Using your self directed IRA to buy real estate is stupid!

Using your self directed IRA to buy real estate is stupid!

Matthew DrouinPro Member
Developer · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 406 posts · 339 votes

*** Disclaimer: I am not an accountant, lawyer, or financial advisor! You should consult with a qualified professional before acting on any of the opinions shared in this post!!! ***

Self directed IRAs have become very hot among investors with the rise in popularity in alternative investments such as real estate, gold, and cryptocurrency. They allow retirement account owners to invest money in assets that your traditional IRA or 401k would not. Typically they have been restricted to Wall Street type products like stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. Typically around this time of year, investors are looking at maximize their retirement account contributions before the April 15th tax filing deadline.

Something really stupid I have seen people doing is buying real estate using their Self Directed IRA. It's stupid for a multitude of reasons, here's why:

1.) Real estate is illiquid. Retirement accounts are illiquid (at least until you reach an age to start taking distributions.) Why would you want to double down on the biggest risk involved with real estate, liquidity risk? Besides, I am not even a fan of tax advantaged accounts like IRAs and 401ks because you cannot do what you want with your OWN money. I value being nimble and having options. This scenario is very restrictive.

2.) Lack of leveragability. One of the best parts of the real estate asset class is that it is a hard asset. Banks love hard assets as collateral and therefore allow you to leverage them. Which means you can buy and control a $100k for $20k essentially or whatever your bank will allow you to do. This allows you to scale multiples on your net worth over time. For example. Let's say you buy a property for $100,000, all cash, no leverage. Let's say that property appreciates 3%, pretty average for Rochester, NY in good locations. Let's say you sell that property for $103,000. That $3000 return on investment yielded you 3% return on your money. Now, lets say you buy that same building and put bank financing on it. So you put $20,000 down and have your bank put a $80,000 mortgage on it. The property appreciates 3% or by $3,000. $3,000/$20,000 = 15% return on investment. Plus you can buy 5 properties using that same type of leverage; much better for building your long term wealth! With Self Directed IRAs (SIDRA), you cannot use bank financing in this way. Why not? Because most bank financing requires personal guarantees, something strictly prohibited by the IRS in Internal Revenue Code Section 4975, therefore precluding you from using leverage. There might be come convoluted ways in which to get around this but at the end of the day usually doesn't make sense.

3.) Lack of tax benefits. Yes, SIDRAs and other tax advantaged retirement vehicles have tax advantages in their own right but it ends up stripping out one of the greatest part of owning investment real estate, depreciation! Depreciation is an expense that you take "on paper" each year you own a piece of investment property. When you own desirable real estate assets in great locations, you pay for it. You usually have a higher cost basis when you buy great property. You can take a certain portion of that basis as an expense each year. Often times that expense synthetically wipes out positive cash flow while you own the property. Assuming a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow (it's a fact, look up "Time Value Of Money"), the less you pay in tax today, reinvest those tax savings, it's quite simply explosive to building your net worth over time.

So now that I've thoroughly trashed buying real estate with your SIDRA, you should know some tactics on how to use your SIDRA to grow your real estate business. One tactic that is my favorite is making loans out of my SIDRA. Loans that are backed by real estate. You can make loans out of your SIDRA with interest rates and terms more attractive than typical private or hard money. Why would you do this?

Relationship building.

If you have a reciprocal relationship with another investor with a SIDRA, you can loan them money to help them grow their real estate business and they can lend you money to help you grow yours, without the crushingly brutal rates of some hard money lenders.

Another way to invest is by investing in an LLC or special purpose vehicle as a limited partner (silent partner) and partnering with the managing person of that LLC in exchange for an equity stake. Again, it would still be best to do this not using your retirement accounts for reasons stated above, but if it's the only way for you, it's the only way! The only caveat is to make sure that whatever bank financing that investor is using will allow your IRA to own membership interest in that deal without having to sign a personal guarantee. Usually you can avoid personal guarantees by having your IRAs membership interest at 19% or less in that LLC. What are your thoughts on this? Do you invest in real estate with your SIDRA?

