Anatomy of an Eviction

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Anatomy of an Eviction

Linda WeygantPro Member
Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

My tenants haven't paid their rent since July.  I know, I'm too soft-hearted for this business, but I'm becoming less so, trust me.  

After they broke their 5th (6th?) promise on Friday, I served them with a 3 day notice on Monday.  She sent me an email begging me to work with her, swearing that she'll pay me everything she owes me on December 1.

For those of you playing at home, that's no rent for 2 1/2 months (owing since August 1) and her proposal of another 1 1/2 months of no rent.  

I told her no.

When they moved in in July, we had set up a payment plan for their security deposit (I know...  for those of you rolling your eyes at me at home, I get it).  They paid $200.

So I made her on offer via email that if they moved out by Saturday (the 24th), and left the place in good repair and clean, I'd give her the $200 back and I wouldn't take them to court and collect the back rent.  But she needed to just leave.  (Cash for keys...)  Hated making the offer, but I know it would cost me more to do an eviction.  I told her the offer was good for 24 hours only and she needed to accept it within that 24 hours in order for me to honor it.

She called me, but I let the calls go to voice mail as I believe all communications should be documented going forward.  Her voice mails were basically her begging me to work with her.  She did not accept my offer.  I did not return her calls.

Some states have a provision for the owners of an LLC to represent the LLC in court. Others do not - the LLC must hire an attorney. I haven't been able to get a definitive answer on that for Colorado, so I called the county court office today. The clerk there seemed to think I could represent myself pro se in eviction court. When I stressed to her that it is an LLC that owns the property, she back pedaled a bit and so I still don't know.

I contacted an eviction attorney and he gave me some great advice on my lease for the next time (worth an hour of his time right there). He's going to pull down the actual statute and send it to me. If it turns out I can represent the LLC, then I'll pay the attorney for his research time and then pay him later to do a full on review of my lease - something I should have done in the beginning. If I can't represent the LLC, then I'll hire him. Either way, he gets paid.

Stay tuned, I'll fill you guys in on how this goes.

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Marcia Maynard
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y

So they moved in July of this year? Haven't paid rent since paying their initial rent payment in July? You obtained only a partial security deposit? What kind of screening process did you use. Did you do a background check prior to offering to rent to them? Have they played this game before? Are you new to landlording?

About communicating by email... are you sure she received the email with your offer? Did she reference your email and your offer in her telephone call to you? Why wouldn't you respond to her, at least to let her know you received her phone call and to reiterate your position?

By all means, hire a qualified attorney who specializes in landlord-tenant law to do the entire eviction process for you. Watch on the sidelines and learn how it's done. Regardless if you rented the premises in the name of an LLC or not, it doesn't sound wise to do this one on your own. Could be a professional tenant and/or a tenant who will run to get representation from legal aid.

If they don't accept your offer by the end of today, will you file for unlawful detainer with the court tomorrow (Friday)? If they accept your offer and don't move-out over the weekend, will you file for unlawful detainer with the court on Monday? 

Then what? What will you do to protect your interests and your property from damages in the meantime? If the tenant is responsible for paying utilities, check to see if they are current with their utility bills. Do a periodic inspection of the premises to see if they are in compliance with other aspects of the rental agreement. Serve a legal notice to enter and bring someone with you as a witness. Document your findings with photos and in writing. When things are going down, watch your property like a hawk.

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  • David Dachtera
    Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    Yes! By all means! Keep us posted!

    This could be one of those great learning opportunities for lurkers and active members alike.

    0Reply
  • Travis Sperr
    Lender · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 597 votes
    10y

    Please don't represent yourself - hire an attorney to handle the entire process - too much room for error and the cost of an eviction is less than $400 in this market. Also file that eviction today. Unfortunately the eviction is only the beginning of the process as I am sure the unit is going to need some love. 

    3 day notices posted on the 5th of every month regardless of the circumstance, you can always not follow through immediately but it gets the process started.

    Best of luck on this one.

    6Reply
  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    Thank you @Linda Weygant and thanks for the experience. It will help others.

    0Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    See, now that she sees you're more serious, suddenly she wants to make things right. But actions speak louder than words.

    In your county/state, can you accept partial payments and still continue with the eviction process until it's all paid? That is a good piece of info to know. Because if she starts sending you what she can when she can, you need to know if you can accept it or not.

