Telling Tenants You're the Property Manager

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Telling Tenants You're the Property Manager

Matthew Kirkwold
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2021 · 26 posts · 21 votes

Hello everyone,

I've heard that some people will tell their tenants they are the property manager so that when a dispute comes up they can say the "owner" is the "bad guy" and not them. On the other side of the coin, like I read in The Book on Managing Rental Properties, you can also make the lease the "bad guy" and be firm on enforcing the lease of the property you own. I'm wondering what you think is the better approach especially considering the fact that your name will be listed as the owner on the county/city GIS website that the tenants could easily see. I feel like it would be a bad situation if the tenant actually looks up the listed owner of the property, then confronts you and you are caught in a lie.

Secondly, considering that the owner and owner address are both public info and easily accessible on the city GIS site, is there any way to keep your personal address private? I have a feeling there isn't if you are wanting the property in your name to avoid setting up an LLC and get residential financing on the property instead of commercial. I agree its not good to have your personal address easily accessible to tenants but are there any other options?

Thanks!!

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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @Matthew Kirkwold:

Hello everyone,

I've heard that some people will tell their tenants they are the property manager so that when a dispute comes up they can say the "owner" is the "bad guy" and not them. On the other side of the coin, like I read in The Book on Managing Rental Properties, you can also make the lease the "bad guy" and be firm on enforcing the lease of the property you own. I'm wondering what you think is the better approach especially considering the fact that your name will be listed as the owner on the county/city GIS website that the tenants could easily see. I feel like it would be a bad situation if the tenant actually looks up the listed owner of the property, then confronts you and you are caught in a lie.

Secondly, considering that the owner and owner address are both public info and easily accessible on the city GIS site, is there any way to keep your personal address private? I have a feeling there isn't if you are wanting the property in your name to avoid setting up an LLC and get residential financing on the property instead of commercial. I agree its not good to have your personal address easily accessible to tenants but are there any other options?

Thanks!!

We're in the same situation here with the county website. If you want to hide your address here, you can generally set up a mail box with a UPS Store, and use that.

You can get a fake ID in some other name and if there are plenty of pics of you floating around the Web, claim you're the owner's cousin to explain the physical resemblance.

But generally, if you're self-managing and dealing with a situation when you're renting out single family and residential small multiplex (up to quadplex), this kind of thing isn't a good idea. When you buy the property, you're going to have to introduce yourself to the neighbors. You will tend to learn about and acquire properties with a certain proximity to each other, so you may end up owning multiple properties in a small area. Keeping the fake and real names straight with everybody could get complicated.

As far as making the lease the bad guy goes...I live in Allegheny County, in Pennsylvania. The local district magistrates have enormous authority in dictating what you should do or shouldn't do for a tenant, and the kind of lease sticklers you're talking about don't do well in court. "The lease is the lease is the lease" will work up to a point when you're in court trying to evict your tenant, but not beyond that point. You're not going to be able to use the lease to enforce all kinds of arbitrary, petty, often vindictive rules, as we often see here by new or mentally deficient landlords writing here on Bigger Pockets.

So for us, the best alternative is to introduce ourselves as the landlords, have a straightforward lease, screen carefully, and avoid signing leases for more than six months or a year.

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  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Matthew Kirkwold you don't have to invent someone to run it by if you are undecided. You don't need an excuse to do things in what you think is the right way. Most of this is self-confidence. 

    "I can see this is a question that is important for you and I want to give you a thought out answer rather than responding off-the-cuff. Lets talk tomorrow via phone/email/in person."

    5Reply
  • Daniel SmythPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2019 · 471 posts · 342 votes
    4y

    @Matthew Kirkwold

    My properties are under my LLC but for two.

    The LLC owned properties I manage and pay myself to be the property manager.

    I have no bones about disclosing that I own the other properties. Likewise, the lease is there to protect all parties. I am pretty easy to get along with and my tenants know I am in business to make a profit. My tenants work to make a profit and there is no shame that I should make a profit.