2Reply
181 views

Most Popular Reply

John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
5y

Call me stupid then.

I own 4 properties in my IRA that I bought with IRA cash. I bought them way cheap and my IRA had a contractor renovate them as needed. The cash on cash return is through the roof. I never plan on selling them.

They generate tax free income because these are in a ROTH, the taxes I would have paid in this income vs the tax write offs are severely in my favor.

I can pull monthly tax free money out of this account, never run out of money as I can pull thousands of dollars in just incoming rent out. My kids will inherit these one day.

I'm laughing stupidly every month as my massive tax free money grows every month.

See this reply in the discussion

39 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y

    Call me stupid then.

    I own 4 properties in my IRA that I bought with IRA cash. I bought them way cheap and my IRA had a contractor renovate them as needed. The cash on cash return is through the roof. I never plan on selling them.

    They generate tax free income because these are in a ROTH, the taxes I would have paid in this income vs the tax write offs are severely in my favor.

    I can pull monthly tax free money out of this account, never run out of money as I can pull thousands of dollars in just incoming rent out. My kids will inherit these one day.

    I'm laughing stupidly every month as my massive tax free money grows every month.

  • Accountant · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    I tend to agree that often it doesn't make sense to hold an already tax-advantaged asset class within a retirement account, however I wouldn't call it stupid.

    What makes sense is going to depend on the person's facts, circumstances, and goals.

    @John Underwood

    That's great, and you've obviously done well for yourself, but it may not align with everyone's goals.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Eamonn McElroy:

    I tend to agree that often it doesn't make sense to hold an already tax-advantaged asset class within a retirement account, however I wouldn't call it stupid.

    What makes sense is going to depend on the person's facts, circumstances, and goals.

    @John Underwood

    That's great, and you've obviously done well for yourself, but it may not align with everyone's goals.

     That's true.

    Then I think you may agree that your advice may not align with everyone's goals either.

  • Accountant · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    I tend to not give out "advice" to non-clients, rather I state facts and opinions, so I'm not sure what "advice" you're talking about here.

    My advice to my clients absolutely takes into consideration their goals...that's the value I provide.

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y

    @Matthew Drouin

    I think you've got number of fallacies in your arguments, so let me address them one by one. 

    Lack of leveragability - this is incorrect statement. While it is true that you can't provide a personal guarantee for a loan to an IRA, you can still leverage it using non-recourse financing. Getting such loan is actually easier in many cases than conventional financing, I've done it personally, hundreds of my clients did it, and thousands of other BP investors did it. 

    Your choices are limited since there is only a handful list of lenders who offer such loans, but it is sufficient. Over the years I've compiled a list of such lenders, here it is:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y

    Retirement accounts are just a tool. They are not for everyone. Yes, there are some trade offs, but also some great benefits. Take Roth for example: it is not just tax advantageous, or tax-deferred, it is tax-free! Just spoke with someone the other day who started with $75K traditional IRA, converted it to Roth, paid the taxes on that amount and grew it to over $2MM. That growth is tax-free. Can be great tool to help you build wealth tax free.

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Drouin:

    If you have a reciprocal relationship with another investor with a SIDRA, you can loan them money to help them grow their real estate business and they can lend you money to help you grow yours, without the crushingly brutal rates of some hard money lenders.

    Such quid-pro-quo transaction would be considered "prohibited" by the IRS and your IRA disqualified!

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y

    @Matthew Drouin

    Like you, I also prefer private lending out of my retirement account. Great strategy for the following reasons: passive, secure (low risk) and nice double-digit returns.

    But in 2013 I was presented with an off market property in Phoenix. I wanted to buy it personally but did not have enough funds at that time. I did have funds in my Roth however. Purchase price was $110K, plus $10K in repairs. I got a non-recourse loan with NASB 40% down, so my out of packet cost was $54K. The property rented for $895 so it was cash flow positive (my PITI + PM is just over $700). Today property is worth $275K and rents for $1,500.

