Tenant made unauthorized upgrade

Tenant made unauthorized upgrade

Member since 2023 路 1 post 路 2 votes

Hi all, I am a fairly new landlord in northern Virginia, and have been renting my 2 bedroom town home for the last two years. I just had new tenants move in and within two weeks, the closet shelves in the master bedroom (wire) collapsed on one side. I hired a contractor to repair the damage, and reinstall the existing shelves within a few days of the issue being reported to me.

While the contractor was on site, the tenants then bought new shelving after the contractor told them wire shelves tend to collapse (I was not made aware of any damage to the shelving itself that would otherwise have made it impossible to re-install properly). The tenants then sent me receipts for the supplies and new shelving they purchased and asked the contractor to instal, and asked for reimbursement. I never authorized a change in shelving, or purchase/installation of new shelves (I did authorize restoration of the closet shelving to its original condition, installed properly). That said, I offered to cover half of the unauthorized costs, and reminded the tenants that alterations/modifications require prior written approval. They have since quoted Virginia statute at me stating I am required to provide a living environment that doesn鈥檛 cause hazard to life, and the wire shelves were a hazard to life. One of the tenants is a lawyer. I鈥檓 just uncertain of where to go from here. have others dealt with similar issues? I worry that if I reimburse them for the total (only $200) it will set a precedent this early in their tenancy that they can make whatever upgrades they want and then charge me for them. I also don鈥檛 want to deal with a lawsuit, or in trying to get rent if they just deduct the shelving from monthly rent dues. Open to any and all advice!

2Reply
57 views

Most Popular Reply

Realtor 路 Hanover Twp, PA 路 Member since 2018 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
3y

@Stephanie Kiel, even though they are a lawyer I would ignore them. The FIRST thing a lawyer will try is to bully people. Its a common first step for a lawyer to send a letter threatening action knowing that it costs them virtually nothing but has a fair chance at getting a positive response.

Is it worth this lawyers, time, money and effort to try to sue you over something small like this? I doubt it. Worst case if you lose you pay what they are asking and a small court fee but I honestly doubt they would waste their time. How would they win anyways unless they sued the manufacturer of the shelving their claimed was a hazard. Any judge would see not including the manufacturer as an admission that their assertion was disingenuous on its face.

If you absolutely feel the need to respond, I would first contact code enforcement and ask them "I am thinking of installing wire shelving in my property. Someone said those were some kind of hazard. Does the municipality consider them unsafe and ban them being installed?" When they say "Of course not", you can respond to the lawyer that you contacted the municipality and confirmed that wire shelving is not considered a hazard or habitability issue so they can put their mind at ease. 

In the future, I would instruct any going to work on the unit specifically NOT to talk to the tenants. The contractor talks and takes direction only from you and the tenant also communicates only with you. 

See this reply in the discussion

28 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Realtor 路 Hanover Twp, PA 路 Member since 2018 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    3y

    @Stephanie Kiel, even though they are a lawyer I would ignore them. The FIRST thing a lawyer will try is to bully people. Its a common first step for a lawyer to send a letter threatening action knowing that it costs them virtually nothing but has a fair chance at getting a positive response.

    Is it worth this lawyers, time, money and effort to try to sue you over something small like this? I doubt it. Worst case if you lose you pay what they are asking and a small court fee but I honestly doubt they would waste their time. How would they win anyways unless they sued the manufacturer of the shelving their claimed was a hazard. Any judge would see not including the manufacturer as an admission that their assertion was disingenuous on its face.

    If you absolutely feel the need to respond, I would first contact code enforcement and ask them "I am thinking of installing wire shelving in my property. Someone said those were some kind of hazard. Does the municipality consider them unsafe and ban them being installed?" When they say "Of course not", you can respond to the lawyer that you contacted the municipality and confirmed that wire shelving is not considered a hazard or habitability issue so they can put their mind at ease. 

    In the future, I would instruct any going to work on the unit specifically NOT to talk to the tenants. The contractor talks and takes direction only from you and the tenant also communicates only with you. 

