Help! I have a "High Maintenance" Tenant

Help! I have a "High Maintenance" Tenant

Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 198 posts · 25 votes

Background:

I have a tenant who has been renting for about 10 months.  She is a retired probation officer and currently works part-time with one of local city governments in the traffic court division.  When she first moved in she had a laundry list of items she wanted repaired.  For the first 2-3 months of her occupancy I received a weekly email asking for something new to be fixed/repairs/replaced, etc.  Granted, I'm on the high end as far as rent and amenities in the area...ie-stainless steel appliances, hardwood floors, granite countertops.

First, it was the tub reglaze paint was chipped and she felt it was a health hazard and would get in her "woman parts."  She asked that I reglaze the tub.  I denied her request to reglaze the tub.  

Then, she said the stainless steel oven stovetop was bent causing her gas burner to cook her food unevenly.  This was SUPER important since the beautiful kitchen was one of the main reasons she rented my unit and wanted it fixed because she cooks a lot.

Then the kitchen sink pull down/out faucet would toggle between a shower sray and stream spray. I replaced the whole faucet for her

Next, she wanted a laundry room washer drain stack installed (I've owned the building for two years and everyone just runs the washer drain hose to the drain in the floor).  She stated it was not in code to not have one. I denied her request stating I've passed multiple occupancy inspections and this has never been an issue.  The building is over 60 years old.

She pulled the ceiling fan chain out.  She wanted a brand new fan...my handyman replaced the broken chain.

Last month, she dropped a wine bottle on the kitchen tile floor damaging two tiles. She would like them replaced, but she takes responsibility.

She complained that I didn't have the snow removed quick enough last week citing in her lease that I'm responsible for it's removal.

Now I receive two separate email with the attached pictures. One of the plaster/drywall/skim coat cracking or falling off above the shower tile.  And another email requesting that I reglaze the tub...again citing health concerns due to the paint chips when she takes a bath.

She has literally almost had a maintenance concern almost every month.  She has access to lawyers doing her part-time work in the city courts.  How to our deal with her without going broke honoring all her repair request.  I pride myself on being a very responsive and great landlord, but at some point it's just a rental and an investment I intend to make money one.

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Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 10 votes
11y

I'm going to be the one to rock the boat here.  

For the tub:  Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and buy a nice respirator.  Knock on the door and go to inspect the tub.   Hand her the respirator and let her know she will have to wear that while she is in the unit for at least 72 hours and the tub people will be there in the morning, unless she's not comfortable with the mask.   Proceed to touch up the tub with appliance repair epoxy.  It actually matches and is durable.  No lady-part damage.   I've had to do something similar in the past.  

The stove:  it doesn't cook unevenly, she does.  Spin the pan, Rachel Ray.  

If all else fails, exercise the Happy Clause.  Let her move out with no penalty and full deposit back, minus any damage (like the tile floor).  That usually puts a stop to the nitpicking.  

Some people just can't help but to be a pain in the ***.  They're not happy until you're not happy.  And they're still unhappy.  Once in a while you have to fight fire with fire and just be a jerk.  There is a difference between being a great, responsive landlord and a concierge.  You're about halfway there. She's training you.

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  • Real Estate Agent · Beverly, MA · Member since 2013 · 353 posts · 93 votes
    11y

    @Rick L. 

    I recommend tiling above the tub surround to prevent more damage in the future.  I always tile above the tub surround on all of my rentals and rehabs, and have never had an issue.  If you decide not to tile, be sure to at least use greenboard/moisture resistant board, as most older homes have regular drywall in the bathrooms.

  • Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 10 votes
    11y

    I'm going to be the one to rock the boat here.  

    For the tub:  Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and buy a nice respirator.  Knock on the door and go to inspect the tub.   Hand her the respirator and let her know she will have to wear that while she is in the unit for at least 72 hours and the tub people will be there in the morning, unless she's not comfortable with the mask.   Proceed to touch up the tub with appliance repair epoxy.  It actually matches and is durable.  No lady-part damage.   I've had to do something similar in the past.  

    The stove:  it doesn't cook unevenly, she does.  Spin the pan, Rachel Ray.  

    If all else fails, exercise the Happy Clause.  Let her move out with no penalty and full deposit back, minus any damage (like the tile floor).  That usually puts a stop to the nitpicking.  

    Some people just can't help but to be a pain in the ***.  They're not happy until you're not happy.  And they're still unhappy.  Once in a while you have to fight fire with fire and just be a jerk.  There is a difference between being a great, responsive landlord and a concierge.  You're about halfway there. She's training you.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Richlands, NC · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    You are receiving a lot of good advice.  I can come close to agree with @Mike F. and @Mark Ainley.  

