Problem tenant who pays their rent

Waterbury, Connecticut
General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Problem tenant who pays their rent

Nathan B.
Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes

I currently have a 1rst floor tenant who has been a reliable payer of the rent for the last 2.5 years. They pay 1050 for a 3 bedroom apartment that currently would rent for around 1450-1500 in the present market.

The location is Connecticut and there is no rent control in the town. Currently they are month to month, and I’m working on another renovation above them and have a third apartment that is vacant at another property that is slow to fill this time of year.. so I need the cashflow currently until feb-march of 2023.

There are issues with this tenant. They are getting 100 a month off to do landscaping and snow removal that they do not do (they do the paths but not the driveway.. they fill the garden beds with knick knacks but don't remove the leaves... theres always an excuse, and they’ve claimed they can’t afford to pay the extra hundred). They are 60+ years old and waiting on a major leg surgery and have various health problems. They also smoke in the apartment, have trouble remembering to fill the oil for the furnace, and have friends drop by unexpectedly during the day who park in ways that block the driveway who they smoke with while I’m upstairs working on the renovation.  They're using storage on the property thats not theirs to use as well.

Until march 2022 the eviction moratorium in Connecticut made this person impossible to evict or end the lease.. and I had 3 apartments to renovate and re-rent this year that have basically stopped me from doing anything with them (still getting the rent every month and vacancy is more of a problem to me than a paying problem tenant).

My question is this: am I better off just doing an end of lease with this person with a 30-60 day move out time (I’m waiting until around march to do anything.. too many ways in the winter that this person could try to sue me for a convenient slip and fall or do massive damage to my property by “forgetting” to fill the furnace). Or am I better laying down the law sooner or later with a cure or quit with a rent increase to see if they shape up and fly right?  I am pessimistic about their ability to pay more rent or to adhere to the lease... I’m trying to get them out the easiest way. Is it easier // cleaner to remove a tenant with an end of lease than any other option? Do I need to give any explanation to them if this is the case or can I just say “I know its hard but this is a business and the investors want to end your lease” and leave it at that? I’m sure I am going to get peppered with ‘why!’s and ‘how dare you!’s and rationalizations if I try to explain why they aren’t the greatest tenant in the world and it seems like an end of lease with a timeframe they have to be out by is the easiest way to do it. Any advice would be appreciated. I already realize I’ve set a bad precedent with this tenant and am enabling their behavior.. again in some ways I had little choice during the eviction moratorium and managed to have tenants above them that didn’t mind their smoking… and I am currently dependent on the cashflow they are providing for the next couple of months.  I'm grateful to have survived the eviction moratorium without losing everything and they were a reliable tenant during that difficult time.  

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3y

Welcome to the BiggerPockets forums!

Full disclosure: I didn't even read your entire post because it's completely unnecessary.

You have a crappy tenant that is paying at least $400 a month below market. You are also paying her $100 for work she doesn't perform. 

$500 a month x 12 = $6,000

You are supplementing her rent to the tune of $6,000 a year.

Two months of vacancy would cost you $2,000. Once you rent at market rate, you will earn back that $2,000 within four months.

I would give her a 30-day notice of termination and get her out by end of January. 

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  • Nathan B.
    OP
    Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Underwood:

    The smoking in the unit is the big deal breaker for me. They are disrespecting you and your property. This is on top of all the other stuff.

    I would want them out if you can't control them.

    I would lock the storage area and let them get stuff out but not put anything in.

    Send them the lease termination. When they complain tell them they have to pay market rent and stop breaking the rules including smoking. Put up more smoke detectors and tell them tampering with one will fast track them to the curb within the law.

    If they can't be the model renter, get them out, get the place painted and fixed up enough to get a renter in their place right away.


     I completely agree with the sentiment.. I feel disrespected.  I am trying to wait until a more suitable time to have the fecal matter hit the rotating bladed exhaust port.  The finances are tight right now.  Planning on getting the storage area under control first in a way similar to what you're describing. 

    1Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

     You are rationalizing.  Here is a lease provision I use that you might consider adding to your lease to demonstrate to prospective applicants that you mean business.  The "lease violation fee" idea I got from @Nathan Gesner, and the smoke remediation fee from Andrew Schultz, of the RentPrep for Landlords podcast.  As always, check with your local attorney to verify validity.

    SMOKING: Smoking is prohibited inside your unit or in any interior common areas. This includes marijuana as well as electronic cigarettes (i.e. “vaping”). Smoking leaves soot and deposits, so an additional cleaning/remediation fee of at least $250.00 per room/area will be charged if we determine that smoking/vaping has occurred. You also agree to pay an additional $200.00 lease violation fee each time we determine, at our sole discretion, that smoking has occurred in your rental unit, due as Additional Rent. Payment of this fee by you does not represent a waiver by us for this breach of the Lease. Any cigarette butts from smoking outside by you or your guests must be picked up and properly disposed of.