    I have a good report with my tenants. I don't feel ashamed to say " I am not prepared to fix or replace this or that.

    The LLC owned properties I can use the cloak of being just a PM to buy my some time if needed.

    Since I own my properties with the intention of continued cash flow, I have no issues with repairs and such. The saying "pay me now or pay me more later" is a well learned fact of this business.

    If I was just holding to dump in a few years, I suppose I could use that protection to skirt my due diligence. Perhaps my kids can do this when I croak.

    Good luck.

    [email protected]
    1Reply
  • Wale LawalBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Houston | Dallas | Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    People like honest just be honest.

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    2Reply
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    The ones I self manage well they already know I’m the owner. The ones I don’t self manage it’s not an issue.

    2Reply
  • Zachary Collins
    Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 33 posts · 15 votes
    4y

    @Matthew Kirkwold

    Personally I prefer to tell the truth.

    Sometimes there are are uncomfortable conflicts you have to deal with, and while it sucks, it’s just part of it

    2Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    4y

    I'd like to think I've done both honestly.  It's not either you are a coward and a liar or you are the known owner.

    I am a working stiff for my mgmt Corp.  With houses and small plexes,  I think all my tenants know I own them, but rent is paid to my mgt co, the landlord is the mgt co on the lease, etc.  Nobody l don't think has even asked either way in my 19 years. 

    I don't think my larger multi tenants know I own anything. They don't ask.  I don't act or look like anyone not in their class.

    As far as your home address being public record, we have a PO Box.  All county records show the PO Box, the leases, notices, my mgt co etc all list the PO Box as the mailing address. 

    I am both the owner and PM and am not dishonest. 

    3Reply
  • Kimberly Gamez
    Rental Property Investor · Grass Lake, MI · Member since 2021 · 43 posts · 20 votes
    4y

    @Matthew Kirkwold I like to blame my “partners” even though I don’t technically have any. 😅 So it’s only a modest lie, and you aren’t not saying you are the landlord. 🤷🏼‍♀️

    2Reply
  • Deb TarasiewiczPro Member
    CO · Member since 2020 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    4y

    Depending on your RE business structure you can claim you manage the property for the owner(s). The entity structure can remove the owners name on public records as well. Find a good lawyer that is also a RE Investor to help build the right entity to have anonymity on public records.

    2Reply
  • Tanner Sherman
    Real Estate Broker · Omaha, NE · Member since 2020 · 329 posts · 203 votes
    4y

    Matt,

    This is a great question and I have counseled many clients on this. My personal opinion is that when househacking, you don't want the tenant to know you are self managing or they will come knocking on your door any time they have a problem. This isn't a big deal if you only have a few properties, but the goal for most is to build a business. A business revolves around systems. Creating these systems early on will help you in the long run. 

    What my wife and I did on our first duplex is create an LLC for property management, and she introduced herself as the property manager. Her name is not on the county website, but I don't think tenants really ever look that kind of stuff up. The one thing this allowed her to do is distance herself from being the bad guy. When the tenants make a request, she informs them that she will run it by the owners, and then when she has to deliver an outcome that they are less than satisfied with, they tend to not take their frustrations out on her as it is directed towards the owners. If you are purchasing an investment property and are able to put it in an LLC name, the problem of a tenant looking it up is alleviated but I understand that this isn't always the case. I do have clients that have decided to self manage and let the tenants know they are the owner, and there haven't been any major issues thus far.

    I will say that I agree with the below comments regarding integrity and that you shouldn't lie to your tenants. 

    3Reply
  • Tanner Sherman
    Real Estate Broker · Omaha, NE · Member since 2020 · 329 posts · 203 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    @Matthew Kirkwold new landlords do this out of fear of confrontation. It is a mistake to lie about your identity. Tenants find out you are lying, then you look like a fool and have no credibility. More importantly, you want honesty from your tenant, so it is pretty hypocritical to lie to them and expect them to be honest. Trust is a two way street. Treat people fair, but that doesn't mean saying yes to everything. Have firm policies and simply say, "I am sorry no, our lease doesn't allow that". Saying no is like building a muscle. The more you say it, the better you get at doing it. 