    Like someone mentioned, it might be worth it for you to let the attorney handle this one this time even if you can represent your own LLC. Learn and study all the rental laws and be prepared for the next time....but next time you won't wait months. You will file as soon as it's late. They learn that they save money by paying on time. When they're late, they pay late fees and reimburse you for court costs (assuming that's in your lease).

    5Reply
  • Marcia Maynard
    Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    So they moved in July of this year? Haven't paid rent since paying their initial rent payment in July? You obtained only a partial security deposit? What kind of screening process did you use. Did you do a background check prior to offering to rent to them? Have they played this game before? Are you new to landlording?

    About communicating by email... are you sure she received the email with your offer? Did she reference your email and your offer in her telephone call to you? Why wouldn't you respond to her, at least to let her know you received her phone call and to reiterate your position?

    By all means, hire a qualified attorney who specializes in landlord-tenant law to do the entire eviction process for you. Watch on the sidelines and learn how it's done. Regardless if you rented the premises in the name of an LLC or not, it doesn't sound wise to do this one on your own. Could be a professional tenant and/or a tenant who will run to get representation from legal aid.

    If they don't accept your offer by the end of today, will you file for unlawful detainer with the court tomorrow (Friday)? If they accept your offer and don't move-out over the weekend, will you file for unlawful detainer with the court on Monday? 

    Then what? What will you do to protect your interests and your property from damages in the meantime? If the tenant is responsible for paying utilities, check to see if they are current with their utility bills. Do a periodic inspection of the premises to see if they are in compliance with other aspects of the rental agreement. Serve a legal notice to enter and bring someone with you as a witness. Document your findings with photos and in writing. When things are going down, watch your property like a hawk.

    7Reply
  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    One thing I guess I didn't mention, for those of you who are concerned about me doing this myself...

    I worked for a collection agency for 3 years and, due to special collection laws in Colorado for consumer collections, certain employees could represent the firm in court.  I was one of them.  So I understand court processes and paperwork and crossing I's and dotting T's.  I understand about proof and paperwork and presenting evidence, etc. 

    I am hyper aware of proper process service and totally understand the rest of this scene from start to finish. My only question was whether I could represent my own LLC.

    @Nicole A. - excellent question.  I will find this out and be aware of it.

    @Marcia Maynard - I'm not new to landlording, but I broke every rule in the book on this one.  These are two sisters who I did a thorough background check on.  Crappy credit, short term jobs - the whole nine yards.  But one of them pulled that "I'm trying to leave an abusive relationship" story, and I melted.  Yep - made a totally emotional decision.  Don't get me wrong - I'm not whining about this situation.  I put myself in it and I went in with eyes wide open.  You won't see me posting about how I got taken advantage of or how I didn't have systems in place or even how the system failed me.  This is my mistake, pure and simple.  I let my heart make a decision that I should have left to my head.

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Marcia Maynard:

    So they moved in July of this year? Haven't paid rent since paying their initial rent payment in July? You obtained only a partial security deposit? What kind of screening process did you use. Did you do a background check prior to offering to rent to them? Have they played this game before? Are you new to landlording?

    Correct - they moved in in July and haven't paid a dime since the initial payment.  I only collected a partial deposit.  I used MySmartMove and it pulled up terrible credit for both of them.  See my post above about my attitude about it all.  I don't know if they played the game before.  For the one that was leaving the abusive relationship, I couldn't call current landlord as she lived with her husband in a house he owned.  For the other, her landlord and job references all came out ok.

    About communicating by email... are you sure she received the email with your offer?

    Yes, I'm sure she received it.  She referenced it in her voice mail that she left.  This is why I want all further communication to be something tangible.  Otherwise, I would have no proof to show the judge that she received the email.

    Did she reference your email and your offer in her telephone call to you? Why wouldn't you respond to her, at least to let her know you received her phone call and to reiterate your position?

    I want all communications going forward to be something I can show to the court.  When I worked at the collection agency, all calls were recorded and were frequently used during court.  I lack the ability to record calls easily, so I feel that the next best thing is being able to play voice mails to the judge, should it come to that.  Testimony that the judge can see or hear for him/herself is much more powerful than me recounting a phone conversation.

