Personal Safety While Being a Landlord
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Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
12yRegardless of being an investor or not in my opinion everyone should go through personal protection training on almost a daily basis or at least a few times a week.
It's not like the movies where you have time to not get hurt or killed. It's over in less than a minute in most cases. The attackers generally have no remorse and is pre-meditated.
Unlike many that talk theory I have been attacked in the past when I was younger. I have been training for decades now. The only thought is taking them out and you get used to the pain through training. Having said that the police have what is called a "ladder of force" where for instance if you overdid things you could get into trouble. Most things are situational. If you hear a noise you do not go to the noise. Most times getting weapons training is key because cowards will try to take a natural advantage than fight toe to toe.
66 Replies
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
I think it's a personal decision.
I am investing in an area that many other investors call a 'war zone'. I lived in one of my houses for 1.5 years. All my tenants knew where I lived and would show houses by myself. I would walk all over the neighborhood with my dog next to me. I've never had anything happen, except for getting into a shouting match with a non-paying tenant, when I found her with the fridge on the front porch, trying to sell it. I was glad that I had my dog, but she sort of forced a confrontation and my dog started growling at her and she stepped back.
I have to say in those moments I don't get afraid, but angry. Not the best thing, but I think the other person can tell and they usually back off when they see that intimidation doesn't work with me.
But I agree, I've heard of situations of realtor being attacked or other things. But I also think that there's a certain energy that surrounds you and that others can feel and will react to
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes12y
Regardless of being an investor or not in my opinion everyone should go through personal protection training on almost a daily basis or at least a few times a week.
It's not like the movies where you have time to not get hurt or killed. It's over in less than a minute in most cases. The attackers generally have no remorse and is pre-meditated.
Unlike many that talk theory I have been attacked in the past when I was younger. I have been training for decades now. The only thought is taking them out and you get used to the pain through training. Having said that the police have what is called a "ladder of force" where for instance if you overdid things you could get into trouble. Most things are situational. If you hear a noise you do not go to the noise. Most times getting weapons training is key because cowards will try to take a natural advantage than fight toe to toe.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes12y
All I can say is you will look at things very differently when you have survived an actual attack versus talking theory.
Yes you can give off an energy that you will be a hard target to engage but that does not mean someone will not still come after you even if you do all things right. That is why training is important. People are really fooling themselves if they think they will go through life and never have to face some of these things.
The money, fame, whatever doesn't matter if you are no longer on this planet.
- Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 228 posts · 30 votes12y
@Angie W. This is a great topic that not many may not think about. When we show a house, we let the tenant look inside while we wait near the door or outside. This way, they don't feel like they are being followed and can roam the house as they please. Plus, if something happens, I can quickly leave.
Also, being in Texas, we conceal carry as a precaution. Some maybe will be uncomfortable with this idea but we rather have the option then none. Or maybe carry mace instead.
We use a business address so they can't easily track our personal home and always try to bring someone with me when we serve eviction notices (only had to do it once thus far and hope to never do it again).
We collect all of our rent electronically so we never have to carry large amount of money around.
What are some ideas you use to keep yourself and family safe? Would you mind sharing what it was that sparked this thought?
- 12yAndrew FidlerBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
Concealed carry permit...carry anytime I'm in the neighborhood...upgrade from .380 to 9mm if I get a bad vibe (or if I have to go secure a tenants unit after a break in the middle of the night which happened a couple of years ago)...and keep a class IIa kevlar vest in the safe after I had to repossess my second vehicle. (Decided that seller-financing vehicles was no-longer my line of business, sold my last this Summer)
Conclusion- I am prepared, calm and responsible, but I intend to return home to my family at the end of every day without question.
I own properties in some pretty questionable neighborhoods, great profit but I choose to carry. People get assaulted and shot in the neighborhood occasionally, but this happens at 2am and alcohol is normally involved.
Still, I had a shooting in 2010 at 2:30pm on a Thursday...my roofing contractor had an ex-wife's boyfriend jump him with seven buddies and chase him to my jobsite. Three warning shots convinced the group to quit gang-banging and split. Toledo police were very cool and the boyfriend went away for 180 days for being an idiot. Conclusion- without a firearm that day I would have been unable to intervene...the police arrived 15 minutes after shots were fired and the contractor had a concussion and broken bones from being beaten 30 seconds.
- Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
I don't have an office and I won't ever let a tenant come to my house, but I still have a metal security door on the front and 6' tall fencing on both sides! They all direct deposit their rent at the bank. Notice of service is to my attorney's office.
