current tenant wants to move in a girlfriend...I need advice...
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes
10yAdd the girlfriend as an occupant but not a party to the lease. That way you'll have it in writing that she lives there, but the total financial responsibility for the lease lies with the boyfriend.
You can do this as an amendment to the current lease, or sign a new lease which would restart the clock on the lease term.
26 Replies
- Investor · Athens, TX · Member since 2015 · 27 posts · 5 votes10y
If he is a good tenant and cares for the property to your liking, I think it would be a reasonably safe move, the rent is already being paid on his income and somewhat taking her financial qualifications out of the picture. It will also help to keep him as a happy long term tenant.
- Investor · Juneau, AK · Member since 2015 · 980 posts · 741 votes10y
I tend to agree with hunter, rent is being paid already, so you screen her more for damage or disturbance issues with joint income obviously ok....and you may end up with her there much of the time anyway if they are serious....In my experience, your only risk is the break up and being left with just her, but that may not happen or be a lease or two away and you could cross that bridge then (by not allowing her to be there solo)...,you are approving them as a couple here on the total income...and you can retain the good tenant (maybe very long term as her credit issues may make it harder for them to move)........
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes10y
I'm not sure what the advantage is to you to add her to the lease. Before I did anything I would have a good discussion of the "What ifs" with the tenant. If he still really wants to move her in, and he's paying rent on time, all the time, and you don't want to make an issue of the girlfriend, then I would just leave things as is and let it be known that you don't add tenants after the fact, so it is what it is, and let him do as he may. That leaves him responsible for everything, as the only official lessee. Why give someone with no real or stable income legal rights to the property? If/when they get into a fight, and she's on the lease, he gets the boot when the cops show up on a domestic (he may get the boot anyway the other way, but she won't be able to prove legal residency so easily). If they decide to break up, he may decide to move out, leaving you trying to collect rent from her until you get her evicted, whereas if it's just him on the lease, and he moves out, you change the locks and store anything left in the house.
I only consider adding someone to a lease if I would have approved that person from the beginning when they were applying for residency. If I would have rejected one of the individuals, then I won't add them to the lease. For boyfriend/girlfriend situations I prefer only the responsible person be on the lease - let them figure out who's going to pay for what on their own. My leases don't provide for anyone else being allowed to move in, so I can use it if I need to if the tenant/"guest" becomes a problem. Because the reality is that it is always difficult to prove that someone else is living in your rental, vs. just being a persistent guest.
Skyline Properties - Lender · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2015 · 103 posts · 28 votes10yFirst, I think your tenant is being very honest about his desire to move his girl friend in. Like the others before have stated, he is paying his rent, he keeps the property up to your liking. If she isn't a criminal & as long as you feel comfortable with her being there I don't see where the problem arises. To me contracts can be renegotiated, you could add her on the lease & have her pay an additional security deposit.
- Residential Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2011 · 10 posts · 3 votes10y
Does she have a Landlord reference? Many applicants have terrible credit but have excellent Landlord references because they are responsible in that one area of life. I personally put more weight on a Landlord reference than credit. And that's even more pronounced when adding them to an existing lease with a great tenant.
I wouldn't worry about it too much if the existing tenant has been great. If you let her in, just keep an eye on them for a while to see if everything stays smooth.
- 10yCathy T.seacoast area, NH · Member since 2014 · 43 posts · 12 votesOP
Thank you all for the quick responses...
Jd Martin...you put into words exactly what I was wondering about...thank you. "Why give someone with no real or stable income legal rights to the property?"
I do have a "no long term visitors" clause in my lease, which he signed. I could enforce that, if it was ever needed. But can I (or should I) ignore that clause to allow him to have the girlfriend move in? I can't say I did not know she is there...I live next door!
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Cathy T.:
Thank you all for the quick responses...
Jd Martin...you put into words exactly what I was wondering about...thank you. "Why give someone with no real or stable income legal rights to the property?"
I do have a "no long term visitors" clause in my lease, which he signed. I could enforce that, if it was ever needed. But can I (or should I) ignore that clause to allow him to have the girlfriend move in? I can't say I did not know she is there...I live next door!
The only advantage I can imagine for adding someone to a lease is that you have another responsible party from which to attempt to collect rent should it become necessary, but you also confer your obligations as a landlord to that person. Since this person has no real source of means, but could take advantage of your obligations, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Whether you could say you did or didn't know doesn't really make any difference, because legally, unless she gets a court to say otherwise, she is just a guest of the lessee without having her name on that lease, and guests generally have no rights whatsoever outside of those legally granted by the lessee. If they get into a scrap and he leaves, or gets put out, you could simply lock up shop and put the burden on her to go to court to force you to recognize her de facto residency, rather than you trying to figure out where he went and whether you can get any money from her.
Skyline Properties - Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes10y
Add the girlfriend as an occupant but not a party to the lease. That way you'll have it in writing that she lives there, but the total financial responsibility for the lease lies with the boyfriend.
You can do this as an amendment to the current lease, or sign a new lease which would restart the clock on the lease term.