    What would be the cost of addressing all her concerns? 

    How long would it take to have the place rented again? And what are the associated cost of getting it ready?  If she pays her rent on time but makes a lot of complaints.  Weigh all these things and see what makes best sense for your business and make a decision.  Also, as previously mention; I would most certainly raise her rent by at least 10%.  Don't be spiteful, nurture your business with best practices.

  • Jason BurrPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2012 · 161 posts · 75 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Aly W.:

    I would tell her I don't renovate, just repair. And the cracked paint/skim coat above the shower can definitely get worse with humidity if you don't repair it.

    The shower glaze - no. We have a couple of units in the same condition, and it's noted on the lease when they do the walkthrough. They are not held responsible, but we will not reglaze during their tenancy; at least not for a couple of years unless it gets worse.

    For breaking the tiles, she would have to pay for the repair.

    If her lease is ending in 2 months, simply don't renew it. Fix the stove, the skim coat and consider glazing the tub for the next tenant, but clearly this tenant is just looking for things to complain about and it won't end. Give her the proper notice and say goodbye.

    I agree with Aly, give her notice that when her lease expires you will not be renewing. I have had these types before and you can't please them.  There are too many good folks out there to put up with her.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 451 posts · 369 votes
    11y

    Your sanity is more valuable than the cost to turn this place over, give her the proper notice that her lease won't be renewed. Some people are just miserable human beings.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    The poster said he was leasing at top market rents. A renter would expect things to be in top shape for top dollar. If it was a crap hole and below market rents that would be a different story.

    What this comes down to is if you get the existing tenant out will you be able to get top market rents with all the issues sited?? It's probably a no on that.

    Did this tenant sign a move in condition form noting any problems and they were accepting in current condition??

    On food I am a foodie. People need to keep stuff out of the microwave. Those things are so toxic people have no idea.

    Cook fresh and took away all the preservatives and chemicals.  

  • Lender · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 537 posts · 228 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Baxter Stegall:

    Let her move out with no penalty and full deposit back, minus any damage

    This is what I would do.  Tell her that you are doing what you can.  If she is not happy, let her know she is welcome to move anytime.  You are not holding her hostage.

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 451 posts · 369 votes
    11y

    @Joel Owens If we were talking relatively higher end real estate that the renter was paying $3K+ per month I would agree with you that anything out of place should be dealt with promptly. However, I suspect the case here is that we're talking maybe the renter is paying a max of $100-200 per month over market value. I'm not sure how frequently you deal with tenants, but if you have one tenant that occupies more of your time & energy than the rest of your portfolio combined, it is well worth it to get rid of them.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    Hi Greg,

    I like strip centers now. Over 20 tenants with multifamily before. Every investor just has different standards. The condition of the tubs and ceilings is something that just to me is a standard of care issue. If you have low income units where everyone lives like an animal then I get it.

    I don't do anything with low income. I don't want the drama and I don't care what the extra yield is.   

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 451 posts · 369 votes
    11y

    @Joel Owens Interesting, I'm becoming more fascinated with retail as time goes on. I have an uncle who is one of the top retail brokers in Central/North Jersey. There are many more moving parts to analyze & play with, this is all one big game after all. You also get to interact with some truly wealthy people, making the game all the more fascinating.

    I'm with you on avoiding lower income, I don't want to touch anything under $100K/door. I was just postulating that since this tenant is a retired probation officer, we probably aren't dealing with higher end residential, just an unsavvy tenant who's paying slightly above market but thinks she is the center of the world.

  • Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Bryan N.  brings up a good point earlier in this thread.

  • Rental Property Investor · Charlotte NC Fort Mill SC Lake Wylie SC, SC · Member since 2009 · 174 posts · 103 votes
    11y

    I have 3-year tenants who were PITA at the start.  I totally rehabbed the house they live in, and it's one of my nicest houses in Charlotte.  Being that the house had previously been vacant many years, and they were my first tenants in the house, I expected some repair calls.  But things started to get out of hand.  And some issues were being caused by them, like when they'd overload a circuit with several high-draw electronics and such.  Even though I'd re-wired the entire house, circuits have their limits. 