  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Philadelphia, PA 路 Member since 2019 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    3y

    Seems like your lawyer tenant is being unreasonable. Your wire shelving is NOT a hazard to her life lol!

    It seems like you went out of your way to fix it

    She cannot make alterations to the place and invoice you for them. What is she going to do next? Replace the whole kitchen and send you a $15k bill? 

    That being said if there is a repair like a leak, broken appliance, etc that is not being addressed by the landlord for more than 30 days in the state of PA, the tenant can take action by fixing it themselves and billing the landlord. Again this is for cases where the landlord is actually at fault

    It seems like here she is just finding a bone to pick. If the closets actually look nice and won't break, I would help with it this time, BUT I would mention something like:

    "I can help you with it this time, but any other additions and alterations to the property must be first approved by the landlord."

    I've had it before when my tenant installed something beneficial to the property and I covered for materials for example. My tenant wanted to epoxy the garage floors. Said he can do it himself, so of course I offered to pay for materials

    Alan Asriants - New Century Real Estate 590 Reviews
    View Page
  • Alfath AhmedBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Columbus, OH 路 Member since 2022 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Stephanie Kiel:

    Hi all, I am a fairly new landlord in northern Virginia, and have been renting my 2 bedroom town home for the last two years. I just had new tenants move in and within two weeks, the closet shelves in the master bedroom (wire) collapsed on one side. I hired a contractor to repair the damage, and reinstall the existing shelves within a few days of the issue being reported to me.

    While the contractor was on site, the tenants then bought new shelving after the contractor told them wire shelves tend to collapse (I was not made aware of any damage to the shelving itself that would otherwise have made it impossible to re-install properly). The tenants then sent me receipts for the supplies and new shelving they purchased and asked the contractor to instal, and asked for reimbursement. I never authorized a change in shelving, or purchase/installation of new shelves (I did authorize restoration of the closet shelving to its original condition, installed properly). That said, I offered to cover half of the unauthorized costs, and reminded the tenants that alterations/modifications require prior written approval. They have since quoted Virginia statute at me stating I am required to provide a living environment that doesn鈥檛 cause hazard to life, and the wire shelves were a hazard to life. One of the tenants is a lawyer. I鈥檓 just uncertain of where to go from here. have others dealt with similar issues? I worry that if I reimburse them for the total (only $200) it will set a precedent this early in their tenancy that they can make whatever upgrades they want and then charge me for them. I also don鈥檛 want to deal with a lawsuit, or in trying to get rent if they just deduct the shelving from monthly rent dues. Open to any and all advice!


    I would not reimburse them for the shelving they bought. I would ask them to kindly return the shelving and I would have your contractor buy new shelving that you approve of. This will set standards. Also, your contractor/handyman should not really be talking to your tenants. My crew is fully aware that they only communicate issues with me or someone from my team. Good luck!

  • Real Estate Agent 路 Wilmington, NC 路 Member since 2021 路 166 posts 路 116 votes
    3y

    As others said it sounds ridiculous, and he is 100% all "talk" over a $200 dispute it would be insane to go after any legal repercussions. I wouldn't treat them different from any other tenants. Lawyers have been some of the toughest people to work with for me (I'm sure it's not always that way).

  • Rental Property Investor 路 Sumter, SC 路 Member since 2015 路 334 posts 路 531 votes
    3y

    Calling wire shelving "a hazard to life" is a tad dramatic, lol.

    Since you offered to pay half already for their unauthorized purchase, do only that and stand your ground.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker 路 Cody, WY 路 Member since 2010 路 28k+ posts 路 41k+ votes
    3y

    Wire shelving does not collapse. If installed correctly, it's as strong (or stronger) than solid wood shelves.

