Seeking clarification on conflict with AB1482 text and C.A.R. NTT

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Seeking clarification on conflict with AB1482 text and C.A.R. NTT

Peter Eberhardt
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 84 posts · 107 votes

Yes, I am seeking legal consul on this specific question. But as I am trying to get through to any attorney these days,  I also want to ask the BP community in parallel for any clarification. 

I want to serve notice to one of my units under the grounds of intent to owner occupy, and I want to make sure I am fully complying with AB1482. The California NTT form has a clause after owner occupant "no fault cause" that states  "Tennant has previously agreed that owner may unilaterally terminate the tenancy for such a reason (C.A.R form RCJC dated_____)". 

I have highlighted this statement below. 

The bill text in AB1482 states that the tenant has to agree to owners intent to occupy in writing if the lease was entered into on or after July 1, 2020. The unit lease was entered in August of 2019, therefore would imply that the tenant does not have to agree that the owner may unilaterally terminate the tenancy via form RCJC. I have highlighted this text in AB1482 (CIV 1946.2) below

If I am reading this correctly, it would seem that the statement I highlighted in the NTT form is not a universal statement that applies to all leases, only ones that are created and entered into on or after July 1st, 2020. Should I simply serve the RCJC form with the NTT form? Or serve the RCJC form first and if the tenant does not sign, that falls under a similar provision to terminate tenancy as the purposes outlined in subparagraph (E) of paragraph (1) of the bill text? 

Thoughts? 

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Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @Peter Eberhardt:

@Dan Heuschele Hey Dan, you are correct. But the notification of the right is not required for leases entered before July 1st 2020 according to AB1482 in regards to owner occupancy. That is the part I highlighted in the second photo.

 My apologies.  It appears some text with respect to the right to move in family that was in the earlier forms of this bill has been removed.  At one point AB1482 dictated the LL had to provide tenant notice to maintain the right to move family into the unit.  The bill even provided the wording to use.  This has been removed.  

I agree with your interpretation.  a lease signed prior to July 1, 2020 automatically maintains the right to move family into the unit.  For leases signed after that date, it must be indicated in the lease. 

Good luck

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  • Jon Schwartz
    Realtor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 952 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    @Peter Eberhardt, I believe your interpretation is correct, though I'm not a lawyer. I'd say it's worth the $300 or so a lawyer will charge you to draft a notice of termination. Serve that instead of the standard CAR form which, I believe, does not apply to your situation.

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  • Peter Eberhardt
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 84 posts · 107 votes
    4y

    @Jon Schwartz I would agree it is worth it, problem is I can’t find a reputable lawyer to take my money

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  • Jon Schwartz
    Realtor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 952 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    @Peter Eberhardt, have you tried typing "san diego eviction attorney" or "san diego landlord attorney" or "san diego real estate lawyer" into google?

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  • Peter Eberhardt
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 84 posts · 107 votes
    4y

    @Jon Schwartz

    Yes. I use Yelp but same thing. Open up the first two pages worth of websites, sent a email enquiry or call the firm, and it’s either “we aren’t taking on new clients” or “yes I can set you up with a $2k retainer to review the bill and other associated codes”. The latter I feel like I would be paying them to catch them up to speed on things I already know and for them to educate themselves on the bill and current situations in the ever changing landscape.

    I’m just hoping to find someone that already is up to speed, and just pay a flat fee to review the notices and processes I have. Maybe I’m thinking about it or going about it the wrong way but I’m going to keep trying.

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  • Sam YinPro Member
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2021 · 583 posts · 738 votes
    4y

    I use an eviction attorney from the Orange County area recently.  Got the job done fairly quickly. The tenants booted out on November 1.  No issues.  Cost about $1000.  He was impolite, unpleasant, and blunt, but that's just his personality and tone.  In fact, that whole law office was full of jerks, male and female, but they get the job done. Let me know if you want his information.



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  • Peter Eberhardt
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 84 posts · 107 votes
    4y

    @Sam Yin well I’m not looking to evict but yes, I will defiantly give them a shot if you don’t mind sharing their info?

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  • Sam YinPro Member
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2021 · 583 posts · 738 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Peter Eberhardt:

    @Sam Yin well I’m not looking to evict but yes, I will defiantly give them a shot if you don’t mind sharing their info?

    Check your inbox

    0Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    4y

    I am not a lawyer.  Take this as my opinion of your situation. 

    I believe you have an issue.  AB1482 states that to have maintained the right to move family into the unit, the tenant had to be notified of the intent to maintain this right.  The regulation even provides the text to have provided the tenant.   Was the tenant provided this text that would have maintained the right to terminate lease to move famly into the unit?

    The implication is that if this text was not provided to the tenant, the LL does not maintain this right.  I will state that I do not view AB1482 crystal clear on the time span to provide the notification.  The intent was likely that this notification to maintain right to move family into unit was to be included in the mandated notification that the unit was rent controlled and that notification was intended to be provided in a timely manner.  

    Assuming the notification to maintain right to move family was not provided, it is my belief that you list this right.   

    I suspect it may not be legally and definitely not morally correct, but it is highly unlikely that most tenants would know that they should have received written notice of your desire to maintain your right to move family in.  You could tell them you plan to terminate their lease to move into the unit and see if they move out at the stated date.  

    Good luck

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  • Sam YinPro Member
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2021 · 583 posts · 738 votes
    4y

    Peter, I just took another look at your form. I would consider using a different version/type.