    By all means, hire a qualified attorney who specializes in landlord-tenant law to do the entire eviction process for you. Watch on the sidelines and learn how it's done. Regardless if you rented the premises in the name of an LLC or not, it doesn't sound wise to do this one on your own. Could be a professional tenant and/or a tenant who will run to get representation from legal aid.

    If they don't accept your offer by the end of today, will you file for unlawful detainer with the court tomorrow (Friday)? If they accept your offer and don't move-out over the weekend, will you file for unlawful detainer with the court on Monday?

    They had until Tuesday at noon to accept or reject.  They did not accept.  The three day notice period expires tomorrow.  If they leave a voice mail or send an email saying they want to accept, I'll still go through with it, but after I file tomorrow I will start incurring court costs, so it's no deal after that.

    I've got all the paperwork printed out and double checked.  I's dotted, T's crossed.  Lease copy attached, copy of 3 day notice attached, and emails printed out - they won't be part of the original filing, but I'll need them for court day to show all of the different arrangements we've agreed to over the past 10 weeks.

    I'm supposed to have coffee with a friend at 9, so I'll get to the courthouse late morning and get it all done.

    I've lost a ton of sleep over this, but I'm working hard to push the emotion out of it.  It's just business and now I have to do my job.

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Oh! Forgot to mention. Talked to an attorney - not the eviction attorney I talked to earlier - but another attorney who does personal injury, DUI and divorce/family law. She said absolutely I can represent the LLC provided the amount I'm claiming is less than $15,000. (It is). Waiting for the first attorney to confirm it, but I'm moving forward based on second attorney's opinion.

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  • Travis Sperr
    Lender · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 597 votes
    10y

    @Linda Weygant you actually won't need anything beyond a ledger and a lease for court. Showing how you worked with the the tenant is not relavant, they have either broke the lease or have not. 

    I have to ask because I am curious - why are you willing to let a tenant stay in a property for months without paying rent but not willing to pay for representation (but will to pay an hourly fee for research)? Especially when evictions are so inexpensive in Colorado. 

    1Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Linda Weygant:

    ...  So I understand court processes and paperwork and crossing I's and dotting T's.  ...

    @Nicole A. ...

    @Marcia Maynard ...

     "Crossing I's and dotting T's" will lead to quite a few typos / less intelligible docs. 

    :)

    1Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    10y

    Sounds like your first eviction. I strongly suggest you hire an attorney to handle the whole thing and you take copious notes along the way. One little slip up and you have to start over, and after being without the rent for so long you should want this to go as quickly and smoothly as possible - doing it pro se without prior specific eviction experience is not guaranteed to be smooth. 

    3Reply
  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Linda Weygant I will depart from the crowd here a bit. Most evictions are not difficult. $97 to file in Denver County. Post or serve them. You can just pay to have it posted which allows you possession. The sheriff will post but I hire a process server. It's a little bit more money but it happens quicker. If you serve them personally, then you get the money judgement as well as possession if you win. It is my (none legal opinion) that you can represent your own LLC in Colorado. Let the judge tell you otherwise :). Most tenants don't show up and you win by default. Easy peasy lemon squeezey.

    The rub comes if they show up or answer your summons. If that happens then you need to know or learn your way around the court. Since you are already months behind, what is another couple of weeks while you improve your landlord education? The biggest way you lose if they show up is by them begging for and getting more time from the judge (they are good at that given the amount of time they squeezed out of you). 

    The next step after you win is getting the writ and getting it to the sheriff so they can schedule the set out which takes a day or two. They are usually schedule the actual set out about 7-10 days from when you get on their schedule. 

    At a minimum you are about 3 weeks from tomorrow to get your property back barring some serious tenant drama. If you slip up, time to hire a lawyer. 

    Be very careful how you count the days. I always leave the required time between the day of the notice and the day the filing. Post notice on Tuesday, wait Wed, Thur, and Fri. File for FED on Monday. You don't want to go back to go. File suit on Monday set court date a couple of days more than the minimum 7 days so that you give your server time to serve them with the required amount of lead time. 

    In Denver, your "court date" is not really the time you will see a judge. If the tenant shows then they send you to mediation. If you and the tenant can't figure it out there, then you get a court date which is at least 7 more days out.

    The "easiest" evictions are for non-payment. Pretty much a slam dunk but they can drag it out by asking for more time.