CA is way to difficult to get a CCW permit. I'd probably carry if it were possible, but I don't show houses so it really isn't a concern. I wouldn't suggest carrying unless you are trained in hand gun use. And I don't mean you took some pot shots at the local range. I spent 6 years in the military and 4 of them I was involved with carrying a hand gun during certain evolutions. If you are considering carrying, get some specialized training.
I take martial arts training several times a week. In 10 years, I've only had 1 contractor state that he wanted to box me on the front lawn. I really didn't like that guy and I was nearby so I told him I'd be right over. He was gone by the time I got there. Probably a stupid thing to do, but I never claimed to be a genius! I recently had a tenant run his mouth over the phone. When I went out to do the final walk-thru, he never showed up. Not that I was looking for action. I preferred that he wasn't around.
My biggest concern isn't with those people though. It is with the transients I come across when looking at property. I don't go out to see many houses, but I've had several occasions when I entered a vacant house and found squatters inside. Transients, in general, have nothing to lose, and their instability is what concerns me, but I haven't had any issues with any thus far. They either bail out the windows, back door, or leave quietly after gathering their few belongings.
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes12y
I'm usually carrying and I also often have a large mag-lite in my hand as well. I also use a property manager for most of my properties, and I intentionally choose to drive a bland, basic car that makes me look poor (which I am anyway).
- Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes12y
My primary defense. Screen carefully. To go to a showing you must pass my phone screening. To rent from me you must pass my background check. My properties are not in war zones. Most are in the better parts of town. I don't try to conceal my id or where I live. Probably should work harder at that. Never occurred to me when I started out and now it's even harder. Never know what's inside a contractor or tenant's head so can't be too safe. I do have a code word with my wife. If I get in a situation where I am threatened. I tell them I must call my wife or she will call the police. She hears the code word and calls 911. It is such that whoever is listening to the conversation will never know they have been ratted out.
I was raised around guns, use and own guns. I don't carry. Seems like the downside risk is greater (accident) than the upside risk (protect my own life). I have lots of life insurance.
- Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes12y
At this point, I only invest in houses that I am comfortable with the area. IE single white women by herself and go after hours and at night. :)
- REALTOR® · Bastrop, TX · Member since 2013 · 324 posts · 191 votes12yWell I've been beat by several in regards to recommending concealed carry for those who's states allow it. In addition to using proper tactics to help keep yourself safe (pre-screen, letting people walk ahead of you, staying in particular neighborhoods, etc.), I would also recommend carrying a weapon of some type with you; large flashlight, mace, knife, something. Unfortunately, we no longer live in a world where people appreciate one another's life's or safety and people have been setup many times. It is probably because of my many years in public safety but I'm going home everyday; even if that means I have to hurt someone else to do it (if they choose to engage me in that manner). Many people will argue that the chances are small of you getting hurt, but that's usually the same thought someone who's been robbed, raped, attacked, or the victim of any other violent crime thought before it happened. If you refuse to carry a weapon and learn how to use it, ALWAYS take a friend, ALWAYS let someone know when you're meeting someone and that persons verified contact info and how long is should take, and ALWAYS know where your exits are and don't let anyone in between you and the exit.
- Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes12y
I always tell my husband or a friend exactly where I am meeting someone, with information about who I am meeting. I also always make sure I am holding my phone at all times and have the exit in sight. Great ideas above...especially about the code word!
- Involved In Real Estate · My City, NJ · Member since 2013 · 181 posts · 81 votes12y
Your safety and that of your family & home comes first.
While I have not been attacked, it has come close, I had psychos screaming in my face with all the gestures, etc... I've been threatened more than I care to remember. Here in NJ I can't legally carry any kind of weapon, not even pepper spray. Inherited tenants who don't get the idea of following the rules & especially rule #1 (pay your rent) have been the problem ones.
For the last year and a half I've been the manager, not the owner for newly acquired props, deeded in my business name. So now I'm just one of the agents that handle that property, just another working stiff. Even for older props now, my management company will handle all, I'll just be the agent there, too at turnovers.
In the past all my props were/are in my name and address, not a good idea. With state licenses it's pretty easy to find me, so better to not be known as the owner.
I am safety conscious, my personal home has always been a fortress, between the exterior lit up all night like a bank, alarm always in use, camera system all over & me armed inside. My neighbor said he thought Tony Soprano moved in.
I have carried pepper spray when I knew there was a hairy situation, even though illegal.
As far as dealing with tenants, screen for the best so you don't have to deal with deadbeats. Even good tenants can go bad, or a psycho boyfriend or brother could move in, there are never any guarantees.
I just looked at another prop to buy today, ugh...another psycho / hoarder in one of the units, I can sure can pickem...
