$3,300 to paint 1,500 sqft? (Ohio)

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$3,300 to paint 1,500 sqft? (Ohio)

Ryan Cleary
Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2019 · 370 posts · 330 votes

Just got a bid presented to me by my property manager from a contractor of $14k for tenant turnover, incoming rent for the unit is $800...  I know the unit well and it's not in bad shape.  Some of the items are totally unnecessary.  They have a bid for painting the walls which they are asking $3,300, on top of that they are asking another $400 to repair walls and remove an led light strip.  Is this the going rate right now?  This will be my first turnover in Ohio.

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Don Gouge
Specialist · Johnson City, TN · Member since 2021 · 139 posts · 146 votes
4y

Instead of worrying about the cost of paint, I would be worrying about my property manager.

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  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    There is no such thing as a "going rate" for a unit turn.  Everything depends on the scope of work.

    For $14K, it is worth your time to get another bid.

    7Reply
  • Jayson Cain
    Lender · Manhattan Beach, CA · Member since 2017 · 423 posts · 268 votes
    4y

    @Ryan Cleary Which market in OH and what's the square footage?

    3Reply
  • Scott Esmail
    Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 162 posts · 125 votes
    4y

    Get your own bid without the property manager involved. Get them to put a lock box and call around and get your own quotes from local contractors, get them to send you there id and give them the lock box codes. Look for ones that have experience in turnovers. You can't spend that kind of money to get $800 per month. Plus lets say in a year the new tenant moves and you have to do more turnover again. Turnover is a killer and the biggest expense take time to shop around get many detailed bids as you can. Ask them to take videos and send to you when they are at the home giving you the quotes. Get them to take video wwith there phones explaining what there going to do in as much details as possible. It's worth the risk and aggravation to do it out of state thru phone with a local contractor then to pay that huge amount. You should try to keep the turnover less then 5k if possible max. 

    9Reply
  • Ryan Cleary
    OP
    Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2019 · 370 posts · 330 votes
    4y

    @Scott Esmail

    That’s a great idea Scott

    0Reply
  • Danielle Jackson
    Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 504 posts · 282 votes
    4y

    Great advice from @Scott Esmail. Out of state is certainly tricky, but for an expense that great its certainly worth the headache. Whatever you do, don't share the bid you received from the property manager with any of the contractors you ask to come in. It does seem high, and could influence their bids. 

    1Reply
  • Ryan Cleary
    OP
    Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2019 · 370 posts · 330 votes
    4y

    @Danielle Jackson

    Thanks Danielle, appreciate the pointers!

    0Reply
  • Allen L.
    Rental Property Investor · Chicago and mainly invests in KS remotely · Member since 2018 · 360 posts · 314 votes
    4y

    Worth getting more bids. If your property manager presents this quote to you, for 14K, then the property is either in need of complete cosmetic turnover (new floors throughout, interior and exterior paint on walls, ceiling, trims, new countertop, cabinets or vanities), or the property manager can't be serious. If my property manager presented a 14K quote knowing the property rents for 800, I would want a new manager, because he clearly doesn't see my bottom line. Your 3.3K quote for paint isn't too bad price-wise, but 14K total seems outrageous so I'm curious what else is needed. The best person to lean on for OOS is your property manager. If they don't have the resources to get competitive quotes or their contractors doesn't seem to understand that it's a $800 rental, then they are not providing you with exclusive value to maintain this business relationship.

    5Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y

    $14k for an $800 apartment is very high. For that price, I could paint it, replace the flooring, and probably replace the entire kitchen. What the hell happened? And why are you only concerned about the paint bid?

    $3,300 for 1500 sq.ft. doesn't seem bad to me. That's about what I pay for a professional company. I use cheaper handymen for my painting and can get it down to around $2,000 - $2,500.

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    8Reply
  • Don Gouge
    Specialist · Johnson City, TN · Member since 2021 · 139 posts · 146 votes
    4y

    Instead of worrying about the cost of paint, I would be worrying about my property manager.