    I have had people say "but it is not a lie because I am the property manager". There is three problems with that:

    1. Omitting critical facts is a form of lying. It is called lie by omission. 

    2. Tenants will generally ask if you own the property or who owns the property. Then you are forced to either come clean or push the lie further.

    3. Property ownership is public record in South Dakota. With little effort, someone can find out who owns the property. LLC ownership is also also public record and you can't register an LLC to a PO Box.

    When I started in this business, I told tenants I was the property manager. A few months late, one of them says "I drove by your house, it is very nice". The tenant found out who owned the property and my address was on the county records. It was awkward, but also taught me a valuable lesson. From that point forward, I have openly disclosed I am the owner. It is actually very empowering. I don't need to "ask the owner". Requests are answered quickly and I am not talking to imaginary friends. 

    If you want to self manage, be prepared to be the "bad guy". No manager can say yes to everything. That is true in the rental property business and true in ANY business. A good analogy is parenting. If a parent said yes to everything a child wanted, they would sit on their iPad for 8 hours a day eating candy and never brush their teeth. Saying no is actually BETTER for the child and also BETTER for the tenant. Having rules and boundaries is the only way to keep a business from failing. If you are not able to adapt your mindset, then hiring a property manager may be the best option.

    Joe- I really like your point about making the lease the "bad guy". A well written lease has agreed upon terms and any time an issue arises the correct response would be, "Let me check the lease". 

    2Reply
  • John Warren
    Real Estate Broker · 3412 S. Harlem Avenue Riverside, IL 60546 · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    @Matthew Kirkwold I agree with other posters here. This is probably one of the dumbest pieces of advice I see here on BP regularly, and here in Illinois it also isn't even legal for those of us with a license since we have to disclose that we have an interest in the property. There are definitely some difficult conversations with tenants, especially when you manage in C class but you just set boundaries. Sometimes you have to say no. 

    2Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Jennifer Jo McCallon:

    I agree, honesty is the best policy. If you were (like me about 15 years ago) a young woman investor, you may say you are reporting to other co-owners (true, I had a husband). 

    I don't remember what book I read 15+ years ago on the topic, but he recommended not driving a high-end car. Pulling up in your Tesla to collect section 8 rents is not going to go over well in many communities (of course if you are renting swanky lofts at a premium, go fort). Set appropriate boundaries, these are not your friends, be business like and don't be afraid to be a landlord. Take a leadership class, do power poses, shout affirmations at yourself inside your car on the drive over if you have to. Any of this is better than feeling a need to straight up lie. 

     Exactly! I have seen some landlords pull up in a brand new sports car after just giving the tenant a rent increase. Then at Christmas they give the tenant a $25 gift card and think the tenant will want to be their best friend. In reality the tenant is thinking "my rent increase paid for the sports car and that gift card". The tenant says "thanks you are a great landlord" hoping if they stroke your ego that you don't jack their rent again next year.

    2Reply
  • Nick Ferguson
    Investor · Parma, OH · Member since 2016 · 101 posts · 46 votes
    4y

    Don't lie to your tenants.  

    Set fair and realistic expectations and then do what is best based on the situation.  If a request is reasonable and you can accommodate, do so.  If a request is unreasonable or sets a precedent that you don't want to set, then tell them that and move on.  If you're fair and firm and honest, you should have a good working relationship.

    4Reply
  • Franklin Romine
    Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    4y

    I you say you're the property manager,  I would leave it at that.  That doesn't mean your lying about not being the owner.  

    1Reply
  • Bud Gaffney
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    You say "I am the manager now" (Captain Phillip voice)

    2Reply
  • Chris C.
    Raleigh, NC · Member since 2017 · 347 posts · 94 votes
    4y

    @Steve Vaughan when you're the only one answering the phone, doing the maintenance, showing the places, etc. How would they not know you're the owner?