My work van that I show up in is an old beater with a loud exhaust, sweatpants, stained t shirt, etc... I never show up in a new vehicle looking good, that would just instill envy & jealousy into a lot of tenants.
Showings, you can wait outside if you don't feel comfortable with the people who show up. Stay on the phone with someone who knows where you are while showing if you can't bring back up with you.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
I sometimes wondered, if I was being protected in some way.
One day I walked by a house that was on the way to one of my other houses and the guy there was outside and asked me if I wanted to sell my antique stove, that I had on the front porch as planter, because his mother loves it. I told him respectfully that I wasn't willing to part with it, but that maybe I need to bring it inside, if people are noticing it. He told me not to worry about it and that he was watching my house from there and nobody would take it.
I found out later that he was some bigwig in one of the gangs there.
I guess I'm naive, but I always felt that having my dog was enough. And I say good morning to everyone I meet on the way. Frankly, being blonde and white in a 99% black neighborhood made me stick out and there was no hiding. My car is a red convertible, which also sticks out. And people talk. Everyone knew who I was.
I really think that having a dog with you is a big deterrent. They're unpredictable. They won't stop when someone points a gun at them. Someone has to choose who to shoot first. IF they shoot me my dog will be loose and mad. If they shoot the dog first, I'll be loose and mad.
- 12yAngie W.Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votesOP
Wow what great responses!
@Cuong Le I have become good friends with the older couple next door to my rental. Whenever possible I let them know when I am there to show the house and many times I come from their house when the people arrive. In addition, my husband always knows when I am showing a house. While they are there, I tell them to go inside and have a look around while I wait outside, if I do go inside I stay close by one of the doors. I know the area well (I lived there for 19 years, and my mom even longer than that) so for the most part I know the type of people I am dealing with. However, it is the people I get from online advertising that I sometimes become concerned about. I dress the same as they do (t-shirt/sweatshirt & jeans) and park my car in front of the neighbors. It's not a war zone area, but maybe a few steps above that now.
I normally don't feel afraid when showing the house, but I do try to show some common sense. I have never shot a gun in my life (even though we own several) so I probably wouldn't be a good candidate for CCW right now.
- Retired Landlord/Author · Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes12y
Very good topic!
My husband carried a gun his entire landlording career. He always wanted me to carry one too, but I wouldn't. Even though I enjoyed target practice and was considered a "Marksman" I never wanted to carry one. Instead I caved in and said, Okay, I won't carry a gun but I'll buy some mace.
It just so happens the day I received my mace sprayer in the mail, we were showing a unit in our 4 unit apartment building. It just so happens that the lady upstairs didn't like me sending her all those Quit notices for non-payment of rent every month, so she came downstairs to give me a piece of her mind.
I don't believe in arguing with my tenants, I believe in dealing with facts, and nothing but the facts! She insisted that she always paid her rent on time and therefore didn't deserve a 7 Day Notice to Quit. I tried to explain to her that her rent was due on the 1st of each and every month and not on the 9th of the month. She didn't care. To her, as long as she paid her rent in a rental month, she paid her rent on time.
Trying some more to educate her on the system, she started to come towards me her long fingernails curled and ready to claw my eyes out. I reached in my coat pocket (feeling quite secure now that I had my mace can) and warned her to step back , that I had mace and would mace her if she came closer. She came at me anyway. I warned her again, to step back, but she continued to still come towards me, and it was then, when we were almost nose to nose, that I pulled from my pocket the can of mace, and pointed it at her, to only find out that was upside down and pointed AT ME!!!!! LOL
I laughed so hard, that she didn't know what was happening, and I laughed and laughed and laughed, and so startled, she left. I guess that's what they did in the cowboy and indian dasy. Act crazy and they'll leave you alone. Well so much for Mace!
Then one day, doing an open house, two big guys come in. I'm alone, my husband is in the backyard. One guy closes the back door and the other guy closes the front door and come at me. (Open houses mean application fees, which means money). Man I looked fast and furious for something that I could use as a weapon, but there was nothing but my cell phone, even though within reach, didn't give me much time to pick it up and call anyone so I knew that I was doomed!
Just as they were upon me, people started coming in, and the two buys quickly bolted out of the house and down the street.
Driving home I told my husband that I too was going to carry, I did ever since.
You just can't take things for granted. You can hope nothing happens to you, if you are a Realtor or a Landlord showing a house. Whether it be in a War Zone Area or on Hollywood Square, there is always a crazy person ready to rob you, kill you, and take your money. It's best to be safe than sorry. And there comes a time to not be so niave to think, "It won't happen to me"
Nancy Neville
- Property Manager · Big Bear Lake, CA · Member since 2013 · 585 posts · 330 votes12y
I always either take my husband with me or make sure he knows where I am and the contact info I have on the people I'm showing the place to.