    11Reply
  • Jeremy Nault
    Real Estate Agent · Manchester, NH · Member since 2015 · 160 posts · 148 votes
    4y

    @Ryan Cleary After completing the turnover for a 1000Sqft unit just a few months ago which involved priming and painting the entire unit myself, I would say 3300 isn't too bad in order to avoid the 120+ hours of painting.  Definitely worth getting another quote for the whole project though!  14K for turnover seems high depending on the scope of work.   

    3Reply
  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Ryan Cleary Something is up with your PM. I'd get to the bottom of that before worrying about the turnover. Is this the first turnover you've done through him?

    0Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Cleary:

    Just got a bid presented to me by my property manager from a contractor of $14k for tenant turnover, incoming rent for the unit is $800...  I know the unit well and it's not in bad shape.  Some of the items are totally unnecessary.  They have a bid for painting the walls which they are asking $3,300, on top of that they are asking another $400 to repair walls and remove an led light strip.  Is this the going rate right now?  This will be my first turnover in Ohio.

     $14k would be a huge turn. A lot of it depends on which property management company you are using here in Columbus, Ohio. Some have cheap crews and some use expensive crews.

    I always recommend that you try to work with a PM that will allow you to use your own contractor for turns.

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  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Two issues here for me-

    #1 this is why I won’t invest OOS.

    #2 this is why I won’t invest in low rent areas. You’re quote of $14k could be absolutely legit, but at $800 you’re in the hole for quite a while.

    3Reply
  • Scott M.
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    A lot of people beating up on the PM with zero info.  Your post @Ryan Cleary might as well say I paid $500 for dinner last night for just me, was I ripped off? Meaning, you have provided close to zero information for anyone to provide detailed guidance on.  

    3,700 to patch and paint 1,500 SQFT?  Again, how in the world do we know?  Are the walls currently black or maroon and need a few coats of primer then your wall color?  How many coats?  How many colors?  1, 2, 3?  Does this include doors, cabinets, basement floors and walls or no?  Was a heavy smoker in the unit?  Kitchen covered in grease that needs to be cleaned/treated first?  Of that 3,700 $400 is to repair the walls, okay, how many holes?  Maybe this is high or low but we have no idea based on the info you gave.  Is the LED secured to the walls that they have to damage the wall to get it off etc?

    As for items you do not think are necessary, like what?  And would you rather they tell you about things that you think are total unnecessary so you can make the decision on them or not tell you about things they think need to be done and leave you in the dark?  Can't you simply tell them not to do the items you don't find necessary?

    I really don't get the people saying the cost is high w/o any knowledge of the condition of the place or that your real problem is the PM when again, they have zero context to make that judgement.  

    Might be high, might be spot on and it might be low.  No one here has any idea based on the little info you shared.  

    Never anything wrong with getting bids but go into it with your eyes wide open.  Hiring a contractor for a larger turnover from 1,000 miles away comes with a lot of risks.  Not saying don't do it, just do it with our eyes open.

    Also, talk to your PM.  It doesn't seem like you have much info at this point (or just didn't share it here) and you owe it to yourself and your bank account to get more info from them.  Also, tell them you don't want to do the things you find unnecessary and see what they say.  

    6Reply
  • Marc RiceBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Painting wise hat doesn't seem absurd, most market rates are around $500/room depending on the condition of the walls/trim. I've paid up to $3k for a 3bd/1ba 1250sqft that needed kilz 2 coats, then 2 coats of paint on all trim, walls, ceilings.

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  • Ryan Cleary
    OP
    Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2019 · 370 posts · 330 votes
    4y

    I appreciate everyone’s reply and I admit the original post was vague.

    I have been very happy with this manager, I have a call with them this afternoon to discuss the bid further.  I can tell most of the items are cosmetic and in no need to be fixed right away, especially as I plan on moving there in 2 months to do improvements on this units.  I was more so curious as to if the $3,300 was a reasonable amount for the painting.  Appreciate the help again!

