account if credit card charges are denied. Such suspension or termination shall not relieve you of the obligation to pay the fees due. You agree to pay us its reasonable expenses, including attorneys' and collection agency fees, incurred in enforcing its rights under this Agreement."

What do you think? Will they be able to send her to collection if they notice their mistake ?

If she is sent to collection, can she win if she goes to court base on the language of the contract and what happened?

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Investor · Near San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 96 votes
12y

I'd just shut down the site and move on with life.

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  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    It looks like your partner is trying to pull a fast one and get something for free. Your partner needs to pay as agreed and pay all back fees. Is your partner credit card still valid? Tell your partner to be honest it will go a long way.

    Joe Gore

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    Joe, I'll let her know. Any more judgment you want to pass on today? :)

    Seriously, this is a complicated issue and I need to be able to help her. She can't afford to pay this company and if they would have charged her then, she would have either cancelled or continue paying until she could no longer afford it.

    So. If you can't provide a helpful answer, please keep your judgment to yourself unless you want to be very immature and ruin this thread.

    Thank you !

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  • Investor · Near San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 96 votes
    12y

    Are you sure that they're still in business? Maybe they gave up but the plug-in still works?

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jon A.:
    Are you sure that they're still in business? Maybe they gave up but the plug-in still works?

    Hi Jon, yes they are still in business. It is very strange that they never billed her again. Not sure how that went on for almost 4 yrs. But now if you add it up it is like 4 grand.. so she is worried that she let it went by this long.

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  • Investor · Near San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 96 votes
    12y

    I'd just shut down the site and move on with life.

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  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
    12y

    @NA N. that the right thing to do is to pay up.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jon A.:
    I'd just shut down the site and move on with life.

    That's what I thought. Thanks

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  • Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
    12y

    Sounds like a question best answered by an attorney.

    Kudos,

    Mary

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  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    @Dash F.,

    I will pass judgment again. If you really wanted to help you will tell her to pay her debt or let it go to collections. If she shut down the site she still owe the money.

    Joe Gore

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    @Dash F.,

    I will pass judgment again. If you really wanted to help you will tell her to pay her debt or let it go to collections. If she shut down the site she still owe the money.

    Joe Gore

    You feel better now Joe? Good, now let us move on, I'm sure there are other threads you can pass judgement on too. Hope your day gets better!

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  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    12y

    Sorry, but your take is wrong. Based on the statement: "after the year it goes month to month", she would have had to explicitly cancel to terminate the service. My rental property leases say exactly the same thing and I certainly expect tenants to keep paying if they don't give notice.

    I think you're asking, though, if they can come after her for the unpaid charges. Yes, they can. I would expect they would send a bill before sending it to collections. If she doesn't pay it then they might send it to collections. That would hit her credit record. No court involved.

    She should check her old credit card statements. She may have had a card that was getting charged. Or, for that matter, may still be getting charged.

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  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Shut down the website and see what happens. The issue could come back to bite her anytime, whether she shuts down the website now or later. She owes for services rendered. The agreement to move to month to month is normal and she's accepted the service all this time.....and knew about it. She has a weak case if she kept the website active. It doesn't sound like she can prove that she didn't use the service or was no longer licensed or was out the country.

    If and when she gets a bill, the provider may be willing to negotiate it down. But doing nothing doesn't make the service for the last four years go away. There may well be a state law regarding billing requirements and noticing yearly, etc by the vendor. But she doesn't need to fight anything unless she gets a bill.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jon Holdman:

    Sorry, but your take is wrong. Based on the statement: "after the year it goes month to month", she would have had to explicitly cancel to terminate the service. My rental property leases say exactly the same thing and I certainly expect tenants to keep paying if they don't give notice.

    I think you're asking, though, if they can come after her for the unpaid charges. Yes, they can. I would expect they would send a bill before sending it to collections. If she doesn't pay it then they might send it to collections. That would hit her credit record. No court involved.

    She should check her old credit card statements. She may have had a card that was getting charged. Or, for that matter, may still be getting charged.

    Hi Jon, good points.

    Here is new info from her.

    She told me she found the invoice for the 1yr payment and that it is written there that they agreed to start counting her "paid year" when her website was all finished and she went live.

    She never got around developing the site further and sort of left it half way through, so she never bothered and thought she wasted 1k on a plugin and a failed website.

    Apparently they are still waiting for her to tell them that the website is officially live to start counting her 1st year. That is the only thing I can think of as the reason why they haven't billed her, but it seems that after 4 yrs they should have touched base with her, but she says they never even once asked her if the site was live or nothing.

    They might bill her at some point, but I am wondering, what if another 5 yrs go by, under that logic you mention they would bill her for 9 yrs?

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  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    I think it is best not to look for excuses and take care of the problem. Because she did not finish her website is not their problem.

    Joe Gore

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  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I had a similar thing happen years ago with my cable provider. I stopped getting bills. At first I didn't notice because when I receive a bill in the mail, I usually pay it online the next morning. In this case, I realized that I hadn't received a cable bill in a couple months. After a while, it became a big joke with friends asking if my cable bill had come yet. I figured that if they ever caught on, they would send me a huge bill and I would pay it. Finally after a whole year, I received a letter that there had been a "billing error". They said that I wouldn't have to pay any arrears, but would need to start paying again from that point forward. It was all fine with me.

    Not sure what will happen in your case, but it sounds like you fell through the cracks like I did.

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  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @NA N. there are several things to consider here. First she has a potential for a bill every month so she needs to close her website immediately. By doing that she will stop any ongoing liability.