I also try to stay outside, or just inside the front door. If I really need to go in and talk about something, I carry pepper spray with me.
I really like the idea of a code word and will start doing that immediately.
As far as eviction notices, I always call my tenants ahead of time to talk about their late rent. I let them know that I will be out to post the notice, so they are expecting me. I make a point of being nice and keeping things cordial: "It's just business, it's really not personal." So, I haven't had any problems serving notices.
All tenants pay rent either electronically or deposit directly to my bank. So, no need to ever know where I live.
Great topic!
- Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes12y
Great thread! I would like to add a few things. Always know your surroundings. I profile everyone. I too carry a gun everywhere I go. I refer to it as my "American Express", because I never leave home without it. When in a bad neighborhood, I like to keep it under my left leg like in the movie Dark Blue. That way it's ready if someone approaches my vehicle at a red light. You should always leave room in front of your car to take off if some weirdo approaches.
When looking at an empty house, never have your hands in your pockets. Especially when you are going up or down stairs, be ready. When you are talking to a stranger, always keep your hands out in front of you. (Not in a weird way, just have them ready) I always carry a knife in my back pocket. An attacker will usually try to take you to the ground. A knife could save your life. You can also carry a screwdriver when you enter the house. It can make a great weapon in a pinch.
Women are especially vulnerable to an attacker since a man will usually be bigger and stronger. No matter how tough he is, his groin and eyes are still super sensitive. You should always attack those areas. Especially if your finger nails are long. Use them to your advantage.
As far as dealing with irate tenants, most arguements seem to happen on the phone. I always let them completely vent to the point where they ask if I'm still there. Once they calm down, you can usually have a normal conversation. If you have a confrontation with a tenant face to face, it's best to do so out in the front yard.
- Specialist · Rockland, MA · Member since 2010 · 7k+ posts · 2k+ votes12y
Always be aware of your surroundings have an exit in mind.
Don't deliberately put yourself in risky situations.
Getting to know the neighbors esp. the older ones that know everything going on are huge assets.
@Joel Owens is right on the money. You are going to work out anyway why not take some with a dual focus fitness and protection. It will not take long to learn typical releases to get away.
Weapons if you carry realize they could be used against you. There is a reason police vests at a minimum stop the bullet they carry.
A small mag lite is your friend a source of bright light and can be used for protection.
I carried a camera when I surprised 3 guys who broke into a vacant one guy came right at me I aimed the camera started taking pictures he ran the other way, I think he is still running.
Remember the person goes through a Fight or Flight decision make fleeing his most popular option.
We used to recommend carrying a personal alarm using it when in trouble it worked many times for people I knew.
Great topic thanks for the opp to mention things.
Paul
- 12yAngie W.Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votesOP
Originally posted by George Carr:
Your safety and that of your family & home comes first.
"For the last year and a half I've been the manager, not the owner for newly acquired props, deeded in my business name. So now I'm just one of the agents that handle that property, just another working stiff. Even for older props now, my management company will handle all, I'll just be the agent there, too at turnovers."
As far as dealing with tenants, screen for the best so you don't have to deal with deadbeats. Even good tenants can go bad, or a psycho boyfriend or brother could move in, there are never any guarantees."
I am very interested in doing what you have done in the first quote above. I had a business a few years ago - with it I registered a fictitious name with my state, I then got a tax ID # from the state (this was a retail business) and was able to operate under this name. @George C. How do you have your business set up, if I may ask?
The second part of your quote is the reason I have become more aware of the risks to my safety and that of my family. My last tenant moved in a psycho girlfriend who he couldn't get to leave. She managed to get him arrested and banned from the property, and then moved in her new felon boyfriend by the time I got her out. She was bi-polar and very unstable and unpredictable. When my husband served her the papers to vacate we locked our personal residence down tight for the first week or two and was very conscience of our surroundings as she knew where we lived. I did not like the fact that renting a house had jepordized the safety of our daughter in this way.
- Landlord · Flat Rock, MI · Member since 2011 · 179 posts · 26 votes12y
My biggest scare so far has involved looking at foreclosed homes. Occasionally I have come across evidence of squatters who kicked in the back door and moved in, even once where the front door was carefully secured and there was a lockbox. I'm now much more careful when I first enter.
I'm not against carrying a gun, but so far no major tenant confrontations where one would have been called for.