    Was this a stupid move on my end?

  • Daniel DietzPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Reedsburg, WI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 857 votes
    5y

    I would have to agree with the side saying it is NOT 'stupid', depending on ones facts and circumstances. 

    Both my partners and I invest in buy-n-hold rentals using our SDIRAs, SOLO401Ks, and traditionally outside of retirement accounts. 

    To address your points;
    1) I do not see the problem with 'ill-liquidity' assuming that the rest of your assets balance out to your needs. The majority of our properties we plan on holding until and well into retirement. If we put them up for sale in our area they would be sold in a week, and often for cash and fast. I don't see the need of 'liquidity' in the majority of my assets.

    2) I agree that leverage can by a great tool to increase returns and build equity/wealth. But you seem to be mistaken that it is hard to do as @Dmitriy Fomichenko pointed out. We have several loans with NASB which is a big player in this space as well as 2 'HELOC' type of loans from a Private Lender at 80% LTV on a couple of properties that we owned free and clear in our retirement accounts, and used that to put down payments on new properties using commercial non-recourse loans. And they are easier to get than a conventional loan also.

    3A)There is a lack of 'traditional tax benefits' to a large degree when investing with a retirement account as far as saving on your yearly taxes. I look at it as what other returns can I get in my SDIRA or SOLO say from equities at *maybe* 10% average with moderately high risk vs 12-20% returns with real estate with much lower risk. Is that not *still* a better idea, even if I dont get the immediate tax benefits?

    3B) Many people don't realize that you CAN take depreciation *inside* of a SDIRA *if* you are also using leverage in it. Save you have a 60% loan on a property - you can *also* write off all of that interest and 60% of the depreciation when calculating if you have any takes due that year, which *might* happen when using leverage.

    3C) You also need to keep in mind that at some point unless you hold until you die you have to 'pay back' all of that depreciation that you benefited from, and you also are getting a tax benefit by having your money compound tax deferred in a Traditional Account or even *tax free* in a ROTH! Isn't tax free just as good or better than 'tax advantage' in traditional investing, that you also have to 'recapture' at some point?

    As to your points about other methods such as 'investing in a private syndication' or the like imagine this; you can invest say 500K cash and make a 500K return over 5 years that you now owe say 200K in taxes on leaving you with 300K profit - *or* you could invest 500K from your ROTH IRA or SOLO, make a 500K return and owe NO taxes and net 500K profit - a 66% better return.

    Dan Dietz

  • Investor · Westchester, NY · Member since 2014 · 96 posts · 57 votes
    5y

    SDIRA should be avoided for passive equity investments in syndication due to UBIT taxes. A qualified retirement plan, such as the eQRP are the preferred vehicle for our investors.

  • Matthew DrouinPro Member
    OP
    Developer · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 406 posts · 339 votes
    5y

    @Dmitriy Fomichenko @Daniel Dietz @John Underwood @Eamonn McElroy perhaps my use of the word "stupid" was heavy handed.  I meant to spark rigorous discussion on this topic.  By the way, I had no idea that there were so many non recourse lenders on smaller deals.  Whenever I have sought non recourse financing it's only applied to larger commercial deals and larger multifamily, so I stand corrected.

    However, in defense of my position I have 3 further arguments against buying real estate with your IRA.

    1.) I had a colleague who owned a property in his SIDRA. He had everything done rehab wise on the front end with this property. Everything seemed to be going well and then... the water main burst at the property. He was responsible for replacing the water line. The expense was $3000 of which he didn't have in cash in his SIDRA. His hands were tied and he ended up having to use cash outside of his IRA, which I believe would have been flagged as a prohibited transaction, but he couldn't just stand idly by while his tenants had no running water, etc. Unforeseen repairs can pop up much higher in cost than this incident. I understand that it might be smart to have a good balance of cash in the SIDRA in preparation of something like this, but that cash sits un invested. Which is not good (at least in my book) when it comes to long term investing.