- Homeowner · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 70 posts · 24 votes10y
Originally posted by @Fred Heller:
Add the girlfriend as an occupant but not a party to the lease. That way you'll have it in writing that she lives there, but the total financial responsibility for the lease lies with the boyfriend.
You can do this as an amendment to the current lease, or sign a new lease which would restart the clock on the lease term.
Good day. Does the occupant have any legal rights to the property? When the lessee moves out does the occupant get the right to stay? Thanks.
- Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 481 votes10yI think I would do an amendment adding the girl friend to the lease. If she were to stay without signing the lease you have no legal document for the courts to follow. Before doing the above I would sit down with the tenant and explain to him worst case scenario. He moves out and she doesn't pay rent. He would either have to pay the rent or go thru an eviction with her. (Effecting his credit) After getting the judgement for back rent, you would then garnish his wages. Is that what he wants?
- Real Estate Agent · Rutherford, NJ · Member since 2015 · 18 posts · 6 votes10y
WHy dont you ask your lawyer what to do ?
- Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
I wouldn't add her to the lease. Just let her move in. Honestly I'm kind of surprised he even brought it up with you.
- Attorney · Attleboro, MA · Member since 2015 · 412 posts · 165 votes10y
I like the idea of an addendum to the lease to allow her to live there. As long as he would qualify on his own and does not need her income to pay the rent. Then when the lease is up, you can see about adding her as a responsible party.
The problem with adding her may come if they have a falling out and he leaves, he most likely will stop paying rent. If he wants her out for some reason, I would think that if she is on the lease then she is going to say she has a right to be there
- Investor, Realtor · Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 45 votes10y
I have been through this situation twice and both have ended badly. The best advice I can give is to spend a little time with an attorney and get the facts from a legal source. Here are a couple of points that you need an attorney to clarify for you.
1) what establishes residency in your state/County? If the girlfriend moves in and is paying the utilities or receiving mail is she a resident regardless of being on the lease.
2) at the end of the lease the boyfriend moves out but she does not how do you evict her If she's not on the lease?
3) when the lease is up and both claim rights to the security deposit, how do you distribute?
An attorney will answer the questions you don't realize you don't know.
- Investor · Juneau, AK · Member since 2015 · 980 posts · 741 votes10y
Originally posted by @Jeff B.:
If someone lives there, get them on the lease. Otherwise, if they split up, you can have complications getting them evicted and it's difficult enough w/o complications.
I second this...having once seen a landlord unsure exactly who his residents were having to list Does 1-5 (as in john and Jane doe) in the eviction paperwork....not good....
I agree with j. Beard 100 percent. If they live there, get them in the lease so if nothing else you know who lives there (think legal or even emergency situation could you even tell responders who is there?)... Less serious but practical ...how can you even communicate effectively warnings, policies, updates, maintenance, reminders etc..if you don't know 100 percent who should be living there...I have guests at two weeks maximum after which time they need to move on or get on the lease....best of luck on this issue..great discussion..
- Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 22 votes10y
I would not add her to lease as being responsible financially but I would add her as an occupant to the lease . In Florida its easier to an occupant out than someone named on the lease as being responsible for the property. Also, if/when they break up its much easier to get her off and not be obligated to her in anyway.
- Lincoln City, OR · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 54 votes10y
I had a landlord for many years that let the married daughter and her husband take over renting the house next to us when her mother moved out. When they moved their son took over and his friends moved in. Then the son moved out and his friend had new friends move in. When he moved in one of his friends move his girlfriend in. After he was arrested for breaking into my house and hitting me with a flashlight, he went to prison and she moved on the son moved back in with friends and the next thing the police were breaking into the house because of the drugs being sold out of the house.
My point is the landlord never did rental agreements after the first one and just collected from whoever would give it to him. He was lucky that after the drug problem I did not go after him because the police offered to testify and help me gain ownership of all four homes he owned on the block.
If they are there over 14 days they must be on the lease.
- 10yCurtis BidwellPro MemberRental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2014 · 777 posts · 744 votes
I do a simple addendum that adds (or subtracts) from the existing lease and binds them to it. I want everyone living there fully financially responsible (theoretically, they will take better care if they are personally on the hook - or do damage to the boyfriend when they leave if they aren't liable). I might even require a cosigned for the added leasee.
- Realtor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2011 · 110 posts · 25 votes10y
Because they might split up, just let her move in withough being on the lease. Unless he really wants to. If things go south they will both be reasonable for rent and damages which can cause BOTH of them to not do anything. This happens all the time in apartments and usually tenants don't even tell you, they just ask for another key.
- 10yCathy T.seacoast area, NH · Member since 2014 · 43 posts · 12 votesOP
My deepest thanks to everyone! Several points have been brought up that never crossed my mind, and everyone's thoughts on the matter have been considered.
Some additional info gathered just this morning...apparently the girlfriend needs to have some sort of documentation as to her living situation in order to continue qualifying for a government program that she is on. (I know which program, but am choosing to be discreet.) And, she has a child, somewhere.
I am leaning heavily towards the addendum suggestion, with fully adding her to a new lease when he/they renew the lease in 5 months.
So...can anyone suggest wording for this addendum, or point me in a direction I might go to find such a thing? Ideally I would talk to a lawyer about this, but it is not in the budget at the moment.