- Involved In Real Estate · My City, NJ · Member since 2013 · 181 posts · 81 votes12y
Angie W,
I did the same as you for your retail biz, I registered a fictitious d/b/a name for my business, such as "abc Realty Services Company" & that's what I use and have it addressed to another property that I had my Drivers license at. Pretty easy, I'm carrying enough insurance and don't want to bother with an llc.
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes12y
Its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 . We were doing some work on a site near a war zone in Baltimore . Money was great , We hired 2 off duty balto city cops 1 to guard the trucks and 1 to guard the workers
- 12yAngie W.Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votesOP
@Michaela G. - this right here made me crack up! I would take my dog with me but I don't think they would be too deterred by a 15 year old, completely deaf, half blind, 15lb Shih Tzu...lol
In all seriousness, I certainly take safety more seriously now. I took the sign out of the yard for now due to the psycho phone calls it was generating (although in reality it's the best way to find a tenant for this house) until I can check into removing my personal address from the county records.
Steps I take for safety are:
Get as much info as possible during the phone conversation. If I feel uneasy, I either find something said in the conversation that would not meet our qualifications, or I find a time when my husband can show the house.
When I do show the house, I let the neighbors know I am there, my husband knows, and I stay outside or right by one of the doors. I never put myself in a position where the person is behind me.
I never schedule a showing after dark (this is hurting me right now because it gets dark so early - but my safety is worth more than a months rent)
If possible I schedule more than 1 person for the same time - this helps in two ways. If they both show I feel more secure - if one flakes at least I didn't go there for nothing.
I do not have tenants mail their payments to my personal residence. Originally I set up a PO box, but it was a pain. After a year I did have my tenant send it to my address. That bit me in the a$$ in the end. That's how the psycho girlfriend knew where I lived. I would love to switch to electronic payments - however, the tenant base in this area just won't support that option.
Moving forward I am working on ways to put a little distance between me and prospective tenants and the tenants themselves when they are approved.
I would like to set up the owner and address differently on the deed and possibly change to a business name.
I will go back to a PO Box for rents - or possibly a UPS address
I would like to secure a good RE Attorney BEFORE I have any more problems who will allow me to use their address if I have to file any notices, can advise me properly on RE matters, and knows the law (the attorney I used was ok but I want someone on speed dial lol who knows the law thoroughly)
I will also try to get the first and last name (with spelling) of anyone who wants to make an appointment so that I may check them out ahead of time.
- 12yAngie W.Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votesOP
@George C. thanks for mentioning that! I had forgotten that you could do that and frankly never thought about it for RE. I will be checking into this tomorrow. I know it is still possible to connect the dots - but it would take a lot more work to find.
- Real Estate Broker · Jacksonville, OR · Member since 2009 · 199 posts · 155 votes12y
Very important topic! I think showing a house to a stranger is far more risky then dealing with a disgruntled tenant, so I am just going to address that issue. Further, I showing rentals is FAR more dangerous than showing homes for sale.
ASk the stranger for their photo id when they arrive. Take a photo of their ID when you are still OUTSIDE and text it to someone(husband, wife, office, mom, whoever). Call in their license plate number in front of them, and describe the make and color of the vehicle. Do this in FRONT of the person, while still outside. If they object or tell you they don't have their drivers license, leave.
Example of my office call "Hi, Kim Knox here. I am at (Address), I am with (strangers name), I have texted you his/her drivers license. They are driving a green dodge, license plate number....It is 11:30am, I will be in touch at 11:45. Thanks so much.
If you feel jut a little uncomfortable add. "Oh, I didn't realize you were showing the home too, are you on your way? I will see you in a few!"
In my office, if I use the last statement, their response to me is "Do you want me to get there now?" If I am just talking to a voicemail, the stranger will be alerted that someone is soon to follow. Meaning, they will not have any get-away time.
Above, you are doing what you can to deter an attack. You are telling them, if you hurt me, you will get caught. You might never realize you have stopped an attack by being diligent in this practice.
I pack a tazer with me, and I am really comfortable using it. I have one in my car, and one in my purse. Guns can be easily taken away, because we are all at risk of thinking for a second before shooting someone. However, most of us will not require the same hesitation to taze someone, which makes it a wise decision for those of us that don't have a lot of experience with guns.
You are meeting a stranger and walking through a home together. This is high risk, and precautions must be taken. Men and women both.
Leave if a man tells you his wife/girlfriend will be there, and he ends up showing alone.
Always use a PO Box to have someone pay their rent or an office address. They should have a phone number to contact you for tenant issues, but beyond that, nothing.
Kim
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