How would you handle this?

How would you handle this?

Investor · lehigh valley, PA · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 23 votes

O boy here goes try to make a long story short

Had first, last and security upfront.

Couple moved in july, he was arrested in september.

Rent was due September 1st never paid still as of today. I was forced to use their last month rent on 9/30 by them since they were so far behind and I needed to pay the mortgage. They are telling me I should have about $400 on october 10th and will be caught up by end of October, he started a new job (Also repaying back last month that I used, september rent even thought it was not intended for that, its not their last month)

He seems very controlling and was cursing me out on the phone f this and f that. I will bring my lawyer and sue you because your place is not up to code (1 thing they caused, wired fan wrong idk why) and that I am not allowed to step foot on " his house" without 24hrs notice. ( read the lease I can), and legally he said he has 5 days to pay the rent, anyways I am trying to resolve the issue with them but seems he is always looking to start more trouble.

So not sure if I should charge them late fees for september rent since I really used the last month rent but its not intended for that or even now if I can charge them September fees since i used last month rent temporarily.

Would you charge them fees for September and October or how would you handle this? 

Afraid if i charge them late fees about $250 it will be just to much to handle for them and really screw me over, damage the place, and make me evict them.

If it was a better time of the year I defiantly would have evicted them but with winter coming and oil heat the place is going to sit a couple of months and i will need to pay to heat it, plus not to mention the $400 in court fees I would need to pay. I am willing to ride it another week to see if they give me any money but if not I will file for eviction.

How would you handle this, this has been 1 of my worse experiences as a landlord in 4 years and not really sure how to handle this.....

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Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 268 posts · 162 votes
11y

I would have started the eviction last month. Say little. Do not try to "be right". Complete the eviction and get them out asap. People who have just been arrested are not the most friendly. Avoid talking or communicating with them. Just get them out, politely but professionally. ANYTHING he says is bluster to con you into another free month of rent. Do not talk to them, just evict them. 

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  • Investor · Edmond, OK · Member since 2011 · 166 posts · 31 votes
    11y

    I would definitely choose letting them leave with their deposit. It may hurt to "let them win", but you're saving money and getting them the heck out of your property. I wouldn't let your pride get in the way of a rational decision. Chalk this up to a learning lesson. I just went through a similar situation not long ago, and like you, was kicking myself for being nice. Now you know how to handle it next time!

  • Real Estate Investor · Milford, PA · Member since 2014 · 395 posts · 299 votes
    11y

    The school of hard knocks.  We have all attended it at one time or another.  The main objective here it to get rid of your tenant as quickly and with as little damage to your property as possible.  If you get your property "back" in good shape then did you really loose that $500.  After this is all over do an after action recap of what happen what  you could have done differently.  Use this as an experience to help you bulletproof your business.  You will bounce back from this.

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jimmy S.:

    update

    court hearing is 31st. attorney said 2 ways to play it and tenant agreed.

    Give tenant security deposit back $1100  minus the water/sewer bill  (around $150) and they will vacate the premiss on the 29th before the court date

    or 

    take them to court spend $600 in attorney fees and court eviction paperwork and keep the $1100 but tenant can do alot more damage and will not be gone till November 15th - 25th. attorney said its a easy win and will get judgement but no money because they have none

    so it comes down to $500 loss for getting my property back 2 or 3 weeks earlier and knowing they wont do any more damaged.

    I am leaning towards giving security back and letting them win but they will not get a penny till attorney says its ok and they have vacated the property and did not cause any more damage, sucks but either way I lose 

    which option would you choose?

     Nate:

    I would pitch a slight variation.  Tell them you will return their deposit ... give them half up-front and tell them the other half will follow if the place is clean and un-damaged when you do your exit inspection with them (bring a witness with you both times).

  • Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes
    11y

    You've received a ton of solid info so I wont beat a dead horse too much. Your original post was enough for me to file for eviction quickly.

    One thing I really look at when screening tenants is their demeanor. Obviously this a "gut feeling" item for the most part. I don't want to rent to anyone who I feel will give me attitude. I treat everyone I deal with respectfully, even while I'm evicting them, and I expect the same in return. The minute this guy cussed at you and was verbally aggressive is the moment where you have to be able to make the decision that the best thing for you and your property is to get them out.

    Back to screening. In order to avoid many of these people, I pass on those with any kind of violent charges against. Domestic calls, battery etc.

    Also on the repairs....if you haven't found a solid handyman skilled in pretty much all trades Id really make an effort to do so. I would think you could find someone who fits the bill for no more than around $25-30/hr. Ask other investors in your area for referrals. My guy is amazing and Id hire him full time if I could.

    Best of luck and keep us updated.

  • Investor · lehigh valley, PA · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    thanks everyone for the help and advice. I have learned many things and just hoping they will go peaceful and leave on the 29th like we agree upon and I will give them their security back. They will not get a penny till they sign the lease termination agreement and hand over the keys and all there stuff is gone. 