    They're trying to intimidate you to get what they want. Stick to your guns or tell them they can find another place to live.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Real Estate Agent 路 Reston, VA 路 Member since 2017 路 295 posts 路 163 votes
    3y

    @Stephanie Kiel Just pay the $200 and move on. Not because I think you are right or they are wrong. Take the lesson that if he claims he is a lawyer(he could be- this Northern VA after all) you make sure you go by rules in the future. Many people are caught up on who is right or lawsuits, its always a waste of time and money. If it was something more costly, this would make sense. Instead you are going to ruin relations with your tenant over $200.

  • Austin, TX 路 Member since 2019 路 5k+ posts 路 5k+ votes
    3y

    Wire shelves that do not line up with studs can be affixed to wood backers that are attached to studs as in the pic at the bottom.

    Note in the pic the workman has done good job, and trimmed the corners neatly and evenly, and primed and painted the boards to match the surrounding paint. That does not happen by accident, you must spec what you want.

    The wire shelves allow for easier painting on turns, (easy quick) visual conformation that the outgoing renter has not left (a handgun, illegal substances, or a big dead bug) up there.

    I am not aware of these ubiquitous shelves being a danger to life...

    Seems like the tail wants to wag the dog here--maybe a harbinger of things to come.

    Either the renter or you are the boss...maybe a harbinger of things to come.

    Good Luck!

    Note on the bottom pic with the full shelf, it obscures the view. What is behind those left behind bedrolls?

    Plus that shelf must be painted.

  • Real Estate Consultant 路 Cleveland 路 Member since 2020 路 6k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Stephanie Kiel:

    Hi all, I am a fairly new landlord in northern Virginia, and have been renting my 2 bedroom town home for the last two years. I just had new tenants move in and within two weeks, the closet shelves in the master bedroom (wire) collapsed on one side. I hired a contractor to repair the damage, and reinstall the existing shelves within a few days of the issue being reported to me.

    While the contractor was on site, the tenants then bought new shelving after the contractor told them wire shelves tend to collapse (I was not made aware of any damage to the shelving itself that would otherwise have made it impossible to re-install properly). The tenants then sent me receipts for the supplies and new shelving they purchased and asked the contractor to instal, and asked for reimbursement. I never authorized a change in shelving, or purchase/installation of new shelves (I did authorize restoration of the closet shelving to its original condition, installed properly). That said, I offered to cover half of the unauthorized costs, and reminded the tenants that alterations/modifications require prior written approval. They have since quoted Virginia statute at me stating I am required to provide a living environment that doesn鈥檛 cause hazard to life, and the wire shelves were a hazard to life. One of the tenants is a lawyer. I鈥檓 just uncertain of where to go from here. have others dealt with similar issues? I worry that if I reimburse them for the total (only $200) it will set a precedent this early in their tenancy that they can make whatever upgrades they want and then charge me for them. I also don鈥檛 want to deal with a lawsuit, or in trying to get rent if they just deduct the shelving from monthly rent dues. Open to any and all advice!


     If there better who cares, pay them the $200 and tell them any other "improvements " must be  approved,,,,,, ALSO hire a PM co

    All the best 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent 路 Washington, D.C. 路 Member since 2012 路 17k+ posts 路 30k+ votes
    3y

    No reimbursement. Wire shelving is not a threat to life. Who cares if they a lawyer. They dont get special privileges because of that.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 路 15k+ posts 路 11k+ votes
    3y

    Sorry but they are way out of line.  The wire shelves likely collapsed because they put too much stuff on them.  You hired someone to reinstall them, end of story.  When their lease comes up for renewal, I would not renew it-they are going to be trouble.

    They are also like used to getting their own way and perhaps thinking you are a push over as you are a woman.

  • Mackaylee BeachPro Member
    Real Estate Agent 路 Kansas City, MO 路 Member since 2020 路 1k+ posts 路 492 votes
    3y

     Have a talk with your contactors, they should not be receiving orders from tenants! They must only repair/upgrade what has been approved by you. Anything the tenants mention must be communicated to you. You hired someone to come out and complete repairs within timely manner, I would not reimburse.

     Find verbiage on your lease stating that all repairs/upgrades must be approved by the owner.

