Philadelphia Rental License -- Still Rent Without?

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Philadelphia Rental License -- Still Rent Without?

Brandon Cao
Real Estate Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2012 · 59 posts · 17 votes

Hello Everyone,

I have a property in Northeast Philadelphia, I bought it around Mid-September last month. As soon as the deal closed, I submitted in my application for the Philadelphia Business Privilege License (which was received online pretty much immediately) and then applied for the Rental License (AKA Housing Inspection license) for my rental property (apparently takes 4-6 weeks). Fast-forward one month to today, I still have heard no word from Philadelphia L&I (even after calling/e-mailing) and I'm ready to start renting it out, but one problem:

"The Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code (Section PM-102.6.4) requires an owner offering residential property for rent to provide the following to the tenant at the inception of each tenancy:

A Certificate of Rental Suitability issued by the Department of Licenses and Inspections no more than sixty (60) days prior to the inception of the tenancy.
A copy of the “City of Philadelphia Partners for Good Housing” brochure issued by the Department of Licenses and Inspections....."

I have heard before technically, you need a Rental License to rent. Although practically, I have heard that you don't need it until you evict a tenant. The only problem is to get a Certificate of Rental Suitability, you need a Rental License for that property to get it. My question is, is there a way to get around this or are you at the mercy of the L&I department and waiting 4-6 weeks for license and then applying for the certificate?

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Steve Babiak
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Cheryl Daniels:

Hi, Brandon Cao

... Question: Will I be fined for not obtaining a rental license before collecting rent from the tenants?

I doubt you will. But if you do have to evict, you could have trouble without the Housing Inspection License. There was also a case in Phila where a judge denied the landlord a judgment for the time period during which the license was not in place. I believe that is the worst fate you would face, but I could be wrong ...

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  • Nancy L.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 64 votes
    10y

    @Clifford YunDoes your space have a separate entrance from the rest of the house? If you're renting rooms in your house don't know if you need a rental license or what. The other question is if you're renting rooms individually or all to the same person. You may be operating a boarding or rooming house from the city's perspective. But lots of ppl in Philly rent rooms in their house without this official designation, so not too sure how it works.

    As for leases, try googling "PA Standard Residential Lease". That what many of us use. Good luck!

    0Reply
  • Parker Dresser
    Investor · Bangor, ME · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    Check your zoning for maximum number of people allowed in one unit.

    0Reply
  • Helga R.
    Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Glad I found this thread.  We recently moved out of a one BD apartment in Philadelphia located two flights of stairs above a bakery.  The rent was 1,000 a month.  Aside from the landlord being negligent about maintenance and repairs, the unit was not compliant with city codes.  It had no fire escape.  There was moisture buildup in one wall so severe that the wall was soft.  There was a bad mouse infestation.  The spiral metal staircase leading up to the front door was so steep that after a month our knees were in pain.  They did not seem safe of code compliant.  The faucet in the bathroom sink had only a trickle of water so we had to brush our teeth in the kitchen sink.  In the summer, the apartment became unbearably hot even after we installed three AC's.  When we moved out, the landlord insisted on keeping the entire security deposit of $1,000.  When I looked up his rental properties, I noticed that this apartment did not have a rental license and neither did the one being rented below it.  Also, our gas and electric bills did not acknowledge our address; rather, the bills both showed our address as two numbers off.  When I tried to forward our mail online, the USPS site did not recognize our address as valid.  I reported this apartment to L and I.  I also contacted an attorney about suing this person for some of the rent money, but he said no judge would allow that.  I would like an opinion on this situation.  This landlord owns a lot of rental properties in Philadelphia so I can't fathom why he did not obtain a rental license for these apartments.   This property was and is listed by a leasing company so its even more surprising that its not properly licensed or code compliant.  When we told the leasing agent about the problems we were having with the landlord, she said that the lease actually rolled over to another year and we might end up owing him money!  Doesn't a lack of rental license render any lease void?  Thanks.

    0Reply
  • Navid Aberg
    Phila, PA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Helga R.:

    Doesn't a lack of rental license render any lease void?  Thanks.

     I believe the short answer is yes. There're documented cases where the court sided with the tenants and did not require backpayment if rent wasn't paid. If you have been paying rent, though, nothing you can do except for stop paying rent or get out the lease for free!

    0Reply
  • Helga R.
    Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    Originally posted by @Navid Aberg:
    Originally posted by @Helga R.:

    Doesn't a lack of rental license render any lease void?  Thanks.

     I believe the short answer is yes. There're documented cases where the court sided with the tenants and did not require backpayment if rent wasn't paid. If you have been paying rent, though, nothing you can do except for stop paying rent or get out the lease for free!

    Thank you Navid, and what a lesson for that landlord. After I reported the apartment to L and I, the landlord was forced to obtain a license for not only our apartment but the one downstairs.  About a week after L and I found the landlord in violation, the other tenants moved out too!  So either they were required to move or they saw it as an opportunity to get out of their lease.  He also had to pull the listing for our unit until he got the license for it. 

    0Reply
  • Jessica DiPonzianoPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2023 · 46 posts · 25 votes
    2y

    I am so confused, I have a single unit I'd like to rent long term, used to be my primary residence. But every page I go to I feel like I need 8 different forms. Is there a service or something to walk me through all this? I'm also out of state so it looks like there is other stuff I need to do? Finding this quite frustrating, trying to do the right thing and its difficult

    0Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jessica DiPonziano:

    I am so confused, I have a single unit I'd like to rent long term, used to be my primary residence. But every page I go to I feel like I need 8 different forms. Is there a service or something to walk me through all this? I'm also out of state so it looks like there is other stuff I need to do? Finding this quite frustrating, trying to do the right thing and its difficult

    At the top of the Philadelphia forum you should see some sticky topics that tell what to do. A few of us tend to correct any misstatements that people post, so those should be good advice to follow. 

    And ask questions under those topics, since people who can give a good answer are likely still tracking those topics.
    0Reply
  • Eric Greenberg
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 618 posts · 430 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jessica DiPonziano:

    I am so confused, I have a single unit I'd like to rent long term, used to be my primary residence. But every page I go to I feel like I need 8 different forms. Is there a service or something to walk me through all this? I'm also out of state so it looks like there is other stuff I need to do? Finding this quite frustrating, trying to do the right thing and its difficult

    Where are you specifically stuck? Have you submitted your lead cert already ? 
    0Reply
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