    1Reply
  • Nathan B.
    OP
    Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Wesley W.:

     You are rationalizing.  Here is a lease provision I use that you might consider adding to your lease to demonstrate to prospective applicants that you mean business.  The "lease violation fee" idea I got from @Nathan Gesner, and the smoke remediation fee from Andrew Schultz, of the RentPrep for Landlords podcast.  As always, check with your local attorney to verify validity.

    SMOKING: Smoking is prohibited inside your unit or in any interior common areas. This includes marijuana as well as electronic cigarettes (i.e. “vaping”). Smoking leaves soot and deposits, so an additional cleaning/remediation fee of at least $250.00 per room/area will be charged if we determine that smoking/vaping has occurred. You also agree to pay an additional $200.00 lease violation fee each time we determine, at our sole discretion, that smoking has occurred in your rental unit, due as Additional Rent. Payment of this fee by you does not represent a waiver by us for this breach of the Lease. Any cigarette butts from smoking outside by you or your guests must be picked up and properly disposed of.

    The lease provision looks interesting; I wonder if it would hold it up Connecticut.  Do any of the landlords in Connecticut know?  

      Also, how often have you been able to actually squeeze this smoking fee out of a tenant.. or is it more useful as a deterrent?  
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  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Bingo!  I have not needed to use it yet.  I know it (should) hold up in court here in NYS, since Andrew uses it and he has at least a hundred units under management.

    Nothing to do with "squeezing" - it's a legally binding contract that they signed.  If you don't want to be charged, follow the provisions of the F----n lease.

    I do have a few tenants whom I suspect are lighting up with marijuana on occasion.  When they move out, I will swab the walls with a test kit you can buy online, and then respond accordingly based on those findings.

    0Reply
  • Rick BassettBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes
    3y

    We manage over 100 units in Connecticut; it's not difficult to get a tenant out as long as you follow all of the rules, keep the emotion out of it, and use an experienced eviction attorney for the process. "He who represents himself has a fool for a client." Remember that most tenants are entitled to free attorneys in our state; you don't want to be out-lawyered. 

    If everything is in order, and you don't get an overly sympathetic judge, they should be gone in 2 -3 months. Far less expensive and stressful than dealing with them in the long term.

    We usually start by offering them both a carrot (cash for keys) and a stick (30-day non-renewal notice)  simultaneously. If they balk at both or don't respond within ten days or so, then, we withdraw the carrot and start the process.

    Hope it helps.

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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    @Nathan B. yes, they will revert to old bad behavior always. And if you do month to month you can say this is the problem behavior and if you resume it I will give you notice to quit. That is if you decide to  renew.  I had one guy I had just renewed and he immediately resumed his bad behavior.  Thankfully I got him out.  

    0Reply
  • Becca F.
    Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Wesley W.:

     You are rationalizing.  Here is a lease provision I use that you might consider adding to your lease to demonstrate to prospective applicants that you mean business.  The "lease violation fee" idea I got from @Nathan Gesner, and the smoke remediation fee from Andrew Schultz, of the RentPrep for Landlords podcast.  As always, check with your local attorney to verify validity.

    SMOKING: Smoking is prohibited inside your unit or in any interior common areas. This includes marijuana as well as electronic cigarettes (i.e. “vaping”). Smoking leaves soot and deposits, so an additional cleaning/remediation fee of at least $250.00 per room/area will be charged if we determine that smoking/vaping has occurred. You also agree to pay an additional $200.00 lease violation fee each time we determine, at our sole discretion, that smoking has occurred in your rental unit, due as Additional Rent. Payment of this fee by you does not represent a waiver by us for this breach of the Lease. Any cigarette butts from smoking outside by you or your guests must be picked up and properly disposed of.

    This is very helpful. I'm having somewhat similar issues as the OP. I'm renting out a SFH to a family member who has vaped in front of me in the property along with late rent so there are 2 lease violations. Instead of apologizing and saying she won't vape in the house, her defense was "how do you know a tenant is vaping anyway?" I'm self managing this property but should have hired a property manager at the beginning and not rented out to a family member. 
    0Reply
  • Carola Dunham
    New to Real Estate · Trumbull, CT · Member since 2022 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    3y

    Often, when people set up clear boundaries where there was lack of clarity before, people with the new boundaries can get upset. Rather than "all or nothing", what about thinking of some compromises?  For example, give them a 30 day notice to move, but tell them you are going to help them find a new place. 

    I house hacked ( in LA ) for years. I had a tenant that just didn't work out. When I told her she needed to move, she didn't budge, tons of excuses. So, I gave her her written notice but also searched for and sent her nice places for about the same rent amount: she complied and was out in less than 30 days. 

    Your tenants might not move to a yard and a garden, or a 2 bedroom instead of a 3 bedroom, but can still have a place that works for them. And, your doing them a favor... 

    You've gotten some fantastic advice. Now, moving forward, you know what to do. Do let us know what you end up doing and how it all works out.

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