I don't think I bought the lot next door...

I don't think I bought the lot next door...

Gene HackerPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes

I just found out today about a crazy title situation with the county and I am exactly sure how to proceed. Its a long one and somewhat complicated but I will try to make is as simple as possible:

I purchased a house from the bank. The previous owner owned the house (I will call it parcel H for house) and a lot next door (I will call it parcel V for vacant). The house solely rests on parcel H. The loan was only secured by parcel H (so I am told...I need to check this out).

The bank foreclosed and took back parcel H. The bank gave the borrower cash for keys to move out. The borrower moved everything (mostly worthless junk) next door to parcel V.

Ok. so I bought the parcel H (with the house) from the bank. It was clear from the listing through closing that I was only purchasing the lot with the house. The only APN was parcel H. Both the trustees deed and the deed from the bank to myself only has parcel H included.

Six months later I get a notice from the county saying that I have numerous code violations and lists the parcel number as parcel V. I contacted the inspector and explained that I don't own the parcel, that I only bought the parcel next door. The county inspector told me that I am the owner of record of parcel V and I will be personally liable unless I provide proof to the contrary.

So I called the county recorders office to clarify. The county recorders office said that I am in fact the owner of record on both parcels. They said that the lot as defined by the legal description includes both parcels and it doesn't matter if the deed only included one APN. This just doesn't seem right to me.

So here is my dilemma...I don't want to be personally responsible for the violations on parcel V. If the foreclosure was in fact on both properties and I am the legal owner of both I think it is likely that the previous owner/borrower will likely take legal action against me. What a mess. The lot would add value to my property but not enough for any legal hassles.

My next step is to make the journey to the recorders office and see if the original trust deed included both APNs or just one. I also have several calls into the title company which has proven to be elusive in the past.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

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  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 380 votes
    15y

    I would start making a stink with escrow and title. This is the reason title insurance exists. If you were transferred a property without your knowledge and without consideration, you've certainly got grounds to unwind the transaction, make a title insurance claim and start suing the pants off quite a few people.

    See what the title/escrow officers say, and then make your next move.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · la mirada, CA · Member since 2011 · 66 posts · 12 votes
    15y

    Nothing bad will come out, i have seen several times this happen, title will clean it showing proof, years ago a guy bought from HUD in LA a corner lot one fence everyone inbolved thought it was fine, he went to pull permits and found out he only whas owner of have the lot and on top he had to cut 5 feet from that side to comply with set backs he tried sueing but got nowhere with HUD.
    Strange that loan people did not notice (was it a HML). The parcel # can be one and include multiple lots, no matter what title says go to planning & zonning and get their legal plot map and ask them for what they see, the city will dictate not title and i have seen some that are diviseble and some city will not allow. While there ask if it is your, and the procees to obtain a particion, ask on requierd set backs. So soon enough either you can show it is not yours or you got a free lot. Please post back to know what happend.

  • Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
    15y

    How can a vacant lot have code violations? :roll:

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    15y

    Jake,
    If the original trust deed and foreclosing documents included both APNs, then I will likely consider myself the owner and evict the people (family of the borrower) and all of their stuff. The people actually stay in an RV on the property at times.

    The title company did not return my calls today. I am going to the county recorders office tomorrow to pull the every recorded document with both lots so I have an idea of what has actually occurred.

    Edgar,

    I don't think the lot was ever split as much as the builder purchased two parcel of the original subdivision. The parcel map is pretty strait forward for the entire neighborhood. The subject parcels are in the middle of a block of 30+ lots all of uniform size, with each having 50ft of frontage. Some houses sit on one parcel while others are on two.

    Thanks for the responses guys. I will report back what I find out down at the recorders office.

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Ralph S.:
    How can a vacant lot have code violations? :roll:

    There were several listed...an unpermitted/occupied RV, trash, vermin and pest.

