Handyman fell down the roof

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Handyman fell down the roof

Kimnee L.
Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 17 votes

Hi all. I am wondering what my liability is when someone fell down my roof. Recently it was raining hard. Tenant called me, and I asked another tenant who had repaired roofs for me before. He has no license. He then took his neighbor along with him.  The brought the neighbor's ladder to the home with the roof leak.  The neighbor went up the roof then the handyman tenant went up too, but while near the roof, the ladder slid and he fell to the concrete driveway.  He was in and out of consciousness and spit out blood. He is now being incubated.  He has been a good and friendly tenant to me.  The neighbor who went with him said the roof was fine except a small hole near a pipe, and he patched the hole.  My concern is how liable I am for his injury?  

Thank you,

Kim

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Matthew Olszak
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y

I'd change/limit your name on here asap before google catches this page and your statements/admissions.

Call an attorney and have them submit any necessary claim to the insurance company. This may go nowhere, the injured person might feel it was their fault and eat it. But a family/friend bird might chirp in their ear about going after you. Or their health insurance provider might subrogate the claim and go after you and your insurer for what they had to pay. I know when I injured my knee at home, my health insurance provider had me fill out paperwork detailing the circumstances of the injury and certify it was not employment related.

Regardless of the employment situation, someone was injured on your property, so you may be liable to them.

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  • Kimnee L.
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 17 votes
    4y

    He is now being incubated.

    4Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    Wow, bad news.....first concern is I hope he's ok soon. Second concern is without Workers Comp you might be in trouble since you asked him/them to do the work....and you knew they were not licensed. Does the Handyman have a real business with liability insurance?

    That's why we always stress on this forum to use only licensed/boned/insured workers....

    Let us know how it goes....

    11Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    4y

    I hope your handyman is OK. This is scary for him and for you.

    I hope this asset is in an LLC by itself. Forget having up to a million per LLC. I prefer to have much less assets in each LLC.

    5Reply
  • Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    You should call an attorney asap. 

    I don't think an LLC would help here- If that house is worth $100k and he has $500k of medical bills it's very likely that corporate veil can be pierced.


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    16Reply
  • Greg M.
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    If I were you, I'd contact my insurance company immediately and seriously consider consulting with a lawyer. Your tenant was friendly, but now they are looking at a major life altering event and potentially a multi-million dollar claim against you. 

    15Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    @Greg M. is right. If he is unable to work for a year, or forever, that is on you unfortunately. Call a lawyer and your insurance company right now....do not wait because it is Xmas Eve. Also go to the hospital and see this guy and his family. Act like you care...that can go a long way.

    8Reply
  • David P.
    Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes
    4y

    Thats a bad bad move. Should have known better but too late now. You will definitely get sued so hopefully your liability insurance is high. I would start transferring your assets to a family member if I were you. If his intubated then that might mean he has brain damage and needs a machine to help do the job of the lungs. Did he fell on his head?

    4Reply
  • Kimnee L.
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 17 votes
    4y

    He had severe internal bleeding. Unable to communicate. Need to have his scalp sawed in half for surgery. Just very bad:(

    I do have an umbrella insurance--3.5mil.  

    I don't understand why I am responsible for his injury in the manner described above. I know I am responsible for asking him to check the roof and possibly work on it.  We never agreed on the price.  He brought another person who actually went on the roof and fixed it.  He fell before even getting on the roof.  In fact, this friend fixed(fixed) the roof without me knowing what type of damage and the cost of the repair.

    1Reply
  • David P.
    Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes
    4y

    I think the fact he was your tenant makes it worst. If he was some unlicensed roofer that just came over to get a bid might be different story. I wouldn't make a tenant go do anything that might involve injury. 

    5Reply
  • Jackie Cramer
    Rental Property Investor · North Jersey Shore · Member since 2020 · 102 posts · 49 votes
    4y

    Lawyer up immediately. 

    5Reply
  • Matthew Olszak
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    I'd change/limit your name on here asap before google catches this page and your statements/admissions.

    Call an attorney and have them submit any necessary claim to the insurance company. This may go nowhere, the injured person might feel it was their fault and eat it. But a family/friend bird might chirp in their ear about going after you. Or their health insurance provider might subrogate the claim and go after you and your insurer for what they had to pay. I know when I injured my knee at home, my health insurance provider had me fill out paperwork detailing the circumstances of the injury and certify it was not employment related.

    Regardless of the employment situation, someone was injured on your property, so you may be liable to them.

    27Reply
  • Kimnee L.
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 17 votes
    4y

    I appreciate everyone's responses. I cannot change what happened. I am indeed concerned about my liabilities.  At the same time, my heart genuinely goes out to the man and his family.