    0Reply
  • Rob Massopust
    Real Estate Broker · Santa Ana CA [South Coast Metro] · Member since 2016 · 459 posts · 202 votes
    4y

    How many units

    How long has tenant been there [over 12 months 60days etc]

    Are you moving in yourself

    Are you using the extensive repairs

    Is there any other rent control in that city besides CA rent control

    0Reply
  • Rob Massopust
    Real Estate Broker · Santa Ana CA [South Coast Metro] · Member since 2016 · 459 posts · 202 votes
    4y

    I always add some relocation or free rent to get more cooperation. 

    Alot of cities are cracking down on the "just cause" so if you can get them to agree to a voluntary vacancy it is much better situation and if they do not agree with that then you can evict with unlawful detainer*

    *not legal advice just my opinion - each city and circumstance can be different

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  • Peter Eberhardt
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 84 posts · 107 votes
    4y

    @Dan Heuschele Hey Dan, you are correct. But the notification of the right is not required for leases entered before July 1st 2020 according to AB1482 in regards to owner occupancy. That is the part I highlighted in the second photo.

    0Reply
  • Peter Eberhardt
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 84 posts · 107 votes
    4y

    @Rob Massopust Hey Rob. 4 units, and the county (Kern County) falls under AB1482 with no other stricter ordinance. All tenants have been there over one year. And yes relocation assistance is mandatory under AB1482 that I will be complying with.

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  • Rob Massopust
    Real Estate Broker · Santa Ana CA [South Coast Metro] · Member since 2016 · 459 posts · 202 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Peter Eberhardt:

    @Rob Massopust Hey Rob. 4 units, and the county (Kern County) falls under AB1482 with no other stricter ordinance. All tenants have been there over one year. And yes relocation assistance is mandatory under AB1482 that I will be complying with.\

    I see, how much relocation and tenants on month to month?

    60 day minimum if you can issue a NTT - not guaranteed  - need to check with attorney

    and are tenants way under market or can you go under the guise of "substantial remodel"

    You have to weigh the upside vs costs and make that calculation.sometimes it might be best to raise rents and wait it out

    or do a voluntary vacany with the assumption of going to do a remodel and if that is the case go all in and issue everyone the same notice and relocation costs so you are not singling anyone out etc and covers you incase it comes back

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  • Peter Eberhardt
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 84 posts · 107 votes
    4y

    @Rob Massopust Relocation is one months rent ($825). Market rent is $1200, would take 5 years for rent to get up for today’s numbers and I’m not going to wait that out. My NTT is going to be 75 days

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  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Peter Eberhardt:

    @Dan Heuschele Hey Dan, you are correct. But the notification of the right is not required for leases entered before July 1st 2020 according to AB1482 in regards to owner occupancy. That is the part I highlighted in the second photo.

     My apologies.  It appears some text with respect to the right to move in family that was in the earlier forms of this bill has been removed.  At one point AB1482 dictated the LL had to provide tenant notice to maintain the right to move family into the unit.  The bill even provided the wording to use.  This has been removed.  

    I agree with your interpretation.  a lease signed prior to July 1, 2020 automatically maintains the right to move family into the unit.  For leases signed after that date, it must be indicated in the lease. 

    Good luck

    1Reply
  • Sam YinPro Member
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2021 · 583 posts · 738 votes
    4y

    Without trying complicate this subject matter... and since I just went through 3 evictions here in SoCal...

    There are a few nuances you have to take into consideration for your own advantage. Is the property in your name or something else? You have way more rights as a Landlord if the property is in your name, not in an LLC, Partnership, Trust, etc...

    I evicted 3 tenants. 2 in a SFR, and 1 was in an 8plex. I did not give anyone relocation fee. I kept their deposits. I started on the road to an unlawful detainer one one, and they agreed to leave prior to trial.

    If you are to make REI a profitable business, you have to take the emotions out of it. It may be tough for many, but that detachment is the only way to grow. It took me a long time to shift my mindset. When I decided to make this a business and treated as such, I went from cash flowing maybe $30k/yr to over $130k/yr in under 18 months. I say this because many of us, myself included, have a hard time making that distinction. Having gone through it and studying the rent control rules really closely, I can tell you that many attorneys are not up to snuff, they are there to make a quick buck because they know many landlords are fearful.

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  • Sam YinPro Member
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2021 · 583 posts · 738 votes
    4y

    Additionally, to be clear, i am not an attorney. I only wish to contribute my experiences for the collective good. Aside from the 3 evictions I completed this summer, I cometed evictions last summer too. As well, I have been evicted personally several years ago.

    0Reply
  • Peter Eberhardt
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 84 posts · 107 votes
    4y

    @Sam Yin Just to be clear, I am not evicting, I am terminating tenancy. hopefully it doesn’t lead to an eviction but we will see. Termination of tenancy under no fault just cause you are required to pay a relocation assistance. And yes I am terminating tenancy to run a more profitable business.

    0Reply
  • Steve You
    Member since 2022 · 1 post · 0 votes
    4y

    @Sam Yin I am currently trying to evict a tenant in Pasadena area and looking for a lawyer who can get the job done, could you please send his information to me? Thank you so much.

    0Reply
  • Sam YinPro Member
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2021 · 583 posts · 738 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Steve You:

    @Sam Yin I am currently trying to evict a tenant in Pasadena area and looking for a lawyer who can get the job done, could you please send his information to me? Thank you so much.

    Sent you a PM.  

    0Reply
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