Verbally abusive Tenants

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Verbally abusive Tenants

Account Closed
Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes

I am 3 months into my first venture and inherited some bad tenants. It has been one problem after another with them and have been professional and courteous through every turn. They have been verbally abusive and vulgar at every turn. I understand some of their frustration but resorting to calling me too overweight to look at problems have pushed me to the breaking point I have not allowed them to see. I have fixed every issue within 6 to 24 hours of the report while Learning of the problem at the same time as them. I think they are going to try and Sue me and am worried. I have their abusive rants on video or recording via voice mail. Should I be worried of losing a lawsuit in ohio because heat went out for 6 hours till I remedied it or water in the basement/garage that shows up every cpl days that i squeegee as much as possible [two to three days]. I am new at this and am scared of it failing due to these ppl when all i have wanted to do is help but that turn to attorneys very step. No problem has gone beyond 24 hours.

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Susan Pompea
Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2012 · 39 posts · 12 votes
12y

Hi Zach,,

I just had verbally abusive tennants so I know what your goung through. She started this when they were late on their rent. You might want to think about telling them, "You don't seem to be happy living here. Why don't you start looking for a new place so you can move out by the end of February. I'm really sorry that it hasn't worked out." I would then follow up with a letter giving them their notice. You're documenting it just as I would. Whenever I talk to any tennant, I jot down the day, time and what it was about. Good idea to save the voicemail. Don't get sucked into their drama. They will keep doing yelling at and making fun of you because it has worked for them. They are a bully that you don't need to deal with. Do everything by the books because they probably have experience with the court system.

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  • Eric Black
    Rental Property Investor · Where we are parked · Member since 2013 · 584 posts · 178 votes
    12y

    Hi Zach,

    Sorry to hear about your bad tenants. First, what is the status of their lease? Are they on a month-to-month lease? If so, give them their 30 or 60-day notice, whatever is required in your area. You don't need a reason for terminating the lease if they are on a month-to-month and you give them the appropriate notice.

    Second, why does water show up in the basement every couple of days? You need to do more than squeegee it out. You need to find out what the problem is and fix it.

    Finally, I would recommend finding a local attorney and talking to them so you can be sure you are documenting everything and doing everything appropriately to protect yourself. Is it going to cost you money, yes, but it may well cost you less than hiring an attorney after they have filed a suit against you. Your attorney may also be able to recommend some steps to take to encourage the tenants to stop their behavior.

    Good luck!

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Their lease is up at the end of Feb and I have planned on giving them a 30 day notice before it is up. The water issue is 1 of two things I have yet to figure out. It's usually after rain or melting snow and I think it may be coming in the garage door or it could be from the wall but have not found a leak yet. I have been looking for the leak on the wall with no success so i believe it's running down hill and under my garage door. I also plan on talking with an attorney on Mon about the situation but wanted some info on here in the meantime to ease my mind. Thank you for a quick response and for the advice.

    0Reply
  • Pam R.
    Investor · Delaware, OH · Member since 2013 · 224 posts · 64 votes
    12y

    Hi Zach - Don't panic. Find your lawyer,and talk to them. Water in a basement/garage is not generally not a sue-able offense. As far as the heat, I wouldn't stress about that either. I am a landlord in Ohio. 6 hours is not unreasonable, and not neglectful on your part. Ask your lawyer if you should offer them a day's rent refund to compensate for their inconvenience. Or the value of a cheap hotel room.

    I haven't been to landlord court yet, but Ohio is a landlord-friendly state.

    And about the water...I'd be surprised if that is a new problem. It just started when you bought the place? It's worth checking your disclosures to see if that was mentioned.

    These tenants clearly subscribe to the policy that the best defense is a good offense. They must know you are a newbie, or maybe they are pros at this, and are playing to that.

    Breathe. Talk to your lawyer. Have him write up their 30-day notice while you're there. Let them know if they'd like to leave earlier, you'll pro-rate their rent. Maybe I'm an optimist, but the odds are in your favor that they aren't going to sue, they are just bullies. I know it's stressful, this is not a make-or-break-it situation if their lease is up in 45 days. They will soon be a distant memory.

    Good luck.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    I can only assume the water is not a new problem but it is most Def not in any of my disclosures. You Are Right About Them Knowing I Am A Newbie Because During One problem I disclosed that like a newbie would lol thinking they may give me the benefit of the doubt. Learned that lesson and hopefully won't cost to make the lesson harder. Thanks for the reassurance and I am counting the days until this is the memory of my first rough renters and a lesson on how to avoid these issues again. I was hoping I'd have a little more experience before I'd have to deal with these issues but life loves to throw curve balls every once in a while. What area of ohio do you do business in Pam?