    4Reply
  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
    Originally posted by @Linda Weygant:

    ...  So I understand court processes and paperwork and crossing I's and dotting T's.  ...

    @Nicole A. ...

    @Marcia Maynard ...

     "Crossing I's and dotting T's" will lead to quite a few typos / less intelligible docs. 

    :)

     LOL - I was wondering if anybody was going to pick up on that.  It's something that my dad always used to say as a joke.  People will frequently nod knowingly, but then some will get a puzzled look and say "wait... what??"

    I was able to file yesterday and get the tenants' packets over to the sheriff for process serving.  I'm also required to mail them a copy, which I also took care of yesterday.  I drove the mailed packets to the tenants' local post office, so it's likely they'll get their packets either today or Monday.  Court has been schedule for November 6.

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  • David Dachtera
    Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Linda Weygant,

    Here in IL, our attorney general, Lisa Madigan, also is a sucker for a sob story. In this state, we have people like your renters. We call them "professional tenants". They pay the landlord once at the beginning of the experience, and never again. It can take as long as two years to get them out because IL does not allow evictions during winter cold or summer heat.

    0Reply
  • Doug N.
    Lynnwood, WA · Member since 2015 · 221 posts · 157 votes
    10y

    Perhaps this post should be re-titled as 'Anatomy of an Investor's Education: A Double Major in Screening and Professional Tenancies'... 

    I hope you prevail! Best of luck!

    3Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2015 · 82 posts · 28 votes
    10y

    @Linda Weygant -- thanks for sharing your experience. It's a good reminder to keep emotions out of this business. One of my friends is a successful day trader, and he's told me that the two cardinal sins of stock trading are fear and greed. The third that I would add to REI is undue sympathy. It really is hard to tell sometimes if you're better off letting a tenant who's had an emergency pull together funds to pay you a month late, or evicting them without hoping to collect anything. As a former property manager, I think that sometimes it comes down to a gut instinct. Generally, though, I tended to favor tenants who contacted me before the 15th of the month (our deadline for late rent to be due before filing eviction papers,) since that showed initiative/interest in fixing the problem. I also tended to be more generous with tenants who didn't protest the late fee for rent -- if you're late, you're late.

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Court is tomorrow.  Have everything printed out and ready to go (I have since I filed the court case).

    This morning I got an email from a person who claims that the tenant has applied to rent a place from her.  I haven't responded back because I'm afraid it's some kind of trap that the tenant will then claim in court that I am bad-mouthing or sabotaging her ability to get housing.  

    I will wait and see how court goes tomorrow and if I get the eviction, I will respond to this person with facts only, no emotion.

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Court was today.

    There was no issue with me representing the LLC. The whole experience was a total cluster though. The courtroom is for all collections and evictions. 90% of the people who are there were summoned by a law firm or collection agency. So there's a huge line when you get into the court room to check in. As people check in, they are directed to one of five people who have set themselves up in a corner of the courtroom to make arrangements with the debtors. If you're not there as a debtor to one of the law firms and collection agencies, you just sit and cool your heels while they work through their case loads.

    My tenants showed up and filed a response to the case, which means that it gets set for trial.  That kinda sucked because I thought everything would be resolved today.  Trial is now set for Monday, November 16.

    As we were leaving, they approached me and asked me to talk.  I said sure, why not.  They came to me with this plan that I had to work really hard not to laugh at.  They want to stay in the condo and pay $350 per month towards the back rent.  One of them has decided to go to school to get her Class C license so she can drive a school bus, which pays "good money" and the the other one will do something, blah, blah, blah...  I honestly couldn't pay attention after a while because it was all tears and whining and begging.

    I cut them off and said that there was no deal on the table where they stay in the condo.  Whatever plan they had needed to involve them moving out asap.  They seemed kinda stunned.  Then back to the begging.  With an eviction on their record, they won't be able to get anything, etc, etc, etc.  So I said they better hurry up and get something before the eviction is recorded on the 16th.  More crying.  More reminding me that they are Christian and their word is their bond, but they just can't help it when Satan is actively working against them.  **eyeroll**

    These people are completely uncollectible.  Even if I get a judgment for the back rent and court costs, I'll never see a dime of it.  In the 4 months they've been in the condo, they've each had somewhere between 4 and 7 jobs.  

