Personal Safety While Being a Landlord
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
12yRegardless of being an investor or not in my opinion everyone should go through personal protection training on almost a daily basis or at least a few times a week.
It's not like the movies where you have time to not get hurt or killed. It's over in less than a minute in most cases. The attackers generally have no remorse and is pre-meditated.
Unlike many that talk theory I have been attacked in the past when I was younger. I have been training for decades now. The only thought is taking them out and you get used to the pain through training. Having said that the police have what is called a "ladder of force" where for instance if you overdid things you could get into trouble. Most things are situational. If you hear a noise you do not go to the noise. Most times getting weapons training is key because cowards will try to take a natural advantage than fight toe to toe.
66 Replies
- 12yDeborah BurianPro MemberRental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 412 votes
Fascinating conversation. It would be unusual for me to show a house by myself. Almost always an Open House, always in daylight, and almost always with my husband... When alone, I take my dog.
I never invite conflict with a tenant... I post the door and send certified mail. If eviction notice needed, pay sheriff to deliver. Sheriff does lockout and clears the house. Rents go to PO Box but we have an unusual last name & wouldn't be hard to find.
At the new place, though a wee bit sketchy, the tenants all look out for each other and for me..
That said, it can be a big scary world and I need to look into protection training and whatever non-lethal defense (mace etc) Oklahoma allows. We are open carry but I'm not going there.
A landlord was killed here a year or two ago, an extension of an existing problem and he was set up by the assailant, with whom, I believe, he was acquainted.
- 12yAngie W.Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votesOP
In the past my husband has always been the bouncer. He alerts the next door neighbor as to what he is doing and walks up to the door and posts the notice.
@Deborah Burian that is a scary story about the LL being killed. I don't know if I can hire a sheriff here to serve notice - I've never heard of anyone doing it. I know that they will do a set out - which basically means they are there while you clear out the house and set it out to the curb - they will only set people out to the curb, not their stuff.
As for defense, I will have to look into pepper spray or mace. I am not against guns for people who are comfortable with and skilled at using them, but I have always been afraid that someone would get it away from me and hurt me with it. I also like the idea of a big flashlight.
@Rob K. my dad taught me a long time ago the best defense against a man. First the groin, if you can't get that, the eyes, and if possible nail them square in the nose as hard as possible.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
One more thing, if you're driving around, looking for vacant houses and you know they're in a sketchy neighborhood - go early in the morning. The trouble makers are still sleeping and it's peaceful and quiet.
- 12yChris K.Pro MemberInvestor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
Originally posted by Kim Knox:
ASk the stranger for their photo id when they arrive. Take a photo of their ID when you are still OUTSIDE and text it to someone(husband, wife, office, mom, whoever). Call in their license plate number in front of them, and describe the make and color of the vehicle. Do this in FRONT of the person, while still outside. If they object or tell you they don't have their drivers license, leave.So I'm curious would you in turn allow them to photograph your drivers licence and text it to whomever?
- Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes12y
I just have to say that pepper spray, mace, and tasers are not an effective defense. Tasers are a huge liability, as they can kill someone with a heart condition. If someone is on drugs, they might not work at all. For a close attack, your fists, elbows, knees, and feet will be your best defense. A gun or knife would be next best. Pepper spray is usually a pipe dream.
It has been mentioned, but instead of working out in a boring gym, take a self defense class. You will not only get in shape, but you will learn how to defend yourself at the same time.
- 12yAngie W.Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votesOP
@Rob K. you have a point about defense.
I think I will check into self defense classes and take my teen daughter along with me. She will be headed off to college soon and we both would benefit from it.
Perhaps a weapon of any kind - like a screwdriver, or large flashlight as someone mentioned earlier would serve you better than any type of spray.
- Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2013 · 58 posts · 9 votes12yCrazy stories. My day job is Law Enforcement, so I'm pretty much armed all the time and have a cache of weaponry and know how to use them. My tenants know this and I'm sure this is a big reasons I don't have many problems. Other than that my renters rock. I encourage everyone who can legally carry a firearm to do so. If you can't carry a gun, then pepper spray or civilian tasers are fine. I'm a big believer of martial arts. Doesn't matter what style. Also try to stay away from war zones. I work in a area I'm SoCal with a lot of section 8 rentals and it's a mess.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes12y
Angie pepper spray and mace etc. in some cases the attacker has sued and won for permanent eye damage.