  • Honolulu, HI 路 Member since 2008 路 3k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    3y
    Aloha,

    Sounds fishy to me. They bought new shelving after the contractor talked with them, but while he was on site? Are we sure they did not buy an organizer and then bust the existing shelving so it needed to be fixed? I would not reimburse the Tenant for anything, it just sets a bad precedent. In fact, if the contractors invoice was for more than you expected for the authorized repair, I would require the Tenant pay for the additional work.

    I would also inform the contractor that you sent him out, therefore ONLY you can authorize changes in scope or materials, and next time he won't get paid by you either, unless he gets verbal approval via phone before any change. He should send you before/after pics of any repairs.

    You should have responded to the Tenant by email or letter, rather than a conversation.It is too easy to get conned into agreement or just making a statement you should not have when you are shooting from the hip.
  • Member since 2023 路 59 posts 路 34 votes
    3y

    I wouldn't reimburse them either. And I would try to avoid renting to lawyers. Too many stories of them being difficult tenants.

  • Rental Property Investor 路 Los Angeles, CA 路 Member since 2017 路 2k+ posts 路 5k+ votes
    3y

    You either set the tone of the relationship or you allow them to set the tone. Only one of these will work out well for you. If you don't want to "deal with it", then get out of the business. Flat out, sell the unit today. You're not cut out to be a landlord and you will end up failing. That may sound harsh, but the weak get eaten in this business. 

    The wire shelves were working just fine for at least two years. They clearly put too much weight on them and they ripped away from the wall. I'd let the tenant know that this was an issue caused by them and as a courtesy I will not be charging them for the repair this one time. 

    Let them know the new shelving they purchased was of their own choice and you cannot reimburse them anything for this cost. Additionally, since they are now attached to the wall, they become a permanent fixture and will remain when they leave.

    Let them know in the future they need to contact you prior to any requested changes or upgrades. Failing to do so is a violation of the lease. Let him know that if any part of the lease was unclear, he should find a competent attorney to review it for him.

    If they deduct the $200 from the rent, immediately (following your local laws)  issue a late notice and late fee. If it remains unpaid, issue cure or quit / 3 day notices / whatever your area requires...

  • John MorganPro Member
    Rental Property Investor 路 Grand Prairie, TX 路 Member since 2018 路 2k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    3y

    Tenants like this get full market rent at annual renewal time. I鈥檇 work with them and remind them to run it by you next time. And do a month to month lease at renewal. I only do month to month leases for reasons like this. I can boot out bad ones any time.

  • Dave KushPro Member
    Frankfort, IL 路 Member since 2022 路 204 posts 路 132 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

    @Stephanie Kiel, even though they are a lawyer I would ignore them. The FIRST thing a lawyer will try is to bully people. Its a common first step for a lawyer to send a letter threatening action knowing that it costs them virtually nothing but has a fair chance at getting a positive response.

    Is it worth this lawyers, time, money and effort to try to sue you over something small like this? I doubt it. Worst case if you lose you pay what they are asking and a small court fee but I honestly doubt they would waste their time. How would they win anyways unless they sued the manufacturer of the shelving their claimed was a hazard. Any judge would see not including the manufacturer as an admission that their assertion was disingenuous on its face.

    If you absolutely feel the need to respond, I would first contact code enforcement and ask them "I am thinking of installing wire shelving in my property. Someone said those were some kind of hazard. Does the municipality consider them unsafe and ban them being installed?" When they say "Of course not", you can respond to the lawyer that you contacted the municipality and confirmed that wire shelving is not considered a hazard or habitability issue so they can put their mind at ease. 

    In the future, I would instruct any going to work on the unit specifically NOT to talk to the tenants. The contractor talks and takes direction only from you and the tenant also communicates only with you. 


     All of this! 馃憜

    Handle it diplomatically and then have one finger on the lease-non-renewal button going forward.

  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender 路 Philadelphia, PA 路 Member since 2016 路 2k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    3y

    If the repair was an upgrade, who cares.  I just make sure I have the insurance to cover any issues there.  