    2.) It's going to be very unlikely that an investor will have exactly the amount that he or she needs when an opportunity comes up. For instance, if average investment grade properties are priced at $250k in their subject market and they only have $30k in their SIDRA, they will have to wait to fund their IRA enough to put that money to work, which could take years. Meanwhile that capital is not put to work, unless they park it in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc which are subject to market volatilities and shouldn't be used for shorter term investment horizons. Extrapolate this over the long term, that un invested capital, waiting patiently for an opportunity in real estate and earns a lower compound rate. Where if they were using those funds to dollar cost average in marketable securities, they could keep 100% of that capital deployed and be asset allocated optimally based upon their retirement horizon. Regarding investing in real estate outside of my IRA, I can use a multitude of creative tactics to put deals together if I do not have the cash. I don't like to be restricted.

    3.)  You still cannot benefit from pass through depreciation and carry forward losses to offset tax liabilities from their active source of income.  I am a firm believer in time value of money.  I would rather take a savings in cash today, and reinvest it today rather than part with money now from the one of the highest form of taxed income; earned income.


    Thank you all for contributing here.  You are all smarter than I.  I'm the idiot.  That's why I'm in the Idiot's Business: real estate haha.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y

    @Matthew Drouin

    I like to buy Tax liens, loan money and buy super cheap properties with my SDIRA cash.

    I have bought a 25k, 12K, 2500 (tax lien that turned into a rental) 8k (tax lien that turned into a rental)

    These houses where fixed up with my ample cash reserves. Many are rented for right at 1k/month. 

    So I am not losing out to much on the depreciation of a 25K house.

    1. I keep plenty of extra cash reserves to pay for repairs and maintenance. No bid deal if I need a roof or a HVAC.

    2. I'm not buying a property without plenty of cash reserves in my SDIRA. It would be stupid to do otherwise.

    3. Not worried about depreciation (especially on cheap houses) as I am banking mad tax free money.

    Because I get a good deal of rent every month my biggest problem is that I am accumulating cash (tax free) so fast I am having a hard time finding more properties to buy or keeping it lent out at 12% and 2 points (tax free) on short term loans to local rehabbers. I do have some of it invested in tax liens (paying up to 12% tax free interest) that I hope to turn into a couple cheaply acquired rental properties.

    When I reach 59.5 I will have the option of pulling out 5k to 10k every month of tax free rental income or letting it build up more as there are no RMD's on a ROTH.

    This is just one of many sources of money for me in retirement.

  • Real Estate Agent · New York City · Member since 2020 · 818 posts · 639 votes
    5y

    I think the liquidity argument doesn't make sense - it's illiquid anyway! 

    But agree with you regarding the tax benefits. This is what I tell people all the time! 

    RE is so tax advantaged as is, why eat into your legal tax shelter. The juice should be worth the squeeze 

  • Wholesaler, Rehabber and Landlord · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    1 & 2, your IRA can borrow from other people or from other people's IRA or from NASB.

    Let that sink in for a moment...

    If my ira wants to buy a 250k house and I have 30k in my account, my ira can borrow from your ira 220k or 230k or 250k. OR my ira can borrow from people that I know and do the transaction. And then when a pipe bursts, I can get a 2nd on the house from Billy Bob's ira for 5k(fix the 3k pipe and still have 2k in the ira for other issues). Billy Bob might have a little bitty ira with only 5k and he wants to get 12% return on that 2nd. My ira will pay his ira 12% if it is in that situation.

    I think you might need to learn a little more before you say things are stupid and then you look like the stupid one!! It might not work for you, or you might not find it beneficial, but it probably works just fine for others.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:

    @Matthew Drouin

    I like to buy Tax liens, loan money and buy super cheap properties with my SDIRA cash.