    0Reply
  • Pam R.
    Investor · Delaware, OH · Member since 2013 · 224 posts · 64 votes
    12y

    Zach - I'm in Central Ohio - Columbus and Delaware. How are your other tenants? I saw in your intro it's a 4-plex.

    1Reply
  • Rick H.
    Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Sounds like you are intimidated by your tenants. Had that feeling back thirty years ago. I was always afraid that a tenant would stop paying me, sue me or otherwise cause an interruption in cash flow that would be catastrophic to my personal financial situation.

    Then it actually happened and I found myself paying the mortgages and other bills on not one but four properties concurrently with very meager reserves.

    Toughened me up. "You want me to do what? Go find another place to live!"

    Go buy Fixer Jay Decima's books and courses, perhaps attend his Bootcamo while he still has them (I think he's in his late 70's).

    Your job is to have better systems for getting people to do what you want them to than the systems that they have for not complying. Think about it.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Pam- My wife and I are in Cincinnati. The other tenants are great. Easy to deal with and friendly. Being tenants I have screened may have something to with it. I hope I am good with these people and it's just an early career expieri

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Rick- i will be looking up fixer Jay for sure to see what he is all about. You are right i feel more compelled to be worried about staying afloat in this beginning to save myself the hardship of footing the bill due to my plans I have for the property. That last sentence is very thought provoking and I would like to hear more about building these systems. Is it all in the lease or more about experience and confidence?

    0Reply
  • Robert Carl
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2013 · 205 posts · 44 votes
    12y

    You need to research and study more. Sounds like you might have jumped in this business early. I did the same thing now I read everything I can and try to design something for any problem that comes up. Check BP's Beginners Guide and Landlord on Auto Pilot by Micheal Moore to start.

    1Reply
  • Gerald K.
    Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2012 · 480 posts · 116 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Robert Carl:
    You need to research and study more. Sounds like you might have jumped in this business early. I did the same thing now I read everything I can and try to design something for any problem that comes up. Check BP's Beginners Guide and Landlord on Auto Pilot by Micheal Moore to start.

    Robert means Landlording on Autopilot by Mike Butler.

    Sounds like you have received a lot of good advice. Good luck.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Robert- I may have but I'm going to do everything I can to get through the Learning curve quickly. I will check the book out.

    Gerald- Thanks on the correction on the Author. I have gotten a lot of good advice.

    Thanks everyone.

    0Reply
  • John Weidner
    Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 200 votes
    12y

    I agree with @Rick H. Get tougher

    The more you jump the more some will take advantage. I personally let my tenants calls go to VM and I won't return texts for an hour or two. "Furnace goes out...nothing I can do...repair guy will be there in a day or 2. Leaking pipe....put a bucket under it, we will get to it when we get to it. "

    I don't see how you would be sued but you do need to fix the water issue long term coming in the basement.

    Don't get emotional. They are not your friends they are your cash flow

    Best of luck

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    John - I have learned this lesson all to well with these tenants.

    0Reply
  • Pam R.
    Investor · Delaware, OH · Member since 2013 · 224 posts · 64 votes
    12y

    Hi Zach - Good to hear that the tenants you picked are doing great.

    We tend to take a similar tack as @John Weidner and @Rick Harmon.

    We are nice and responsive, but are also straightforward and do not let our tenants own us. It helps that my husband is a relatively big guy with a beard and a camo shirt and people are frequently a bit intimidated on sight.

    And this is hard to describe, but when we screen tenants, we get a read for their level of compliance. This is more gut instinct, but it boils down to - do we believe they are going to comply when we tell them to do something: clean that trash out of the yard, remove that disabled vehicle, move-out in 30 days because things aren't working out? If they come off as combative, argumentative, or unreasonable during the screening process - no matter how well they qualify or how small the clue to these behaviors - we pass.

    I did forget to ask...do you have an umbrella policy?

    0Reply
  • Robert Carl
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2013 · 205 posts · 44 votes
    12y

    You need to research and study more. Sounds like you might have jumped in this business early. I did the same thing now I read everything I can and try to design something for any problem that comes up. Check BP's Beginners Guide and Landlord on Auto Pilot by Mike Butler to start.