    Anywho... what did I do?  I made an appointment to visit and walk the entire property to make note of her concerns.  I brought the move-in inspection and photos from our initial walk-through.  Some items were things we'd made note of just so she wouldn't be held responsible, but that we wouldn't repair/replace for now (cosmetic stuff).  A few items truly were things that I would want fixed, and we made arrangements to fix them.  The remaining items... well she was complaining that there were too many leaves in her backyard. 'Dear Tenant, you have several enormous and beautiful trees that I paid a tree expert to carefully limb up and cut back away from the house.  You saw those trees and admired them when you were viewing the property.  I can do nothing about them."  Another is little lizards hanging around the warm sunny brick entryway. She said she's afraid they'll give her a heart attack. [insert the I've-reached-my-limit emoji.]  I said, "dear tenant, welcome to NC. We have cute little lizards who love warm sunny bricks. They are 100% harmless.  I cannot do anything about them. They're actually helpful because they eat lots of bugs! This is a phobia, and outside of my realm of expertise.  She didn't appear too happy about that, but what could I do? 

    In the end, I laid out what I would and wouldn't do, and I said to her, if you are not happy with that, I would be happy to let you out of your lease, without penalty against your security deposit--I ask only that you give me 60 days notice.  I thought for sure she'd go for it, but instead she said, "oh, no, miss Terri!  I love my house!  I don't want to move."  She is otherwise an excellent tenant who takes meticulous care of the property, so I continue to go above and beyond for her a little bit, and I'm happy to do it. 

    You've gotten a lot of great advice on here already. Maybe my 2 cents helps. I wouldn't use any scare tactics about fumes and such.  Maybe do a touch-up with epoxy paint.  Definitely address the moisture issue in the bath--this is for the sake of your property, long term. Do whatever you must to install a good exhaust fan, wired to the light switch. Tenants aren't going to open windows to let the moist air out. If she broke the tile, she can either live with it that way or arrange to have it repaired herself, IMHO. Or maybe you can get it done for her later on, at your leisure, but you will charge her.  Don't say you'll take it out of the security deposit--get a couple of quotes from tile installers, and show her the estimates. Once she sees what it will cost HER she's likely to back down.

    Hope to have been of help.

  • Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes
    11y

    @Rick L.  The best thing to do is make sure everything is in good working order before the tenant moves in. That means that you test everything thoroughly and do all the work in a professional manner i.e. no shoddy work or short-cuts.  Adopting the mindset that this is "...only a rental..." can lead to problems.  

    In this case, it looks like the tub was not properly reglazed to begin with and the area above the shower was not properly addressed.  Are these plaster walls?  The bulge is odd shaped and doesn't seem to be drywall. What is the underlying cause?  Skimming over it will not fix it if that isn't addressed. 

    Her requests don't sound unreasonable to me. You replaced the kitchen faucet so that's good. If something is bent on the stove, why not fix it?  The washing machine draining into the floor and not through a standpipe might be a code violation/health concern and certainly should be assessed by a plumber.  Why not do that?

    The bottom line is: owning and managing rental properties is largely a service business. It costs money and takes a lot of effort to do it right.  You would not accept a restaurant or auto repair business to compromise on things because of their bottom line.  If you don't have the money, willingness or time to do it right, then it might not be the right business for you.  Something to think about...  

  • Flipper · Port Deposit, MD · Member since 2014 · 280 posts · 171 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Baxter Stegall:

    The stove:  it doesn't cook unevenly, she does.  Spin the pan, Rachel Ray.  

     I literally laughed out loud.

  • Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes
    11y

    I've been pondering this and now lean towards:  Just fix it all.  It all really Does need to be fixed - it's not really as though she i asking for anything beyond what would be considered a normal-expectation:  That the bathtub not be falling apart.  The walls not be falling apart.  The stove be suitable to cook on.  I don't know what she asked for in the past - but these things seem quite reasonable to me.  I would certainly expect to have them if I were a tenant.

    My bottom line is this:  The things really do need to be done.  If she stays or if she leaves the repairs are still required.  So if it were me;   I would fix them for Her and save the vacancy cost and hassle.

    Now granted;  I am not there and I can't gauge the situation beyond what you've told me.  But based on that - I'd do the repairs and keep the tenant.

    stephen
    ---------------

     Originally posted by @Rick L.:

    Background:

    I have a tenant who has been renting for about 10 months.  She is a retired probation officer and currently works part-time with one of local city governments in the traffic court division.  When she first moved in she had a laundry list of items she wanted repaired.  For the first 2-3 months of her occupancy I received a weekly email asking for something new to be fixed/repairs/replaced, etc.  Granted, I'm on the high end as far as rent and amenities in the area...ie-stainless steel appliances, hardwood floors, granite countertops.