Another thing is when you use these items there are outside influences such as wind etc. where some of the spray can actually blow into your eyes!
I am NOT a big fan of someone buying pepper spray, knives, guns etc. without constant practice. Most I have seen buy these things and then say "okay I have this so I will be safe now". That's the farthest thing from the truth. What's more dangerous than not having an external weapon??
Having an external weapon that you are rusty with and barely know how to use but your unarmed attacker sure does and they then proceed to use it against you.
Close quarters a knife is much more damaging and is easier to conceal when attacking. A gun is one directional. You have to be ready to live and they will die is the mentality you have to take. The best thing is to really remove yourself from as many situations as possible. The mentality that only bad things happen in bad areas is false as well. Do your odds increase in bad areas of something going wrong? They sure do but if you take not a paranoid awareness but a heightened awareness at all times you will be much better off. I don't do stereotypes either. I am ready for anyone regardless of age or gender.
I really wish more women would get more training because they sorely need it. The groin shot is actually dangerous because the attacker can take you to the ground. Close enough the eyes really are some of the best targets. The groin can be a great strike if done correctly. There is one strike where you strike with a sword hand and then use a tiger claw and rip back pulling outward and back. The knee or kick to the groin can be good you do not want to go to the ground especially for a women as the strength and weight of a man can wear you out trying to get up.
We do take downs and ground fighting from stand up and I am 5 foot 9 and 206 pounds and I am going against guys 6 foot 4 and 290 and let me tell you I am strong but even with proper technique they are a load to get off of me before I can do the stand up.
- 12yDawn AnastasiPro MemberRental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
While advocating all this distrust and physical violence, remember that the majority of people in this world are GOOD people.
- Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
Originally posted by Joel Owens:
Angie pepper spray and mace etc. in some cases the attacker has sued and won for permanent eye damage.
This is why you need a friend who owns a shovel and doesn't ask questions. ;)
- Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes12y
Originally posted by Aaron Mazzrillo:
Originally posted by Joel Owens:
Angie pepper spray and mace etc. in some cases the attacker has sued and won for permanent eye damage.
This is why you need a friend who owns a shovel and doesn't ask questions. ;)
Between you and @Rob K. I never have to worry about getting bored on here!!!
P.S. I have a shovel and the only questions I'll ask are about marketing I promise!
- 12ySteven Hamilton IIPro MemberAccountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by Andrew Fidler:
Concealed carry permit...carry anytime I'm in the neighborhood...upgrade from .380 to 9mm if I get a bad vibe (or if I have to go secure a tenants unit after a break in the middle of the night which happened a couple of years ago)...and keep a class IIa kevlar vest in the safe after I had to repossess my second vehicle. (Decided that seller-financing vehicles was no-longer my line of business, sold my last this Summer)
Conclusion- I am prepared, calm and responsible, but I intend to return home to my family at the end of every day without question. I own properties in some pretty questionable neighborhoods, great profit but I choose to carry. People get assaulted and shot in the neighborhood occasionally, but this happens at 2am and alcohol is normally involved.
Still, I had a shooting in 2010 at 2:30pm on a Thursday...my roofing contractor had an ex-wife's boyfriend jump him with seven buddies and chase him to my jobsite. Three warning shots convinced the group to quit gang-banging and split. Toledo police were very cool and the boyfriend went away for 180 days for being an idiot. Conclusion- without a firearm that day I would have been unable to intervene...the police arrived 15 minutes after shots were fired and the contractor had a concussion and broken bones from being beaten 30 seconds.
I can't argue at all. But for me its actually a full size 1911.@Aaron Mazzrillo , Does that steel door have a steel frame? Most states allow a business owner to carry on their property/business location. It is something to look up and do your due diligence on.
@Bill S,
Your life insurance doesn't replace you to your wife and kids. 99% of the time the gun never needs to be fired. I know a guy that keeps one unloaded on him. He's had to brandish it twice. No issue after that.