  • Real Estate Investor · Mandeville, LA · Member since 2011 · 19 posts · 1 vote
    15y

    I would just serve the tenants of the lot with a notice to vacate premises on x date and any remaining items will be trashed or sold. If it really is suppose to be their property that will get them to sort it out.

    You are on the hook for the taxes might as well get something for it...like the lot next door and maybe an RV

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    15y

    If it looks like the foreclosure included both lots I think I will work on evicting the folks occupying the lot.

    California has pretty strict eviction laws and its common for abusive landlords to be hit with punitive punishments so I need to be careful about how I proceed.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Rochester, NY · Member since 2011 · 138 posts · 11 votes
    15y

    Please keep us updated...in states like ours, there isn't always a slam dunk answer. I am very interested to see how this plays out for you. Good luck!!

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · la mirada, CA · Member since 2011 · 66 posts · 12 votes
    15y

    What happend.
    Ed

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    15y

    Update...I went to the county hall of records today and pulled all the relevant documents. The recorder staff confirmed that APNs don't matter, only the legal description. I worked one-on-one with the supervisor for a half hour or so as she went through the chain of title back to the owner before the barrow who lost the property to foreclosure. She said that it looks like there is perfect chain of title making me the owner of both parcels. She said that nothing would suggest otherwise. She didn't think the single APN on the documents mattered at all.

    After my visit to the hall of records, I went over my title insurance policy and it also refers to the legal description and there are no exceptions for the vacant lot so I think I will be covered by the insurance if the previous owner tries to sue me.

    So I here are the steps I am going to take...

    1 - I am going to contact the title company and notify them of the issue and ask for clarity.

    2 - Contact the code enforcement inspector and let him know that I have found that I am the owner of record and I will be diligently working on getting the violations corrected. He is sounds very reasonable in regards to this issue, and I have to work with him in the past with violations on homes that I have purchased and he was flexible and fair as long as he thought I was doing the right thing. I am going to move as fast as possible on this and keep him updated so hopefully he continues to work with me.

    3 - serve the folks on the vacant lot with a notice to cure or quit. If the violations are not fixed then I will file an unlawful detainer action. I will document with pics and video all of the junk and violations in the event that they do being legal action against me.

    I think I might be in a pretty good position. The lot has value. I feel that I would have a very strong case if they do bring legal action against me and I should be covered by the title insurance in the case of a lawsuit. Its a headache but in the long run this deal might be a lot better than I originally thought...time will tell.

  • Investor · Pawleys Island, SC · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 837 votes
    15y

    Why not also ask your "squatters" for rent if they want to continue living on your property?

  • Gene HackerPro Member
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    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    15y

    They are living in travel trailers which is not legal. The county has sent me notice to clear up the violations. The travel trailers are one of the major violations.

  • Investor · Reston, VA · Member since 2011 · 683 posts · 191 votes
    15y

    If I were you, I'd be sitting in front of my lawyer's desk tomorrow. Verify that you own the lot and start eviction proceedings.

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    15y

    I am relying on the title company to verify if I own the lot or not. I already paid them for title insurance so I am not really seeing the benefit of paying a lawyer $100/hr for the same outcome. If the title company says I own it...then I will have their legal backing. If not then I will make them clean up the misunderstanding with the county.

    As far as evictions goes...if I get verification from the title company that I have title, then I have no problem completing the unlawful detainer action myself. I have had to do several over the past decade and I don't really find them to be that difficult.

  • Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
    15y

    Double check with that attorney. Seems you're associating them living in camp trailers as tenancy on your property. May not be the case, it may just be good old fashioned trespassing. Camp trailers are not real estate, and if there are not provisions for living (electrical & sewer hookups, etc.) then perhaps the elements for tenancy cannot be established. I can't imagine any claim of tenancy can be established when occupation is illegal in the first place.