    0Reply
  • Chinmay J.
    Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Cleary:

    Just got a bid presented to me by my property manager from a contractor of $14k for tenant turnover, incoming rent for the unit is $800...  I know the unit well and it's not in bad shape.  Some of the items are totally unnecessary.  They have a bid for painting the walls which they are asking $3,300, on top of that they are asking another $400 to repair walls and remove an led light strip.  Is this the going rate right now?  This will be my first turnover in Ohio.

    This is how the PMs make money. This is why long distance investing is so risky if you have a shady PM. Like others have suggested, make some phone calls and get your own guy to go in and give you a bid. 

    Here is how most PMs play the game. If you get a bid for say $10000 then the PM might say, you are on your own buddy for this turnover. He can't vouch for this guy because he didn't find him. He is not his guy. Then you are left managing your tenant turnover on your own from NY, which can be difficult.  Remember PM is not really managing your property. He is running his own business. 

    2Reply
  • Allen L.
    Rental Property Investor · Chicago and mainly invests in KS remotely · Member since 2018 · 360 posts · 314 votes
    4y

    @Ryan Cleary if you can provide us with the full quote, broken down, we can take a look at the individual costs.

    2Reply
  • Tony Corbiere
    Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 18 votes
    4y

    @Ryan Cleary I am a painting and restoration contractor in San Antonio, and I have to say that a $14k cost to do a tenant turnover is grossly over budget.

    Consider this: the average lesser inhabits the property for 2.5 years. The gross income earned on a $1500sqft rental during that period of time could be between $48,000 to $57,000 with rent posted at $1600 or $1900 respectively. A turnover cost of $14,000 would then cost you upward of 24% of rent earned from this guest; effectively robbing you of a quarter from every dollar you earned.

    If the property has already been modernized and renovated prior to leasing, the turnover should only require paint/flooring and minor repairs. Paint. If you're painting the entire interior with trim and doors, it should cost <$4k. Carpet replacement and tile cleaning should cost less than $3k for a maximum total turnover cost of $7,000. This is half of what your contractor has quoted.

    Unless your contractor is doing more than flooring/paint, it shouldn't cost you more than $7,000.

    I would advise you to consider the possibility that your PM is receiving a kickback from the contractor or the PM is otherwise upcharging you to skim.

    1Reply
  • Adam Martin
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    I see us all focusing on the price and many of us are right that it is about the condition of paint and scope of work that lets us know if you are being cheated so I won't beat that horse.  You say most of these items are cosmetic so it sounds like this is mostly to renovate the house so this may be a good move or could be way out of line.  My biggest question is once you spend all this money how much more do they feel you will be able to get in increased rent to cover these expenses.  If it isn't significant I can't imagine spending that kind of money all at once and would most likely pick a few items that get the most band for your buck.  I do my own painting and actually enjoy it, so my mind was blown when the figure of over 3k came up and others were saying this may seem about right.  This is under $250 in materials you are paying for on a high end for the paint and I could knock it out in a couple days.   

    0Reply
  • David Shaw
    Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 12 votes
    4y

    I agree with some others, you need to be VERY worried about your property management. They are either taking money on the side from their contractors, or too incompetent to know how much it should cost. Either way find yourself a better property manager. 

    0Reply
  • Jeremy Komer
    Rental Property Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 84 posts · 81 votes
    4y

    @Ryan Cleary

    For 14k I'd assume the place is completely trashed.

    Shop around, my guess is you can find this stuff allot cheaper outside your PM.

    0Reply
  • Jerry Lucker
    Flipper/Rehabber · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 333 posts · 459 votes
    4y

    I rehab properties in an area that's very pricey. I don't know how bad the walls are damaged but the bid for paint is $1300.00 too much compared to what I pay.

    1Reply
  • Nick Rutkowski
    Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    @Ryan Cleary

    I’ll charge 3-5/sq ft for residential painting. Rentals and class C rentals I’ll charge 2-3/ sq ft. You’re looking for a quick, easy, affordable job not Michael Angelo.

    2Reply
  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Nick Rutkowski 2-3 per square foot including trim and ceilings?

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