    First, it was the tub reglaze paint was chipped and she felt it was a health hazard and would get in her "woman parts."  She asked that I reglaze the tub.  I denied her request to reglaze the tub.  

    Then, she said the stainless steel oven stovetop was bent causing her gas burner to cook her food unevenly.  This was SUPER important since the beautiful kitchen was one of the main reasons she rented my unit and wanted it fixed because she cooks a lot.

    Then the kitchen sink pull down/out faucet would toggle between a shower sray and stream spray. I replaced the whole faucet for her

    Next, she wanted a laundry room washer drain stack installed (I've owned the building for two years and everyone just runs the washer drain hose to the drain in the floor).  She stated it was not in code to not have one. I denied her request stating I've passed multiple occupancy inspections and this has never been an issue.  The building is over 60 years old.

    She pulled the ceiling fan chain out.  She wanted a brand new fan...my handyman replaced the broken chain.

    Last month, she dropped a wine bottle on the kitchen tile floor damaging two tiles. She would like them replaced, but she takes responsibility.

    She complained that I didn't have the snow removed quick enough last week citing in her lease that I'm responsible for it's removal.

    Now I receive two separate email with the attached pictures. One of the plaster/drywall/skim coat cracking or falling off above the shower tile.  And another email requesting that I reglaze the tub...again citing health concerns due to the paint chips when she takes a bath.

    She has literally almost had a maintenance concern almost every month.  She has access to lawyers doing her part-time work in the city courts.  How to our deal with her without going broke honoring all her repair request.  I pride myself on being a very responsive and great landlord, but at some point it's just a rental and an investment I intend to make money one.

  • Stephens City, VA · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 0 votes
    11y

    Agree with most of the posts here I read. But just say good bye at the end of this one (Aly L).

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    On the washer draining into the floor is this the tenants washer and dryer or landlord provided?

    For the washer a minimum is usually the hot and cold lines in a wall behind it with a box with the discharge line in the middle.

    Their are multiple issues with washers and dryers. The first item with the washers is connecting up. Tenants and landlord tend to use old hoses that burst or that do not connect up properly. The washing machines tend to be old and the threads are reamed out. This is why we would connect up for the tenant. We would use steel braided flex hoses and put thread sealant tape on before tightening. The reason is the threads get worn out and no matter how hard you tighten it will still leak. The thread tape fills the grooves so when you tighten down there is no leak. Do not over tighten as well. Over tightening on plumbing can break the washer seals and cause a leak between the washer connect and the hose.

    There is nothing against a drain line in the floor but it needs to be a direct connect secondary. The floor drain might not be tied in directly to a dedicated discharge line like it's supposed to. You put an overflow tray under the washer in case it breaks and leaks. You have a regular discharge line in the wall and then under the floor where you can't see it connects with the floor drain line. This is more important especially if the washer is upstairs as water can come down ruining the ceiling if you do not have some type of floor drain system when a leak occurs. The discharge line going into the box you use an eyelet strap screw in next to the box. This keeps the discharge line from backing up out of the discharge pipe and water going everywhere. Make sure before connecting your hot and cold lines to connect to are not rusted out or leaking as you will have water in the walls even if your hoses are correct. The on to off new connectors are better because tenants can't over tighten turning on or off it's just one movement to close or open.

    The dryer the vent hose needs to be a high quality as you do not want breaks and the lint starts building up in the washer/dryer room. That can cause a fire hazard. Make sure the vent ducting in the walls is not disconnected before it reaches the outside and that it is not being improperly vented somewhere into the walls or the house. You can install a lint trap box in the washer/dryer room to be cleaned out easily so it doesn't back up.

    We used to leave maintenance up to tenants but found out they just screw it up or do not do it at all. The maintenance gives a chance to make sure no unauthorized people or pets are living in the property and keeps the tenants on their toes.

    No legal advice given. 

  • Interior Decorator · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 35 votes
    11y

    Hello,

    With tenants like her is why investors need property managers.  I can understand not hiring one if you live close to your investment property to save money, but she seems like the type of tenant that would drain all your positive energy.

    I would find out exactly what you are responsible for legally and send her an email stating, "Landlord Responsibilities." If you don't set boundaries as soon as possible, then your allowing her to control the situation.  It's not your responsibility to fix the tile floor that she cracked.  It's up to her to find a tile contractor to come and fix the damage and pay for it.  