  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Pittsburgh 路 Member since 2018 路 6k+ posts 路 5k+ votes
    3y

    A lot of people are making a lot of assumptions about this post.  I could easily argue both sides.  I just don't think we in the forums know enough of the facts.

    For example, what if the previous tenants had damaged the shelves and caused the collapse?  There isn't enough information in the post.  But, there also is the risk of setting a precedent.

    So, to recap, we forum folk don't know:

    -the condition the shelves were in at move-in, and whether the previous or current tenants caused the issue;

    -how well the current tenants were screened; and

    -if OP reimbursing will set a precedent that the tenants would take advantage of, or just be a one-time courtesy that could potentially be positive.

    Shrug.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant 路 San Diego / Phoenix 路 Member since 2021 路 12k+ posts 路 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Alfath Ahmed:

     I would agree with this^^^. Do not cave in to these people. It isn't about winning v losing, it's about setting the tone of the relationship. They're already trying to intimidate you, and that alone would P me off.

    Really important to note from above that you do not EVER allow the tenant to talk to your workers. Ever. It will cause more problems than you could ever imagine. I learned this working for years with customers trying to instruct my crew and Subs to do work outside contract. Even if they didn't have bad intent, it just screws everything up. It is your property and ultimately everything will come back to you in the event of damages and injuries.

    And just on principles, I would get rid of these people when their lease is done. Just my .02...

  • Member since 2020 路 7 posts 路 1 vote
    3y
    The suggestion to contact code enforcement is excellent and easy.

    The fact that the contractor said wire shelving is a problem is where they got the ammunition and why the contractor then installed what they bought without your approval is beyond me. Definitely need to have a conversation with the contractor.
  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor 路 Manteca, CA 路 Member since 2017 路 1k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    3y

    Wire shelves...... hazard to life.... what are they loading on those wire shelves? Bags of knives and razor blades?.... come on.....

    I could go either way.... its $200 and its an upgrade to my unit (make it clear the shelves stay). I might pay the $200 and make it 1000% clear this is a one time exceptions....PLUS never talk to my workers again.... EVER....this reimbursement after the fact will NEVER happen again.....

    Or I could tell them to pound sand... the "I'm a lawyer" thing would piss me off. Over $200 (really $100 since you offered to pay half) you are going to threaten me with a lawsuit? Time for a "happy clause" talk.... "maybe this isnt a good fit.... you are welcome to vacate within 30 days and there will be a full refund of your deposit and we go out separate ways"..... otherwise STFU....

    This is your first test of how you want the relationship to go

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant 路 San Diego / Phoenix 路 Member since 2021 路 12k+ posts 路 15k+ votes
    3y

    @Ned J. ^^^ absolutely killed it !!

  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Pittsburgh 路 Member since 2018 路 6k+ posts 路 5k+ votes
    3y

    @Ned J.

    @Bruce Woodruff

    this is a major tempest in a teapot post!  I don't disagree with either of you, but you're reading things into the post that aren't there:

    -We don't know why the shelves failed, AND

    -It appears the contractor initiated the conversation about the sturdiness of wire shelves, AND

    -The tenant didn't say "I'm a lawyer," the OP said that.  (The tenant quoted statute at them, which anyone can do, lawyer or not.)

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant 路 San Diego / Phoenix 路 Member since 2021 路 12k+ posts 路 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @Ned J.

    @Bruce Woodruff

    this is a major tempest in a teapot post!  I don't disagree with either of you, but you're reading things into the post that aren't there:

    -We don't know why the shelves failed, AND

    -It appears the contractor initiated the conversation about the sturdiness of wire shelves, AND

    -The tenant didn't say "I'm a lawyer," the OP said that.  (The tenant quoted statute at them, which anyone can do, lawyer or not.)


    You're partially right....but the tenant is still being an A** in my opinion. Asking the LL's Contractor do work without going through proper channels, describing the situation as life threatening, refusing to split the cost.....I would just not want to deal with these folks....

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.