    6Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y

    I would contact an attorney immediately, but I would also be visiting him in the hospital and attempting to contact family members to see how you could help. At a bare minimum, I suspect he (or his family) will come after you for some medical bills.

    My first call would be to the insurance company, not an attorney. See if insurance will consider covering it. If not, then it will be time to get an attorney and be prepared to negotiate some sort of settlement.

    Contractors that are licensed and insured can be expensive, but they get the job done right and it protects you from situations like this.

    I pray he's OK.

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    8Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    Contractors that are licensed and insured can be expensive, but they get the job done right and it protects you from situations like this.

    Yessir. How many times on this forum have we discussed why you need to use a legitimate Contractor for all work? This is the biggest reason why.

    7Reply
  • Allen L.
    Rental Property Investor · Chicago and mainly invests in KS remotely · Member since 2018 · 360 posts · 314 votes
    4y

    Yes, change your name on here and visit your tenant handyman at the hospital. As a general rule don’t ask the tenant do any work on your property. I have tenants asking for modifications to the properties and I always tell them to pay my maintenance person so the work is done properly. 

    5Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Natalie Kolodij:

    You should call an attorney asap. 

    I don't think an LLC would help here- If that house is worth $100k and he has $500k of medical bills it's very likely that corporate veil can be pierced.


    Maybe in some weak states, (or in some states where the owner does not handle the formalities properly for that state) but I don't think in all.

    Asset protection attorneys specialize in this sort of thing. They Domicile the entity in a strong state. 

    Just a side note: Sometimes Texas owners grieve about not being able to get a leaving renter to pay for back amounts owed via the courts.

    But the Laws of Texas also protect the owners pretty darn well compared to a lot of other states.

    2Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @David P.:

    Thats a bad bad move. Should have known better but too late now. You will definitely get sued so hopefully your liability insurance is high. I would start transferring your assets to a family member if I were you. If his intubated then that might mean he has brain damage and needs a machine to help do the job of the lungs. Did he fell on his head?

    As other have said call your insurance asap and your attorney. DO NOT transfer your assets to other entities. that will have zero affect and look very bad.  Hopefully you have an umbrella policy large enough to cover all your assets. 

    I hope your tenant is ok. 

    7Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    4y

    This is why you need to verify a workers comp policy on anyone before hiring them to do work for you. This is going to be expensive. Pretty likely you'll going to be spending a lot of money here.

    6Reply
  • David Mirza
    Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 54 posts · 29 votes
    4y

    Umbrella insurance does not cover handyman injuries.  At least mine doesn't.

    4Reply
  • Chris Pasternak
    Real Estate Broker · Pueblo, CO · Member since 2013 · 368 posts · 303 votes
    4y

    This is the craziest thread I have seen so far...on so many levels. From "Hey this guy almost died on my property, what's my liability?"  To... "Hey you should go to the hospital and pretend like you care".

    24Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Chris Pasternak:

    This is the craziest thread I have seen so far...on so many levels. From "Hey this guy almost died on my property, what's my liability?"  To... "Hey you should go to the hospital and pretend like you care".

     Craziest? No, it's not crazy at all. Just morally bankrupt.

    But I think it just looks like that on the part of the contributors because some the regular contributors who have written here, especially the contractors, are trying to really hold back because this is a tragic situation and cursing what is obviously a tragic situation all around here won't help at all.

    My fat a** has never gone on a roof not strapped into a safety harness with an anchored safety rope. A lot of roofers feel they don't need a harness for regular residential work -- that's fine, that's their business, they know the risks, and they can deal with their insurance themselves.

    But putting one of my TENANTS on a roof and having something like this happen is not something I want to think about.

    12Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    I feel for you and your situation. Hope the guy heals.

    I am a contractor, luckily pretty afraid of heights. And my family needs me more than I need to repair a roof.

    I would never ever have some rando dude go on a roof for me.

    6Reply
  • Maurice D.
    Coppell, TX · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 310 votes
    4y
    This is sad.  Generally speaking and for future reference, wouldn't a contractor waiver of liability shield the owner or those waivers don't work?  they are supposedly designed for uninsured workers?

    https://www.liabilitywaiver.or...


    3Reply
  • Allen L.
    Rental Property Investor · Chicago and mainly invests in KS remotely · Member since 2018 · 360 posts · 314 votes
    4y

    I wish more people sees this post and prep accordingly. I have a lot of questions after reading this post and reflecting on my own "construction stack". I feel like this is one of an investor's worst outcome. 

    6Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Matt M.:

    I am a contractor, luckily pretty afraid of heights. And my family needs me more than I need to repair a roof.

    I would never ever have some rando dude go on a roof for me.

    I was never all that afraid of heights.......until I fell a couple times.. When you're going down, everything is in slow motion....especially when you're riding the ladder down....

    Now I get weak knees on an 8 ft step.....

    4Reply
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