Conceal carry isn't what is important. KNOWLEDGE and situational awareness are what are important.
I will tell you that I'm sure you had nothing to worry about. IF someone had happened to you none of them would have wanted the flack.
@John Knappmann ,
The key is the time is does come up.... Be prepared. I'd rather go to my grave never needing my firearm than to die wishing I had it.
@Matthew Paul ,
Amen judged by 12.
Some advice one to read and another to implement.
This is scary to think about: Knockout
Get a Google Voice number as you won't have to give out your personal phone number.
- 12ySteven Hamilton IIPro MemberAccountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by Matt Devincenzo:
Originally posted by Aaron Mazzrillo:
Originally posted by Joel Owens:
Angie pepper spray and mace etc. in some cases the attacker has sued and won for permanent eye damage.
This is why you need a friend who owns a shovel and doesn't ask questions. ;)
Between you and @Rob K. I never have to worry about getting bored on here!!!
P.S. I have a shovel and the only questions I'll ask are about marketing I promise!
I love this forum. Great laughs.
- Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes12y
I guess I feel pretty lucky, I have not had a situation where I have felt unsafe in over a dozen years. My day job is now primarily prosecuting people. I have put many folks in prison, some for life, luckily no death penalty cases so far. I currently live in a town of under 3500 folks. I have to run for office every 4 years. Practically every one knows me, and with my hat they can see me coming for blocks away. Every once in awhile I deal with someone who brings the hair up on the back of your neck, usually they are in cuffs and escorted by jailors.
Everyone can find where I live, my name and address are in the phone book. We have no gangs, but every place has nuts. The ones who are not in good mental condition are the dangerous ones.
I carry even though I suspect I will never need to use a gun, I just feel better with one. There is usually a backup one close also. I feel it is my obligation to be able to protect my family or even myself as I am their primary source of support.
My father taught me to escort a woman to her car if it is dark, and see they have doors locked if you must leave before they do.
I do occasionally get a person who threatens me, but it is pretty rare, the last one was a loudmouthed 16 year old who had threatened to kill several folks and tried the same on me when I got him sent to a boys school, he was at least 4 or 5 inches taller than me and 60 pounds heavier, I told him there were 2 things stopping him fear and gravity, which one was it? He kept being mouthy until the cops showed up to get him, after they had a hold of him he started lunging at me like he wanted to get away from them. I had no doubt if I had shown fear or backed down he would have been much more aggressive.
I know or have information about many of the tenants I show houses to. I have never been concerned for my safety in showing a house. I try to treat everyone with respect and dignity even if it is unpleasant.
I have never been threatened by a person I have put in jail, most understand they earned it. There have been threats by relatives but they are rare and I have not had one in over a dozen years.
I think the information given out here is wonderful, the only possible thing I would add is that awareness of your environment is very important. I taught my daughter how and where to hit, how to break holds, and most importantly that every object around you can be a weapon, be it hairspray, your car keys, a drinking glass, etc. If they have a hold of you and you can grab one of their fingers with your hand you jerk it backwards as hard and as fast as you can, it will usually break, if they don't let go then break the rest. Do not show fear, and think, your mind and clear thinking can be very important.
Never ever get in the car even if they have a gun or knife. If they are willing to shoot you now they absolutely will shoot you later.
Even people you never think would harm you may be very different if using alcohol or drugs. I obviously avoid most bars because folks who would be civil to me if sober might not be if drunk.
Finally trust your instincts for bad feelings, if you feel any level of discomfort, get out of the situation immediately. Do not trust your instincts if you think it is safe, be sure.
- 12yAngie W.Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votesOP
You bring up some good points @Jerry W.
I'm really glad to see the responses here. I have seen some good advice on how to be proactive rather than reactive.
@Dawn Anastasi You are right most people are good people. However, I didn't see anyone here advocating violence unless it was in fun. I do feel though that it is when you let your guard down you become more vulnerable. You should always be aware of your surroundings, not only when dealing with property, but always. For the most part we are all dealing with strangers, and in the day of the internet (where you may advertise online) you never know who you are dealing with or where they may be from.