  • Investor · Reston, VA · Member since 2011 · 683 posts · 191 votes
    15y

    My point was that you shouldn't have to run the title or spend hours at land records trying to figure this out. My impression was that you were getting the run-around from the title company. I certainly wouldn't try to straighten out their problem. Afterall, you paid them to search the title and you purchased title insurance. I don't know that I would rely on what they tell you at this point.

    As to the unlawful detainer, I didn't mean to suggest that an attorney is required to handle this if you are experienced.

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    15y

    Ralph S. that is an interesting idea, and I have contemplated something similar. The issue is that they have had the trailers/stuff on the property for almost a year. I have talked to a sheriffs deputy about it and they told me that it would be civil and I would need a writ of execution for them to do anything. When I bought the house the power and water were in their names (not the bank). So I think I need to go the longer route. This is one the biggest disadvantages of living in California.

    Cheryl, Sorry for missinterpretating what you wrote. I appreciate your suggestions.

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    14y

    UPDATE:
    The title company clearly stated in a letter that I in fact own the lot and they paid the overdue property taxes that were not paid during escrow.

    I posted on the property that I would be putting DMV liens on the trailers, and hauling off everything in 72 hours. The owners daughter called crying that her dad has passed and that she just wanted a few days to get some stuff off the lot.

    Over the past several weeks, she has moved off all of the trailers and most of her stuff. She is saving what looks to be total trash, furniture that has sat out in the rain for more than a year, scrap metal...crazy. But everything she takes is less loads to the dump for me. 90% is gone and the rest should be gone this week. I think a big part of the solution is that I have helped her by letting her use my large enclosed trailer. I drop it at the site in the morning, and then move it to her new place in the evening. It usually takes her a day to unload, then we repeat. Her new place is only a few blocks away so its WAY better than the 25 minutes each way to the dump.

    Overall its all going much easier than I could have imagined...hopefully there are no new surprises down the road.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Good job Gene as I'm sure you've learned alot from this. Two things I want to mention that I've learned from my experiences in this business.

    1) The title company has the final say in matters like this (concerning ownership). Yes you can contact your attorney and make it his problem. But in the end, your attorney will have to end up clarifying everything with the title co. So you did the right thing in going right to the source, thus having this thing expedited so that the city stays off your back.

    2) As the county employee stated, the legal description does indeed take precedence over APN's, Block & Lots numbers, stated/typed addresses and virtually anything else on the deed describing the parcel conveyed. So if the legal description includes the vacant lot AND is in line with the chain of title, you own it. I'm sure you will be reviewing the legal descriptions on deeds and title policies for now on :)

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    14y

    Very true Ibrahim.

    This experience reinforced my notion to treat everyone with respect and honesty. I was completely honest and transparent with the inspector and he worked with me. I was always totally respectful and empathetic to the previous owners daughter.

    This has always been my philosophy. Its not just the right thing to do but its also the best business choice.

  • Commercial Real Estate Lender / Syndicator · Dallas, TX · Member since 2011 · 888 posts · 309 votes
    14y

    I just read another thread on this site where someone recommended not paying one's obligations in order to force a lender to accept a discount. Thanks for bringing a little balance to the world, Gene. I applaud how you handled the people side. Demonstrates great character.

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    14y

    Hopefully this is my final update (I really hope the drama is behind me).

    The previous owners daughter has moved off the last of her stuff. She was very thankful that I worked with her.

    I am taking a tractor with a loader and my dump trailer to load and haul the rest of the trash next week.

    What a relief. I never thought it all go so smooth.

  • Gene HackerPro Member
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    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    13y

    A year later there have been no additional issues with this lot. The tenant I had living in the house moved and a I rented to a new tenant and without the "crazy lot next door issue" I was able to raise the rent by $100 a month.

    I am paying property taxes on the lot so if the previous owner dose attempt to sue me I should be in good standing. And of course I have title insurance to fall back on.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Is this a buildable lot with a seperate lot number?

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    13y

    I am not exactly sure. They each have separate apn numbers but they share the same legal description.

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