    As to her current liability for past use I cannot give you any help. Every state has statutes of limitations on how long a liability may be in effect before you lose the right to enforce it. Real estate contracts are usually the longest, in Wyoming it is 10 years from last payment. For written contracts it is 4 years here I think. You would need a local attorney to help. There is no negative to closing her site now. Do it and wait and see.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Rob K.:
    I had a similar thing happen years ago with my cable provider. I stopped getting bills. At first I didn't notice because when I receive a bill in the mail, I usually pay it online the next morning. In this case, I realized that I hadn't received a cable bill in a couple months. After a while, it became a big joke with friends asking if my cable bill had come yet. I figured that if they ever caught on, they would send me a huge bill and I would pay it. Finally after a whole year, I received a letter that there had been a "billing error". They said that I wouldn't have to pay any arrears, but would need to start paying again from that point forward. It was all fine with me.
    Not sure what will happen in your case, but it sounds like you fell through the cracks like I did.

    That is a cool story Rob! You are lucky, cable companies enjoy suing for a couple hundred even. Were you a long time client? Watch out though, Joe Gore will call you dishonest and accuse you of "pulling a fast one".

    @Account Closed WOW! I think it is best if you find someone to talk to, you know, in person not on a forum so they can help you vent and let go of all that bitterness you have shown in just 3 posts. No one likes a grumpy man who passes judgement without having a clue and can't let go when told to stop being annoying. You are childish.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jerry W.:
    @NA N. there are several things to consider here. First she has a potential for a bill every month so she needs to close her website immediately. By doing that she will stop any ongoing liability.

    As to her current liability for past use I cannot give you any help. Every state has statutes of limitations on how long a liability may be in effect before you lose the right to enforce it. Real estate contracts are usually the longest, in Wyoming it is 10 years from last payment. For written contracts it is 4 years here I think. You would need a local attorney to help. There is no negative to closing her site now. Do it and wait and see.

    That's what she is doing, pulling the site and will just wait and see. I appreciate your comment.

    Thanks a lot.

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  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    Carry on you are the real winner.

    Joe Gore

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  • Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Carry on you are the real winner.

    Joe Gore

    I concur, the mysterious "partner" and Dash F are real winners. I really like it when people show me who they are for free.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Donald Hendricks:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Carry on you are the real winner.
    Joe Gore

    I concur, the mysterious "partner" and Dash F are real winners. I really like it when people show me who they are for free.

    Oh don't tell me that you are the guy that can see through and is always spot on and can read people?

    @Jon Holdman I didn't know bigger pockets had these gems of personalities who ganged to attack a member who is asking for help. This is not what this website is about and certainly not what I have experienced in the past.

    What can we do to have these nice gentlemen call it a day?

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  • Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @NA N.:
    Originally posted by @Donald Hendricks:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Carry on you are the real winner.
    Joe Gore

    I concur, the mysterious "partner" and Dash F are real winners. I really like it when people show me who they are for free.

    Oh don't tell me that you are the guy that can see through and is always spot on and can read people?

    @Jon Holdman I didn't know bigger pockets had these gems of personalities who ganged to attack a member who is asking for help. This is not what this website is about and certainly not what I have experienced in the past.

    What can we do to have these nice gentlemen call it a day?

    You got answers. You just didn't like them.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Donald Hendricks:
    Originally posted by @NA N.:
    Originally posted by @Donald Hendricks:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Carry on you are the real winner.
    Joe Gore

    I concur, the mysterious "partner" and Dash F are real winners. I really like it when people show me who they are for free.

    Oh don't tell me that you are the guy that can see through and is always spot on and can read people?

    @Jon Holdman I didn't know bigger pockets had these gems of personalities who ganged to attack a member who is asking for help. This is not what this website is about and certainly not what I have experienced in the past.

    What can we do to have these nice gentlemen call it a day?

    You got answers. You just didn't like them.

    Of course I did get answers. From other knowledgeable members who have the decency to stay on target and not pass judgement on something they don't know the details about, because that is what decent people do. You wouldn't know anything about that though.

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  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @NA N. shake it off if you can. The purpose of posting is to help others. Sometimes folks do not understand what it is like to be broke and scared. I deal with folks who have done wrong on a regular basis, your friend did make a mistake, but hopefully she learned from it so she will not repeat it again. Everyone has made mistakes. The size of the mistake usually controls how bad the results are, but sometimes we just get lucky and get a free lesson.

    I have looked at their posts and most are cynical in nature. If it bothers you a lot there is a report abuse button at the bottom of each person's picture. Try not to use it unless you feel it is truly justified.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 40 posts · 3 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jerry W.:
    @NA N. shake it off if you can. The purpose of posting is to help others. Sometimes folks do not understand what it is like to be broke and scared. I deal with folks who have done wrong on a regular basis, your friend did make a mistake, but hopefully she learned from it so she will not repeat it again. Everyone has made mistakes. The size of the mistake usually controls how bad the results are, but sometimes we just get lucky and get a free lesson.

    I have looked at their posts and most are cynical in nature. If it bothers you a lot there is a report abuse button at the bottom of each person's picture. Try not to use it unless you feel it is truly justified.

    Thank you Jerry, you are spot on. It is just sad that some people can't keep it to themselves and feel the need to show they are somehow "morally correct" on a forum of all places. They are so perfect and so entitled to judge others even when they have no clue about any of the facts.

    I have done the reporting you suggest, since now there is a little gang who can see through a forum post and want to make it right.

    Hope they can be grown ups and call it a day!

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