    I have bought a 25k, 12K, 2500 (tax lien that turned into a rental) 8k (tax lien that turned into a rental)

    These houses where fixed up with my ample cash reserves. Many are rented for right at 1k/month. 

    So I am not losing out to much on the depreciation of a 25K house.

    1. I keep plenty of extra cash reserves to pay for repairs and maintenance. No bid deal if I need a roof or a HVAC.

    2. I'm not buying a property without plenty of cash reserves in my SDIRA. It would be stupid to do otherwise.

    3. Not worried about depreciation (especially on cheap houses) as I am banking mad tax free money.

    Because I get a good deal of rent every month my biggest problem is that I am accumulating cash (tax free) so fast I am having a hard time finding more properties to buy or keeping it lent out at 12% and 2 points (tax free) on short term loans to local rehabbers. I do have some of it invested in tax liens (paying up to 12% tax free interest) that I hope to turn into a couple cheaply acquired rental properties.

    When I reach 59.5 I will have the option of pulling out 5k to 10k every month of tax free rental income or letting it build up more as there are no RMD's on a ROTH.

    This is just one of many sources of money for me in retirement.

    John in your scenario it works like a charm look at the dollars ( relatively small risks per property) . where I would tend to agree with the OP is I have seen folks use their IRA and not understand the actual costs of ownership and end up in a tough spot when they don't have enough reserves in the IRA ( example they have 50k and spend 45k of the cash thinking 5k is enough reserves.) .. I certainly like it for buy low sell high though in short term turnovers i have been doing that since the 80s.. and of course notes are a good option for these accounts.

    But as I have said before your  sand box is pretty cool and very hard to duplicate in most of the US.. but then again you play the hand your dealt and the money is made in real estate when you understand the very technical type transactions.. where the mass's just think of vanilla sales ..  lots of action behind the curtain in real estate if you know how or where to look !!

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Drouin:

    ... I had a colleague who owned a property in his SIDRA. He had everything done rehab wise on the front end with this property. Everything seemed to be going well and then... the water main burst at the property. He was responsible for replacing the water line. The expense was $3000 of which he didn't have in cash in his SIDRA. His hands were tied and he ended up having to use cash outside of his IRA, which I believe would have been flagged as a prohibited transaction, but he couldn't just stand idly by while his tenants had no running water, etc. Unforeseen repairs can pop up much higher in cost than this incident. I understand that it might be smart to have a good balance of cash in the SIDRA in preparation of something like this, but that cash sits un invested. Which is not good (at least in my book) when it comes to long term investing.

    Matthew, the issue you are raising already been well addressed by @John Underwood. Just keep adequate reserves. It doesn't have to be "un invested". You can invest it, just into something liquid (mutual funds for example). And besides, if you are buying a rental outside of an IRA - you still need reserves, so I'm not sure I follow your logic here...

    Making a blanket statement based on someone else's singular experience is unwise. It seems to me that your knowledge and experience with self-directed IRA is quite limited so I encourage you to be open-minded and just hear what others who did it successfully are saying. Perhaps you can learn a thing or two which can benefit you... At the end of the day maybe owning a rental in an IRA is not for you (it is certainly not for everybody), but trying to convince those who successfully did it that they are stupid is not a winning strategy. Educating others on potential pitfalls would be very helpful.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2019 · 173 posts · 87 votes
    5y

    @Matthew Drouin

    It's stupid for a lot of reasons. The point of real estate investing is to build passive cash flow to quit your main job and have flexibility. You also lose out on depreciation like you stated. The real estate should be cash flowing while showing a loss on paper.

  • Matthew DrouinPro Member
    OP
    Developer · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 406 posts · 339 votes
    5y

    @Patrick J. Thank you! I’ve been getting my *** kicked here! Haha

  • Matthew DrouinPro Member
    OP
    Developer · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 406 posts · 339 votes
    5y

    @Patrick J. Thank you! I’ve been getting my *** kicked here! Haha

  • Rental Property Investor · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2019 · 173 posts · 87 votes
    5y

    @Matthew Drouin

    People having 50 different retirement vehicles so when they turn 60, they can travel the world in their wheelchair with back pain and arthritis lol. Many wont even live till 60.