    The agreement we have now is that I will come over at 8:00 pm on Sunday, November 15th.  If the place is clean and undamaged, then I will show up to court the next morning and ask for the case to be dismissed.  If that is not the case, then I move forward with full force of law for full eviction and judgment for back rent and arrangements for the sheriff to move them out within 48 hours after the trial.

    Lots of promises from them that they'll be out and they are also going to honor that back rent and get me paid even if they are still paying 10 years from now (uh huh...  sure).

    I honestly have no feel for which way they'll go on this.  I will be very pleasantly surprised if I show up on the 15th and they are out and there isn't cement in the pipes.

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  • Mike Wood
    Developer · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 898 votes
    10y

    @Linda Weygant I wish you the best, but dont expect them to leave before being forced out.  Every time I have  had to evict, they stayed until the last minute. I am in the process of eviction with one of my tenants right now, having got my Judgement for Possession of Property on Thursday (the trial in front of the judge), but the tenants will not get served their 24 notice to vacation until today, which then puts the sheriff showing up on Monday at the soonest.

     Have you considered cash for keys?  I tried that on this last eviction ($500), but they would not take it (and it cost me more in lost rent and eviction fee's than I offered).

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I did try cash for keys. - $200, which is the security deposit I'm currently holding (see my original post).  No deal.

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  • S Harper
    Real Estate Investor · Denver-metro, CO · Member since 2008 · 58 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    Linda,

    Would you be willing to share the name of the attorney that you spoke with?  I am posting a Demand notice today, but think I need professional help on our first eviction.  Finding a RE or eviction attorney in Arvada with referrals has been difficult.  Thanks,

    Suzanne

    1Reply
  • John Arendsen
    Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 726 posts · 340 votes
    10y

    Here's a good place to start. Some of these entities will have referral service. But  don't just run out and hire an attorney unless it's absolutely necessary. If you're going to be in the Landlord biz you either better be independently wealthy and hire an attorney or learn to deal with these issues on your own. If the latter start with a little self education and check out this link:

    http://www.coloradolegalservices.org/lawhelp/resource/questions-and-answers-about-eviction?ref=crgxD

    Good luck and keep us posted!

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @S Harper - the attorney never called me back, so I can't really recommend him.  I just went to go and find his phone number again, and now I can't find it.  Sorry about that...

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    OP
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Went to the condo last night at 8:00 as previously agreed.  Anybody want to place bets as to whether they were gone or not?

    For those of you who think they were still there, you win!!!!!

    One token box in the middle of the living room where I could see it from the doorway.  Sister 1 says that Sister 2 is bi-polar and won't move out and she has the car and Sister 1 doesn't have a car and there's nothing she can do.  Also says that Sister 2 filed for bankruptcy (uh -oh!)

    Turned around and walked away without saying a word.  

    Sister 2 calls me from a phone number I didn't recognize (otherwise I wouldn't have picked up) and tells me that Sister 1 is just too damaged from being abused for so long and locked her out of the house without her coat and she couldn't get her stuff.

    Long story short, they're both freakin' crazy.

    I tell ya - these women will throw each other under an oncoming bus at a moment's notice.  The one thing they have in common, is that it's always a story, never a solution.

    So court was this morning at 9:30.  By 9:45, they had not showed and I was issued a summary judgment and told to go see the clerk at Window 8.  The clerk told me that I now wait 48 hours - come back Wednesday and they will issue a Writ of Restitution which I then take to the Sheriff's Office and I schedule a move out with them at that point.

    As I was leaving the clerk's window, I saw the sisters rushing into the court room.  I had to go to the bathroom after being so nervous all morning.  By the time I came out, they were at a clerk window, waving paper around and crying.  Not sure what they were attempting to do.  Called a friend who speculated that it's possible they are trying to get an emergency stay based on the supposed bankruptcy filing.  He didn't know if they'd be successful since they showed up late.  

    At this point, I'll just go along as planned.  Will go to the court on Wednesday for the Writ of Restitution and if they tell me then that there's a Stay, then I guess I'll deal with it then.

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  • Janice R.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 100 posts · 40 votes
    10y

    @Linda Weygant

    Wow.  I hope it goes well for you.   

    Unbelievable stress for you.

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