    Did she sign a lease agreement? In my lease agreement, I state that once they sign the lease they are accepting all conditions that the condo, or home is in.  Meaning, you fix everything before she signs the lease, then once he or she signs it, then anything that goes wrong from that day forward is there responsibility to take care of; unless it is a major disaster.

    In the past I stated to my tenants, "I will not raise your rent if you can take care of minor situations, but if you call me for every little thing, then I will have no choice but to raise the rent." The tenant's I have like this arrangement, because they can count on a fixed rent, they end up staying longer, and they take better care of my property. 

    People like her are always trying to get things done for free. If she thinks you may raise her rent because of all the time and maintenance you are spending on her unit, she will think twice about calling you.

    Even nice people have to put their foot down sometimes. Lol

    Good luck. You seem like a nice landlord.

    Melissa

  • Wholesaler · Westminster, CO · Member since 2013 · 224 posts · 77 votes
    11y

    Time to let the tenant know that you will not be renewing their lease provide a 30-60 day notice in writing.  You have a choice and if you have a high maintenance tenant then it is time to let them go.  After they move out then do your repairs as if it is a higher end unit. 

    I have had some needy tenants as well - this is broke, that is not right etc; and it becomes very difficult to manage because they became used to getting what they want.  After 3 years of them being there, I raised their rent $100 per month.  They asked me why such a large increase?  I told them with all the fixes/repairs I was doing to the property and the fair market rent the unit can now rent for more money per month. (Yes I have had annual increases of $25-$30 per month - but this large increase encouraged them enough to move on their own accord.) 

    I hope this helps, and good luck with these tenants!

  • Investor · Latonia, KY · Member since 2012 · 107 posts · 50 votes
    11y

    Just fix what you need to in order to rerent it and don't renew the lease. 

  • Philly Area, PA · Member since 2008 · 297 posts · 27 votes
    11y
    Don't renew, that's your best option. Roc

    Originally posted by @Mark Ainley:

    @rick 

    @Rick L. undefined

    Rick L. My experience with a tenant like this is don't challenge her. I would simply follow thru with the lease and give her 60 day notice that you will not be renewing and maybe even tell her you or a family member wil be moving in next so she doesn't take it as an insult even though you are getting rid of her cause she is a pain. Better not to be honest in this case.  

    I would get a better exhaust for the bathroom too cause that isn't normal.  

  • Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    11y

    let her keep on asking..you just keep replying the same thing ,all you do is "repair if broken". she will get tired of hearing it.  she will stop asking eventually.

    in the meantime , raise her rent substansially when lease is up for renewal.

    you have to get paid for all the agita she's putting you through.

    if she wants to move, that's fine. 

    Teach her how you run things.

  • Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 62 posts · 40 votes
    11y

    I had tenants like this too! I agree with the other posters, fix the skim coat, be frank with her and give her whatever notice is required that you will not be renewing her lease. My tenant was a former Marine, with his wife and two kids. They complained that the refrigerator was too loud. That the towel rack in the bathroom was loose and needed a screw tightened (I wanted to tell them where they had a screw loose!), etc. I kind of shamed they guy and asked what kind of a Marine can't tighten a screw and told them they would be charged for additional requests that were beyond the safe,adequate housing provided. Heat, electric, proper plumbing, no leaks etc. Good luck to you!

  • Real Estate Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 785 posts · 190 votes
    11y

    I have had PITA tenants, which is why I moved largely towards seller financed properties. I prefer not being a landlord. This works quite well in TX, cannot say how it would work in other markets. I'd love to know if others have been successful in seller financing in their states rather than renting the properties out. Something nice about just getting cash flow without the repair calls! 

  • Investor · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2014 · 96 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    I think you’ve done a pretty good job of holding the line. The main problem for me in these situations is the sight of that email in my inbox and the feeling that I’m being nagged. I’ve had very similar tenant situations, which had a similar trajectory — daily requests at first, then monthly, then eventually spreading out even more.

    Here’s my two cents:
    Tenants like this often take very good care of the property.
    Many tenants have the attitude, “It can’t hurt to ask.” So they always ask.  You just have to say no a lot.
    As you’ve been doing, prioritize tasks that need attention according to your needs, not hers. i.e., safety, property value, etc. Many minor repairs can be deferred indefinitely without jeopardizing habitability.
    Even if she has access to lawyers, most decent lawyers aren’t keen on filing frivolous lawsuits.
    Try not to let it get to you. ; )
    Don’t renew her lease if you really can’t stand it. Sometimes a steady rent check is worth the trade off of dealing with a tenant’s personality. Sometimes it just isn’t .

    I truly feel your pain and wish you the best of luck!

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