My Tenant Messaged Me and Asked for 2 Weeks Extension

My Tenant Messaged Me and Asked for 2 Weeks Extension

Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 335 posts · 52 votes

My BP Landlord Community,

One of my tenants messaged me and told me that she won’t be able to pay her rent on the due date. She will need two weeks extension. She sounded very confident as she had done something like this before.

She told me her husbands lost his job and just found a new one. She said that her car did not have a plate and had cost her an arm/leg for it.

My wife told me to send in the written notice to start the paper trail. I told her that to give the tenant a week – in my stomach I know that when the one week came around I won’t see the money.

I can smell this tenant and I think she is going to be the trouble one with rent due issue.

Ideally, I can start the eviction process immediately with 1 day late in MA, because we don’t have a grace period. She is a TAW with a small baby. I don’t charge her late fee, because MA is not allowed to.

Should I tell her to move on if she is late again next month?

She was late last month too – 5 days

In general, I am a passive and aggressive. I let thing slight here and there, then I bite on it aggressively when it reaches a certain point.

Do you have any thought? Let's here it.

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Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y

When a tenant tells *you* when they'll pay the rent, you can be fairly certain they won't. Clearly, paying the rent isn't their priority - getting a license plate is. We evicted a tenant last month that had this outlook. She was late several times, paid the late fees (allowed in FL), and finally got to the point where she didn't pay at all. She gave 2 future dates that came and went, and we filed after the 2nd one...and she again gave us another date that she would pay. She was evicted in a month.

Right now we have a tenant that hasn't paid this month, here in NJ. She's been late several times before, always paid the late fees, and has been a good tenant so I let it go until last week. She claimed her bank account was compromised and a loved one was in the hospital. The attorney is filing the Pay or Quit tomorrow and will follow with the eviction.

If tenants believe there are no consequences to paying late, they will always pay on their own schedule, and in your case, you can't even collect late fees. We've gotten 3 new tenants in the last 6 months, and each one was told upon lease signing that the rent is due on the 1st, and the Pay or Quit will be served on the 3rd. No exceptions. They can borrow the money from friends or relatives.

I don't know what TAW is (rental assistance?). Is she on a month to month? If so, give her the 30 day notice or whatever is required and/or file the Pay or Quit. Paying rent when it's due is not a choice; it's a legal obligation.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    12y

    No late fees in MA? What the heck? Are mortgage companies not allowed late fees, either?

    I have worked with tenants in situations like this but always made it clear the late fees would be due at the same time. And two weeks is a long time.

    Does TAW (tenant at will, I assume) mean she's on a month to month lease? What's the timeline for giving notice the lease is being terminated?

  • Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    When a tenant tells *you* when they'll pay the rent, you can be fairly certain they won't. Clearly, paying the rent isn't their priority - getting a license plate is. We evicted a tenant last month that had this outlook. She was late several times, paid the late fees (allowed in FL), and finally got to the point where she didn't pay at all. She gave 2 future dates that came and went, and we filed after the 2nd one...and she again gave us another date that she would pay. She was evicted in a month.

    Right now we have a tenant that hasn't paid this month, here in NJ. She's been late several times before, always paid the late fees, and has been a good tenant so I let it go until last week. She claimed her bank account was compromised and a loved one was in the hospital. The attorney is filing the Pay or Quit tomorrow and will follow with the eviction.

    If tenants believe there are no consequences to paying late, they will always pay on their own schedule, and in your case, you can't even collect late fees. We've gotten 3 new tenants in the last 6 months, and each one was told upon lease signing that the rent is due on the 1st, and the Pay or Quit will be served on the 3rd. No exceptions. They can borrow the money from friends or relatives.

    I don't know what TAW is (rental assistance?). Is she on a month to month? If so, give her the 30 day notice or whatever is required and/or file the Pay or Quit. Paying rent when it's due is not a choice; it's a legal obligation.

  • Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    12y

    @Chan K. It Depends..How long tenancy? Verify income for husband new job to make sure they can still afford.(most current pay stub) If he's making less it can be an ongoing problem which will dig them in a deeper hole..

  • Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Sounds like she's spending YOUR deposit on her last months rent. The only thing I'd accept is weekly payment. That way you are pushing out the time one week at a time. If she can't come up with one weeks rent now she probably won't have a full month's rent in two.

  • Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 335 posts · 52 votes
    12y

    @Jon Holdman Hi Jon, Yes, she is a tenant at will - month to month basis. In MA, you are not allowed to collect late fee per the law. I can ask her to pay late fee, but she does not have to pay if she does not want to.

    You have deal with these types before and had charged them late fee. Do they continue to be late and do you end up evicting them? I listened to one of Brandon's podcast, he mentioned that he let something like this slight before, but suddenly the tenant stops paying completely and he began the eviction process. It sounds like my pattern is going to be like that - it will probably take me two year to kick her out, because she has a 10 months old.

    I might have to tell her I will start charging late fee if she continue to breach her obligation her pay late.

  • Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 335 posts · 52 votes
    12y

    @Aly W. My tenant's pattern sounds to look like your. I am impressed that it only took you one month to evict them. Do you they have small kids?

    @Rolanda Eldridge and @Bob Bowling , your points are very well taken. I never thought of such request from her. I am taking your down right now.

    Thanks,

  • Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Chan K. , yes, she had a 5 month old baby. We've evicted 3 tenants in 6 years, and they all had young children/babies. In NJ and FL, children have no bearing on a non-payment eviction. The current tenant has 2 teenagers.

    The one month eviction was started almost as soon as possible; the tenant did not respond to the summons, and we won by default. The longer you wait, the more you lose.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Accept no eviction-specific advice from anyone from a state other that your own. This thread isn't bad so far, but I have seen advice on others that would get you murdered in a Massachusetts court.

  • Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 335 posts · 52 votes
    12y

    can I start the eviction on my own without an attorney? I guess I can, but what is the pro and con? How much does it usually cost?

  • Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    If this is your first eviction, I would use a lawyer who is very experienced in landlord/tenant law - not divorces, personal injury, or DUIs.

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y

    For clarification you can charge late fees in MA.

    However it has to be written in the lease (If you have a month to month TAW situation without a written document you are SOL). If it is written in the lease or rental agreement you cannot charge the fee until the rent is at least 30 days late. So as a practical matter you really never collect a late fee as you should be well into the eviction process by then. And if you aren't you just are dragging out the inevitable. I just assume any late fees will get tacked on to the rest of my most likely uncollectable judgment when they are evicted eventually.

    It is pretty silly that they basically force you to start the eviction process rather than collect a small fee. Chan I would recommend posting your 14 day notice to quit (yup 14 days...) for nonpayment of rent even if you think they will pay. Explain that they have 10 days to "cure" the situation from the day it is posted (and you can choose to give them longer, you just don't have a choice if they do it within 10 days). Since quick evictions are like 3-4 months here you should get things moving quickly.

    There is no defined waiting period to post. Most people usually give 3-5 days but if you don't have the rent by the end of the day on the 1st you can post on the 2nd.

    BTW I don't have any personal experience with evicting a TAW so take this with a grain of salt, but I would suggest just giving her the 30 day notice to terminate the agreement without cause. Since you don't have to have cause there isn't really much of a defense if they don't leave (assuming you would rather just have her gone). If you go for the nonpayment they can stop it just by paying (which maybe is fine for you) or can drag things out more. Judges seem to find not paying the least compelling thing to evict someone over...

    Oh and before someone suggests serving a non-payment and 30 day notice based on my research doing that technically voids both notices. You are essentially serving then with 2 different statutory legal dates so the argument is which one should they be following. I think that happens regularly and if the tenant isn't savvy to the laws or has their own attorney it probably goes unnoticed but if it doesn't the clock will reset on you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Annapolis, MD · Member since 2014 · 214 posts · 140 votes
    12y

    @Chan K. you do not need late fee! This is what you can do if late fee is not allowed:

    Say if you charge rent $1300/mo then write up your lease for $1450 and give 150/ discount if they pay by the 4th. It works for me really well.It was even court tested once. (here in MD you only allowed to charged small 2-3% late fee), but with my "discounted rent" I get around this problem pretty well to discourage "lateness" Good luck to you!

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Val Csontos:
    @Chan K. you do not need late fee! This is what you can do if late fee is not allowed:
    Say if you charge rent $1300/mo then write up your lease for $1450 and give 150/ discount if they pay by the 4th. It works for me really well.It was even court tested once. (here in MD you only allowed to charged small 2-3% late fee), but with my "discounted rent" I get around this problem pretty well to discourage "lateness" Good luck to you!

    And this goes to @Richard C. 's point about being careful about listening to advice from people that work in other states.