- Investor · Wellington, FL · Member since 2009 · 37 posts · 19 votes10y
I agree with JD Martin's comment. I would not add her name to the lease as a tenant since she doesn't meet the qualification guidelines. Having her as an occupant is a good compromise.
- Investor · Hillsborough, NH · Member since 2015 · 137 posts · 126 votes10y
Hi @Cathy T.
After reading this thread and many others that are similar (in that they seek to clarify legal landlord-tenant matters), I am concerned by the willingness of so many BP members to represent their comments as valid advice, even though they live in states other than the one in question. I am also concerned by people who write down their ideas as if they are giving solid advice, even though they clearly don't have the experience; like a gas station attendant giving best-guess directions to a place with which he/she is not adequately familiar.
I am an experienced landlord from NH, and while I unfortunately do not have enough experience with this situation to give conclusive advice, I will share what I do know:
1) Her income doesn't matter. It is combined income of all applicants that should gross 3.5X the monthly rent. Would you decline the application of a family where there is a stay-at-home mom or dad, if the other spouse made more than enough to qualify? Of course not. On the other hand, I have a rule that I do not allow people to move in if they fail the character portion of my screening process (evictions, L-T filings of any kind, disqualifying issues on their background check, recent credit history that implies extremely poor fiscal responsibility, etc.) It only takes one resident for the tenancy to be a nightmare. (This point is not NH specific.)
2) I have been advised by a NH attorney to add every resident over the age of 18 to the lease. That way, they are individually responsible for the full amount of rent, and they are obligated under all of your lease provisions. That is that attorney's opinion; it doesn't make it gold. Also, you should clarify this with your attorney, but I believe that as long as she can show residency, the eviction process in NH remains the same whether she is on the lease or not, and changing the locks on her outside of the legal system when you darn well know she lives there would be a VERY BAD IDEA.
3) Not to sound harsh, but you're a real estate investor; get an attorney. We're not talking about putting one on retainer, we're talking about occasional advice that isn't going to cost a whole lot. If it's not in your budget, is getting sued because you locked someone out of your house in your budget? How about losing 3 or more months' rent because you botched the eviction process? Because either of those is much more expensive than an attorney. No one knows the answers automatically. You can either learn the hard way (by screwing up), or you learn from someone who already knows. Even if it costs a few bucks, it's cheaper than learning the hard way.
4) Do not worry about what happens if the boyfriend moves out. As long as he is on the lease (which he is), he remains fully financially responsible for the rent (assuming your lease is adequate). Once the lease goes month-to-month, if he gives a 30-day notice of his intent to vacate, simply explain that the notice must be signed by both of them, because cancelling the lease is cancelling the entire lease, and unless they both move out and relinquish their claim of residency in writing, they both remain fully responsible for the full amount of rent. A 30-day notice is a notice to terminate the lease, not a notice that one party to the lease will be relieving himself of his responsibilities under the lease. It is then your decision whether to enter a new lease with just the girlfriend (at which time her income does become important).
5) On a similar note, the comment about having to split up the security deposit is null; it is not your responsibility to do so, and in this case I would simply cut the check to the person who made the deposit in the first place. The following doesn't apply here, but if you were to take partial security deposit checks from individual parties to the lease, you would be setting a precedent that each of the residents is a sole party, which would be a very foolish thing to do. In the 6 situations I can think of right now in which I have rented to a group of people (other than a family or a couple), I have required them to appoint one person as the group representative, and it is that person who takes care of the security deposit, rent payments, and most correspondence. I have a rental that consists of 4 girls just out of college, with each of their parents as guarantors to the lease. One of them moved out and wanted her portion of the security deposit back (I wasn't concerned about letting her off the lease because the guarantees from the well-to-do parents of the other tenants are more than adequate and they pay their rent early every month). The remaining girls informed me that she had abandoned some of her belongings so they did not want her to get her security back because they had to clean up after her. I also received a personal letter from the mother of the girl who had moved, informing me of my supposed responsibility to refund her portion of the security deposit. I simply responded in an email to all of them that I do not give partial refunds of security, just like I do not take partial rent from individual lessees. At the time the lease is terminated, the entire security will be refunded to the remaining lessees, and any partial refunds to vacating roommates, as well as any collection of partial deposits from new roommates, is on them to figure out.
6) Remember that every situation is an opportunity, not just a problem. This situation is a perfect opportunity to explain that you can only allow her to move in if they both sign a new 1-year lease, and you will need an additional $100/month in rent for the added resident. Only you can decide whether the extra rent will drive him out, and that is based on the quality and pricing of your rental as compared to others in your local market. My lease states that I can charge $200 for an added resident, so the $100 I actually charge is a break. Typically, $100/month is nothing when they consider the added contribution of the additional resident, whether financial or otherwise, and I have never had any pushback from tenants on this. It is adding to the wear and tear of my property (many of which have leach fields), so I think it is an extremely fair compromise. That's $1,200 per year, so there's your attorney budget and then some...
Good luck,
Troy
- 10yMike HurneyPro MemberReal Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 542 votes
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