    1Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Chris C.:

    @Steve Vaughan when you're the only one answering the phone, doing the maintenance, showing the places, etc. How would they not know you're the owner?

    They get a business card that says I'm the regional mgr of the mgt co and they are our #1 asset.    I'm just the bad handyman in the minivan.  They never ask.  

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Franklin Romine:

    I you say you're the property manager,  I would leave it at that.  That doesn't mean your lying about not being the owner.  

     So if tenant says "I mailed rent last week" but you later find out they mailed it to the wrong address intentionally, did they lie to you? This is called "lie by omission" which is when you leave out critical details in an effort to deceive someone. This is also knowns as a "half-truth". I am not saying you need to volunteer information if they don't ask, but if they say "what is your role" or "are you the owner", you should be truthful. We expect honesty from tenants, so landlords should provide the same.

    0Reply
  • Franklin Romine
    Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    4y

    We eliminated that problem.  We do not accept paper currency.  Everyone pays online with Checking Account, debit or credit card. 

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Franklin Romine:

    We eliminated that problem.  We do not accept paper currency.  Everyone pays online with Checking Account, debit or credit card. 

     Lol it was an analogy. Did you seriously not understand that or are you just trying to be snarky?

    0Reply
  • Terrell Garren
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    Don't say you are just the PM, blame the lease, blame the partners, have to check with your spouse, need time to think about it, etc. 

    Be a proud, visible property owner that can make hard/fair decisions, and look people in the eye and tell them exactly what you think. Tenants may not like you; but they will respect you. 

    2Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    FWIW, and to add to the already great info posted, being honest is important. It sets a bar and it is important that tenants respect you, as the LL.   There is a thriving market of applicants that want to lease from small mom and pop shops and not from the mega LLs.   I use this to my advantage. I supply 5* customer service and treat my tenants like the customers they are.  I have found, at least in my market, that I get a better quality of applicant and if tenants know there is no "man" to screw over they will be happy to pay rent even in times of black swan events. 

    My moto is treat others how I would want to be treated. Its girl/boy scout-ish, but it is the best policy in most instances. 

    2Reply
  • Maurice D.
    Coppell, TX · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 310 votes
    4y

    long thread! but I will chime in.

    Learn to say NO.   

    I will preface this with an equally difficult issue for many.  Public speaking.  Have you ever given a talk? it is nerve wrecking!  when I see some people talk, it seems like every other word is Eh, Uh, Eh..  STOP.  if you are nervous and short for the next word, PAUSE and shut up.  no filler needed.

    with NO it is similar, we feel are afraid of uttering it and follwing with a long explanation why.

    You don't need to explain your decision or the math behind it!  

    Tenant wants you to fix something cosmetic? minor?  you can say No, I am not going to fix that at this time. (and shut up about the why).

    The other thing worth mentioning with NO is training needy tenants.  some are broken and used to appeasement. you can break that routine with one powerful word followed by silence.  NO.

    3Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    @Matthew Kirkwold     it is fine to say you are the owner, the thing not to do is remind them you are an owner all the time. This goes with making the lease the bad guy.  It's not because I said so but because that is the agreement we made.  It is a fine difference but an important one because people don't like things thrown in their face.  You want to say do it this way because it is the way I manage the property not because I own the place. 

    As for a p.o.  box vs your address. RI has a similar rule.  You have to have an address in your lease to receive legal communications during normal business hours. You can get a street address by paying $50 and using a registered agent for your rental. That address can appear in your leases and they will scan you communications. No one uses it but it is there. 

    0Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Daniel Smyth you know that it is easy to look up LLCs and see who the owners are, right? any tenant can see you are lying. Best to be honest. 

    I find that tenant (at least in the class of rentals I own) appreciate knowing they are dealing with an owner that cares and this is a huge selling point ....

    0Reply
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