    When we sign the paper do I need to have a witness or should this be done in the attorneys office? My attorney I could not get ahold of this afternoon.

    Yesterday I receive a phone call from the the borough/zoning/ health department over this sink issue and the police. Apparently they called them on me and reported me, go figure, but it did not surprise me. The tenants are very smart and always seem to be one step ahead of me to make me look like the bad guy. Borough is threatening me to fix the sink or I will be fined $1000, sink is getting fixed Thursday, I will keep everyone updated.

  • Real Estate Investor · Fort Pierce, FL · Member since 2014 · 132 posts · 57 votes
    11y

    Wow, I hope things get better for you.  It sounds like you have been going through the wringer.  I would like to say that everything you do needs to be legally correct, they might try to push your buttons to get a reaction out of you.  Always have a witness, you should probably have your phone recording everything as well if it is legal.

  • Investor · lehigh valley, PA · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    update

    hopefully if ever thing goes well they will be gone tomorrow night. I will be giving there security back minus the water/sewer bill. $1000ish

    We have a signed contract stating that the front door and carpet upstairs needs to be fixed in order to get their security back (well they blackmailed me which might not be the worst to get their security back) Well I highly doubt they will fix it, but I want them gone. Is it worth saying anything to them that I will need to hire some one now and take it out of there security. If I piss them off more.... they might just not leave and make me follow threw with the eviction and get another 3 or 4 weeks for free rent.

    Would you mention anything and try to get some money back or just be glad there gone and forget about it. They cost me thousands so not sure if its even worth it for a couple hundred bucks to complain about...

  • St Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 575 posts · 408 votes
    11y

    The consistent message here is get them out as quickly as possible with as little grief as possible. Damage to the front door and to carpet seems minor compared with the prospect of letting the cash for keys deal break down and having these characters in your property for one minute longer than need be. They need to go now, other issues are secondary.

  • Investor · lehigh valley, PA · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 23 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Stephen E.:

    The consistent message here is get them out as quickly as possible with as little grief as possible. Damage to the front door and to carpet seems minor compared with the prospect of letting the cash for keys deal break down and having these characters in your property for one minute longer than need be. They need to go now, other issues are secondary.

     that's what I was thinking also but am so mad at them for screwing me over and all the stress and aggravation and money they cost me over the last 3 or 4 weeks. 

    Guess I can just consider it a win IF they leave tomorrow.

  • Real Estate Investor · Milford, PA · Member since 2014 · 395 posts · 299 votes
    11y

    @Jimmy S.   said it perfect. In case you didn't hear him

    The consistent message here is get them out as quickly as possible 

    Take our advice, don't let emotion take you over. The quicker you end this the more money Time and grief you save. 

    NOW DO IT!!!

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    You have already gone back-and-forth too much.  As everyone has said, you probably should have filed sooner.  But that is past.

    What continues is that you aren't setting aside your emotions and doing business.  I would have agreed to them leaving in return for their SD 10 days ago.  At the very least, don't let the deal break down over mending some carpet.

  • St Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 575 posts · 408 votes
    11y

    @Nate M.

    You write that you could consider it a 'win' if they leave tomorrow. At this stage there are no winners. There is something an old friend and law school professor told me once about the law: he said everyone that once you are in the legal system you are a loser, the only question is how much you lose. When you make a deal with these people you minimise your loss. The job now it to get them out, repair and advertise the unit, and get new, decent tenants in ASAP. Be sure that you screen your new tenants well to avoid further drama.

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 10 votes
    11y

    Wow this is quite a sobering story. 

    What kind of background check did you do when they applied for the apartment? Are there steps that landlords can take to minimize the change of this happening to them? Is it reasonable to never allow any tenants with prior evictions/legal issues?

  • Investor · lehigh valley, PA · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 23 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Vik C.:

    Wow this is quite a sobering story. 

    What kind of background check did you do when they applied for the apartment? Are there steps that landlords can take to minimize the change of this happening to them? Is it reasonable to never allow any tenants with prior evictions/legal issues?

     I checked with their landlord and verified and contacted both their employers. Everyone said good things about them, go figure.

    I will update everyone tomorrow and let you know the outcome......

  • Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    The main lessons here are

    1. Screen properly

    2. Have reserves

    3. If you don't have iron thick skin, let a PM deal with low income rentals.

  • Investor · lehigh valley, PA · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    update

    THEY ARE GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! boy it has been a crazy ride. They left today and locks are changed.

    Time to fix all the damage and move on. Thanks everyone for all the help and support along this painful, stressful, emotional roller coaster ride.

    I have learned ALOTTTT and looking back now I would have done things so differently now and if I ever have to deal with this again I will be prepared.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    Congratulations on getting them OUT!   I think from the time you first posted you have made out the best you could given the situation.  I wish you luck on the re-rent. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2010 · 499 posts · 206 votes
    11y

    Nate,

    I'm happy for you.  Don't let this get you down.  Go on and be successful! 

    I recently had a tenant move out and tell me to go F*** myself.  It was upsetting, but we can't let these losers get us down.

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