As it has been mentioned earlier, most people don't think it can happen to them - until it does. I brought up this topic to raise awareness not to instill fear and distrust in people. I have only felt uneasy once, after my husband served an eviction notice that had to include my home address, at a rental where the occupant (not our tenant, but leftover girlfriend) was mentally unstable and abusing prescription drugs.She also had moved in a new boyfriend that had just been release from prison.
Although I am not terrified to go show our property or to deal with our tenants, I am cautious and think about my personal safety and that of my family. Money and things can be replaced, people can't. I'd rather be cautious than dead.
- Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes12y
This is a little off topic, but still a personal safety issue. Two of our vehicles were set up from the factory where the doors unlocked as soon as you put the shifter into park. (These are both GM vehicles, so it may be different with other companies). It can be changed to where the doors unlock when the engine is turned off or when the key is removed from the ignition. I changed them to unlock when the key is removed. You might pull up to a house or parking spot where there are sketchy people hanging around, put the car in park, the doors unlock, and they jump in. It's an easy fix and I would recommend it. Some border patrol agents were killed when they put there bulletproof Tahoe in park, the doors unlocked, and the bad guys opened a door and shot them all.
- 12yDeborah BurianPro MemberRental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 412 votes
I had a rough career in some respects although at the time I didn't think it was and as a result have found myself in acutely dangerous situations a few times, have been the subject of personal threats many times and was receiving death threats once... Who knew healthcare could be so much fun :-).
In all instances, as with my recent squatters, I seem to have a bias for action and just keep moving forward, sometimes literally. By which I mean I'm acting, not thinking or looking for help. Any kind of consistent defense education will help ensure that the actions are the most useful ones available.
- Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes12y
I usually have a machete hanging on my belt and put an eye patch over my left eye when I go see or show a property.
When I introduce myself I say "hi I am Sam but my friends call me the governor".
Zero problem.
- Real Estate Broker · Jacksonville, OR · Member since 2009 · 199 posts · 155 votes12y
Originally posted by Chris K.:
Originally posted by Kim Knox:
ASk the stranger for their photo id when they arrive. Take a photo of their ID when you are still OUTSIDE and text it to someone(husband, wife, office, mom, whoever). Call in their license plate number in front of them, and describe the make and color of the vehicle. Do this in FRONT of the person, while still outside. If they object or tell you they don't have their drivers license, leave.So I'm curious would you in turn allow them to photograph your drivers licence and text it to whomever?
Good question Chris, I have never been asked. It is standard practice when meeting an an office to obtain a copy of a drivers license, so I have never thought twice about it.
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes12y
Great reading. I do things a little different! I hire an agent to show the rental. I keep a stack of sympathy cards handy in case she gets whacked. If that happens, there are a lot more agents seeking work:)
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes12y
I was probably only 8 years old when I started shooting and hunting. Been doing those things ever since. But I didn't start carrying until about a year after I got into real estate.
I bought a little house that had 5 acres with it - way out in the boonies. I cut up the land into tracts. One day I went and met with a neighbor to try to sell him some of the land and/or the house. While I was there in his driveway, somebody (a buddy of his I think) pulled up and stopped behind me - blocking me in. This guy was almost falling down drunk and could have done anything - and I was blocked in. I started carrying after that. And I later found out that the guy (the neighbor) that I was negotiating with was a meth cooker.
- Member since 2011 · 798 posts · 216 votes12y
Originally posted by Michaela Graham:
I really think that having a dog with you is a big deterrent. They're unpredictable. They won't stop when someone points a gun at them. Someone has to choose who to shoot first. IF they shoot me my dog will be loose and mad. If they shoot the dog first, I'll be loose and mad.
A dog is no deterent to a thug with a gun. They'll wipe out the dog too.
- Member since 2011 · 798 posts · 216 votes12y
I don't invest in war zones. It's just not worth it to me.
Screen them a little before they even get the property address. I look for evictions, assaults. If I don't like the tone of their e-mail (pushy, just "off), I don't bother with them. I look for at least some semblance of grammar in their e-mail- that shows they're educated and just might have a job that's not being a gansta.