    I am sure that works and is completely legal in MD. In fact I have that written into some of my leases that I have in other states where it is allowed. It is a nice clause and a prompt payment discount sounds so much less punitive than a late fee.

    However the Mass legislature doesn't think so and it is illegal as it is just considered to be a disguised late fee.

  • Rental Property Investor · Annapolis, MD · Member since 2014 · 214 posts · 140 votes
    12y

    If you must evict, i would recommend not to get legal advise from here, rather go to your county courthouse and ask for a Tenant Landlord Law Guide or handout or even the online link for the same. Most Court Houses have some sort of a handout regarding to steps that are involved in order to evict someone. You will see it is not that difficult just obey the deadlines and pay attention to details.

  • Rental Property Investor · Annapolis, MD · Member since 2014 · 214 posts · 140 votes
    12y

    @Shaun Reilly you are right!! It is a must that You know you local laws where you have properties. Happy Investing!

  • Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 335 posts · 52 votes
    12y

    Wow, these are great comments.

    @Shaun Reilly I will post the "14 days notice to quit". Is this generic form accepatable: http://www.constableservice.com/Forms/pdf/14%20Day%20Notice%20to%20Quit.pdf

    Can I mail it in or post on her door?

    @Aly W. TAW is Tenant at Will. It is a month to monty tenant.

    @Val Csontos I have a copy of landlord right handy, but I think I will take your recommendation and call the court house or stop by to pick up their latest guideline.

    I like to be hand on.

    Can someone give me a quick procedure of the whole process if you had gone through one completely (the eviction)?

    So, this way I can compare note when I pick up the guideline at the court house this week.

    Thanks

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2013 · 82 posts · 10 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Val Csontos:
    @Chan K. you do not need late fee! This is what you can do if late fee is not allowed:

    Say if you charge rent $1300/mo then write up your lease for $1450 and give 150/ discount if they pay by the 4th. It works for me really well.It was even court tested once. (here in MD you only allowed to charged small 2-3% late fee), but with my "discounted rent" I get around this problem pretty well to discourage "lateness" Good luck to you!

    Interesting strategy val. I might use this in the future. Thanks for the idea.

  • Real Estate Investor · Henderson, NV · Member since 2011 · 87 posts · 22 votes
    12y

    @Chan K. Interesting I had a similar thing just happen: One of my tenants supposedly lost her job and got a new one. She said they will pay by the 19th and we have late fees. My properties are managed and my PM told them they have rent due in another 10 days which she said she could handle.

    So I relayed the message back that I expect it in by the 19th otherwise I will evict. Same with next month on time otherwise eviction time. Then I get a judgement and off to my collections guy.

    The good thing is at least she called in. However, I have found that you have to be firm with tenants otherwise they will see how far they can push. Good luck!

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Chan K.:
    Wow, these are great comments.

    @Shaun Reilly I will post the "14 days notice to quit". Is this generic form accepatable: http://www.constableservice.com/Forms/pdf/14%20Day%20Notice%20to%20Quit.pdf

    Can I mail it in or post on her door?

    @Aly W. TAW is Tenant at Will. It is a month to monty tenant.

    @Val Csontos I have a copy of landlord right handy, but I think I will take your recommendation and call the court house or stop by to pick up their latest guideline.

    I like to be hand on.

    Can someone give me a quick procedure of the whole process if you had gone through one completely (the eviction)?

    So, this way I can compare note when I pick up the guideline at the court house this week.

    Thanks

    The form looks to have all the elements in it at first glance. Thankfully I'm not all that up on things since I have not had an eviction since 2008. You have lots of options to give it. The issue is that the easiest thing to claim is that they were not served. You have to be able to prove you did it. So options that usually work best are having a constable do it. That will always work. Delivering it yourself and having them sign an acknowledgement of receipt. Works great if they answer the door and are willing to sign. I don't know if having pictures and video would help in this case. Like if you walk around show the building and then show you stuff one in their mailbox, slide one under the door and tape one to the outside of each door to the unit. Also you can send it certified mail with return receipt. Then as long as they sign for it they can't say they didn't get it, but you have to depend on them signing for it.

    You can, and probably should, send it by first class mail as well, but that depends on them not knowing they can just say they didn't get it. You can also email it to them but again they can just say they never opened it or they stopped using that account or something.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    Establish an incentive for paying on-time and a disincentive for paying late that is not a late fee. Our all-star tenants (pay rent on-time, take care of the property, abide by the terms of the rental agreement, and don't cause us any trouble) receive periodic gifts from us and are the first to get property improvements. Our late payers and rule breakers receive extra inspections and rent raises.

  • Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2012 · 480 posts · 116 votes
    12y

    @Chan K. ,

    First off, you should become familiar with your landlord tenant law in your state. Next, join a landlord association. They will be great help in situations like this. Third, get a good eviction lawyer on your team. Your landlord association can probably provide references. Follow your rental agreement rules and enforce them. Establish a process and stick to it. For example, rent is due on the 1st, late on 2nd - (if rent is late, call the tenant to ask what their exact plan is) - 3rd, post a pay or quit notice on the 5th or 7th or whatever you decide - then follow the process - it will eliminate a lot of unnecessary thinkng and wondering what to do - and don't listen to what the Tenant's excuses or reasons are. Their problem should not be your problem. Very very rarely for long term tenant's you have history with you might bend your process, but even so, you should never put yourself into a position of trusting something a tenant says you can't verify and then be unable to begin the eviction process in a timely manner. Since your tenant is on a month-to-month agreement, you should be able to terminate the lease with a 20 or 30 day notice without cause before the end of the rental period (probably already too late this month). The 3 or 5 or whatever it is pay or vacate notice will have to be used if you want them out quicker than that. You need to follow your landlord tenant laws for your area. I'm not a lawyer so no legal advice. Good Luck.

  • Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    In FL, my contractor tapes the 3 Day Pay or Quit Notice to the tenant's door and takes a photo. Once the eviction is filed, the notices are served by the court and then the sheriff's office.

    In NJ, our attorney handles the evictions. She told us that any legal notices that we want to serve the tenant ourselves should be served 3 ways - certified (which they'll rarely pickup or sign for), regular mail, and posting on the door. We let her handle all legal notices.

    I documented our March eviction from start to finish. It's very detailed, and specific to Broward County, FL.

    @Gerald K. is absolutely right on all counts. The tenant we're about to serve with a Pay or Quit is on a month to month tenancy. The issue is whether the tenant will leave even with a 30 day termination notice. If they haven't paid the rent, and know they won't be getting their security deposit back, it's likely they won't leave on their own. I'm waiting to hear what my attorney is going to say about the situation today.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    12y

    @Chan K. I'll repeat @Aly W. advice from earlier in the thread. Get an attorney. If you're going to be in this business you need to have someone you can call. Do the initial consultation and find out EXACTLY how to proceed from them. Yes, you will spend a few hundred. But now you have a contact for furture issues and you can get through this situation correctly.

  • Real Estate Investor · atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 456 posts · 237 votes
    12y

    It really does pay to have a PM in many situations. It's critical to know the laws of your state. I was amazed to read this about MA landlord tenant laws:

    "Late Payment Penalty
    A landlord cannot charge interest or a penalty on late rent until 30 days after the due date. However, the landlord can begin the eviction process immediately, even if the rent is only one day overdue. The landlord also cannot use a reverse penalty clause to encourage you to pay early. For example, it is illegal for a landlord to reduce the rent by 10% if the rent is paid within the first five days of the month."

    Here, the tenant is month to month without a lease. Simply give her 30 days notice to terminate the lease. Post it on her door & take a picture of it, send certified mail return receipt & email it if you have her email. Then hand it over to you lawyer that you have hopefully obtained and when you re-rent the place, use a written lease. MA is interesting but their policies probably result in higher rents. Another place where my shared housing model will do better andyield higher net rents. If the tenant has paid rent every 3 months or every 6 months, you would have to give notice based on the frequency of the payments. Yikes!

  • Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I spoke to my attorney in NJ this morning and she's filing the eviction today. To reiterate the importance of starting the process sooner than later, my tenant's court date will be May 2nd. Had I filed last week, it would have been this month.

    The tenant is on a month to month tenancy, but still needs to be evicted for non-payment of rent. My lease includes items called "additional rent" that the tenant will be responsible for if she wants to stay - namely, attorney's fees and late fees. These must be paid by May 2nd, plus May's rent, to stop the eviction.

    My attorney wrote my lease, and I strongly urge any landlord to invest in an attorney if for no other reason than to write your lease - they will probably be the one defending it in court and you want to be sure it includes all amounts you are entitled to collect. Collection, of course, is a whole other topic ;)

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