    People get blinded by the new shiny toy that they forget, REAL ESTATE IS THE RETIREMENT VEHICLE so why put a retirement vehicle into another retirement vehicle which you can't even enjoy until you're dead or crippled with medical issues. There's always a new shiny toy out every year. Mark Kohler pushes this SDIRA crap too for real estate investing.

    KISS- Keep It Simple Stupid

  • Matthew DrouinPro Member
    OP
    Developer · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 406 posts · 339 votes
    5y

    @Patrick J. I’ve traveled a lot and I’ve seen this. People who finally got the chance to live out their dreams. That’s why I’m not a fan of retirement accounts. I saw my parents die in my 20s. Even if you were to make it to retirement, God willing, try and travel to Positano when you’re 60 years old and see how fun it is. There’s no ADA outside of the states. I want to go to places where the bathroom is in the basement and not think twice as to how I’m going to get there.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Drouin:

    @Patrick J. Thank you! I’ve been getting my *** kicked here! Haha

    You're kicking your own butt.  Separately, there are plenty of ways to get money out of retirement accounts prior to retirement age (Roth conversion ladder, 72(t) distribution, or just get the match and pay the small penalty).

  • Matthew DrouinPro Member
    OP
    Developer · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 406 posts · 339 votes
    5y

    @Mike Dymski please elaborate on what you just said!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Patrick J.:

    @Matthew Drouin

    People having 50 different retirement vehicles so when they turn 60, they can travel the world in their wheelchair with back pain and arthritis lol. Many wont even live till 60.

    People get blinded by the new shiny toy that they forget, REAL ESTATE IS THE RETIREMENT VEHICLE so why put a retirement vehicle into another retirement vehicle which you can't even enjoy until you're dead or crippled with medical issues. There's always a new shiny toy out every year. Mark Kohler pushes this SDIRA crap too for real estate investing.

    KISS- Keep It Simple Stupid

    Well I am past 60 and hardly a cripple LOL  but I hear you loud and clear.. you know 60 is the new 40..  that said I have basically done what your talking about I personally could have hoarded and saved and so on and so forth .. but I chose to live in the Jet age and to me spending money on travel and experiences was as rewarding as what others are saving for to try to quit their day jobs.. but again I have been a real estate sales/broker since 18 so I have never worked for anyone anyway.. So I dont really know that mind set..  As I age out my high school friends are starting to pass.. One of my best friends passed 3 years ago now of a massive heartattack 3 months from full retirement. He worked in the water department in a Northern CA town for 30 years I helped him buy his home which he had paid for .. and we had many plans to do what we both love go trout fishing ..

    So there is a balance.. and for me being north of 65 I have all sorts fo business I work on every day I work harder now than I did in my 30s when I lived in the Napa Valley and play 140 rounds of golf a year.. at this age what else is there to do.. We have been all over the world ( and as you point out at an age we could easily do it) We still travel but we have international clients so we travel to see them. 

    Any way  so in a short hand way I agree with you on stopping to smell the roses when your young enough to do it.. but many simply dont have those choices they choose a job that they must keep at until they can retire and maybe  a week vacation to Hawaii or go party at Vegas is some highlights.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Drouin:

    @Patrick J. I’ve traveled a lot and I’ve seen this. People who finally got the chance to live out their dreams. That’s why I’m not a fan of retirement accounts. I saw my parents die in my 20s. Even if you were to make it to retirement, God willing, try and travel to Positano when you’re 60 years old and see how fun it is. There’s no ADA outside of the states. I want to go to places where the bathroom is in the basement and not think twice as to how I’m going to get there.

    Or use the bathrooms even in France that are holes in the ground with treads to squat on..  its not Kansas.  Europe and most of the rest of the world has no ADA.. 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.