Don't show the place too late at night.
Don't wear anything flashy - jewelry, car, clothes, whatever. Look professional, but blend in.
I find it funny that people are like "my husband is there" or "my husband knows where I am." How is the average husband (or wife, for that matter) going to defend you against a hardened thug? Oh, right, he's not.
It's good when people know when to expect you home, but there's only so much good that can do. Your spouse might assume you went out to the store after.
Showing a property with two of you present is a start, but it's not foolproof either. A street thug could easily take the two of you.
What is it exactly that these prospective tenants are stealing? Your wallet, car, the current tenant's belonings? Your stuff can be replaced, your face can't.
I also find it funny that people think they can defend themselves against anything. Unless you're practicing fighting every day, that's not going to happen. Remember that someone who attacks you is not sane. They're some psycho that's very likely on drugs or a delinquent who has been in frequent fights. Do you really think you can wrestle some hardened, muscle macho thug to the floor? Remember, he's got nothing to lose. You do. He doesn't care what happens to you... his rap sheet probably has seen it all. It's good to have some self-defense classes, but it's naive to think that you can really defeat anyone.
GTF out of there. Think of situations that could happen and a way to escape. Escaping is your out.
Don't get in yelling matches with tenants. When they start to act "off" or shaky mad, leave. You can have your lawyer evict them later.
Don't serve or send eviction notices yourself. Leave that up to your lawyer.
If I could avoid giving my last name or address to my tenants and act "only" as property manager, I would do it.
The odds of your tenants attacking you is slim. Keep that in mind, but be cautious and prepared. GTF out of there if feeling in any danger at all.
Flight, not fight... unless fighting is the only option to save your life and there's no escape route to save you. Flight is the best way to protect your life.
My real estate office photocopies the IDs of anyone who goes to see a property with you and keeps it on file. I have to wonder how much good that really does. What if there's a fake ID? A thug who doesn't care about another charge? Even so, I think the sign "Copy of ID required to show any property" in their office at least makes people think twice before planning to attack a realtor. I suppose you could do the same if you have an office.
I wouldn't "call it in" in front of them saying "you'll hear from me at 11:45" and give a vehicle description/license plate.... that would creep me out if I was a tenant. The license plate/car is really excessive and might not help you. It could be a stolen car, their friend's car, whatever. And it really sounds creepy if you're a qualified tenant. And that still gives the perp 15 minutes to attack you and leave, especially if they refuse to show you their ID. If you don't have an office where you meet the tenant first, this method of showing ID doesn't work as well.
The fake phone call from your "partner" also showing the property in a few minutes can help a little, but again, attacks take seconds to minutes-- not 15 minutes when your fake partner will be here. You also don't want to scare the tenant either.
Remember, attacks take seconds to minutes. Copies of ID and fake partners coming to show the property soon aren't going to necessarily save you.
Take the 5 minutes it takes to look up their court records and Google their name. If they have records for assault/etc. don't give them the property address.
Pepper spray won't save you. Pepper spray often fails and the reach is short. You want to get the &&&& out of the situation, not stay within a few feet of an attacker to spray him. A tazer is also a bad defense. It's temporary, then what? And it can be fatal to someone with a heart condition like Rob said. And, gun beats pepper spray or tazer.
If you reply to prospective tenants only by e-mail and you're a female, try shortening your name to sound more gender neutral. Joann could be Jo. Males, of course, can get attacked too, but some people still stereotype even business transactions based on gender. If on the phone with them, you could say something like "Either Stan or I will meet you at the property at 7 to show it." Then they don't know if they'll have a girl or guy coming. Still, guys get attacked too.
The odds of getting attacked as a landlord are slim. Use your instinct, court records and application screening, GTF out of the situation, and avoid in-person confrontation with unstable tenants. Use some street smarts and common sense, but don't assume you can win against a hardened street thug. And I would avoid true war zones. If in a war zone, I would hire a property manager.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
Frankly, I'm not willing to go through life scared of everything and expecting every person to be a thug. That would be kind of a sad way to live in my book.
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.