    1Reply
  • Aly W.
    Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Good luck @Account Closed, you'll do fine! Having difficult first tenants will certainly train you for this business. Our first tenant took total advantage of us in many ways, was verbally abusive when she didn't get her way, and called the city and her Section 8 caseworker. Letters from our attorney helped, but we just had to deal with her until her lease expired, and we didn't renew it. As @John Weidner said, let calls go to voicemail and don't answer after a certain time of the day. I do however, respond within the day to their issues. When a new tenant moves in, explain the process of notifying you - between certain hours, to leave a detailed message, etc.

    Our local gas company offers a maintenance/service agreement. I tell the tenant when they move in that if it's a heat problem, call the utility company first. During this last cold snap, when temps were in the single digits, one of our best tenants said the house was still cold downstairs. Utility company said the boiler was working correctly, it was just extremely cold. We bought the tenant a room heater. It belongs to us, but they are happy to have it.

    I'm also wary of tenants like Pam described, who seem to want to prove they're not intimidated by a landlord when they first apply or come see the property. If they have an attitude up front, we find a reason to pass on them.

    2Reply
  • Sam Leon
    Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    I also do my screening but rely a lot on my gut feeling purely from the interactions with them.

    To me, communication, transparency, willingness to work out problems are very important.

    Once I get the feeling this is not a potential candidate for me, I immediately start to steer them to my competitors.

    2Reply
  • Susan Pompea
    Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2012 · 39 posts · 12 votes
    12y

    Hi Zach,,

    I just had verbally abusive tennants so I know what your goung through. She started this when they were late on their rent. You might want to think about telling them, "You don't seem to be happy living here. Why don't you start looking for a new place so you can move out by the end of February. I'm really sorry that it hasn't worked out." I would then follow up with a letter giving them their notice. You're documenting it just as I would. Whenever I talk to any tennant, I jot down the day, time and what it was about. Good idea to save the voicemail. Don't get sucked into their drama. They will keep doing yelling at and making fun of you because it has worked for them. They are a bully that you don't need to deal with. Do everything by the books because they probably have experience with the court system.

    3Reply
  • Rick BassettBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes
    12y

    Zach,

    Lots of good advice here.

    I will add that it is important not to show any emotion to these people, they are trying to upset you and get you to do something stupid that they can use against you.

    Give them no smile, no frown, stick to the book and toss them out.

    475-900-3100
    Bassett Property Management5108 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Gerald K.
    Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2012 · 480 posts · 116 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Sam Leon:
    I also do my screening but rely a lot on my gut feeling purely from the interactions with them.

    To me, communication, transparency, willingness to work out problems are very important.

    Once I get the feeling this is not a potential candidate for me, I immediately start to steer them to my competitors.

    Just listening to tenant's comments as they check out your unit can tell you a lot about tenants and how easy they will be to work with.

    Haha! Steer them to your competitors. That's great!

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Pam- What is an umbrella policy?

    Aly- Thank you. That is some good stuff. During the heat issue before the hvac tech showed I went and bought space heaters as well to help the situation. We have a lot of changes to policy and the lease due to the experience we are having.

    Sam- We have sat through some prospects steering them away as well beforewe filled up . I'm in sales ful time and can read people pretty well which has become a very useful skill.

    Susan- our last encounter we determined they plan on moving out which was great news. I have read with these types of people you can send a letter stating all correspondence must be done with mail unless an emergency arises. I think i may try that but with living above them and their attitudes i believe they will not listed to that but like you said documentation will be key if it goes further.

    Rick- You are absolutely right. I have gained a lot of info and peace of mind on this one post. I am glad I became a member.

    0Reply
  • Elizabeth Colegrove
    Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    Sorry to hear about your difficult tenants. Unfortunately it's a learning curve, one we have learned a lot. One thing I can recommend is as you learn, make sure you keep updating your policies. Our experiences has helped us make a strong lease (with the help of a lawyer so its legal). We are also putting together a move in packet.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    @Elizabeth

    Thanks for the advice. That is a great idea to have a move in packate.

    0Reply
  • Pam R.
    Investor · Delaware, OH · Member since 2013 · 224 posts · 64 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed - I didn't see your question before. Here's a definition of an umbrella policy from the Geico site, it describes it pretty clearly:

    1. Provides additional liability coverage above the limits of your homeowners, auto, and boat insurance policies. This protection is designed to kick in when the liability on these other policies has been exhausted.
    2. Provides coverage for claims that may be excluded by other liability policies including: false arrest, libel, slander, and liability coverage on rental units you own.

    I just paid my premium recently - it as $118/annually for $1 million in coverage. Well worth the peace of mind.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Homeowner · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Pam that's a great idea and for $10 a month it's a steal

    1Reply
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