Am I the mean landlord?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Am I the mean landlord?

Max T.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

First situation: Apartment was advertised at $1400 for a 2 bed/1 bath house. Prospective tenants had 2 pets and we agreed to increase rent to $1430 (15/pet). Lease was written up with the 2 pets allowed and the rent set at $1430. Fast forward a few months. Tenants are a little sloppy but no problems and they pay on time. Tenants gave one of the pets away to a friend and want to reduce the rent by $15. I decline, saying changes to the lease can be discussed at renewal time.

2nd situation: Same tenants/house. One is out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday. The other locks herself out. I come by to open up and charge the lock out fee ($25, as set in the lease).

Am I the mean landlord? My parents would probably be telling me to waive the $15/month and not to charge for opening up. They would advise this on the grounds that I'm more likely to keep the tenants long term. Many on BP who hold firm on the "run it like a business" mentality will tell me I'm doing it right.

I'm looking for the overall consensus here. What do you think? 

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Jeff Rabinowitz
Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y

You charge a $25 lock out fee and are willing to go to the house yourself for that? I believe it specifies $100 in my lease. I am not sure because in 12 years of leasing 12 houses this has never happened to my tenants. I would not even consider going to the house to unlock it if the tenant locked themselves out. I would give them the phone number for my locksmith who has the codes for all my keys. The locksmith would charge about $100. If the tenant didn't pay him directly I would pay him bill the tenants for the service. If they locked themselves out after hours or on a holiday they can check into a motel until the locksmith can get there or their partner comes back with the key. I am a landlord not a babysitter.

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  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:

    Max,

    In a tenant's eyes anytime you say no or enforce a fee of some sort you will always be the bad guy. Stay strong and keep up the good work.

    Try this tip out so you can just avoid the lockout issue all together.

    We remove all lockable door handles. The only way to lock the door is with the key in the deadbolt from the outside of the house. We have about 300 or so units and I do not think we have had a lockout in 2015.

    So no lockable door knobs?  Passage handles only and deadbolts on all entry doors?  Makes sense but I've never seen it done like that in any rental, low or high end.  At our own house we never use the deadbolt on the front door during the day.  It would take some getting used to always have to use a key every time we left the house.  Your tenants obviously got used to it right away.  Gotta ask, what's the highest rent on those units?

     Our units range from $400's to about $1,000.

    Have never had a tenant complain about them.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:

    Max,

    In a tenant's eyes anytime you say no or enforce a fee of some sort you will always be the bad guy. Stay strong and keep up the good work.

    Try this tip out so you can just avoid the lockout issue all together.

    We remove all lockable door handles. The only way to lock the door is with the key in the deadbolt from the outside of the house. We have about 300 or so units and I do not think we have had a lockout in 2015.

    So no lockable door knobs?  Passage handles only and deadbolts on all entry doors?  Makes sense but I've never seen it done like that in any rental, low or high end.  At our own house we never use the deadbolt on the front door during the day.  It would take some getting used to always have to use a key every time we left the house.  Your tenants obviously got used to it right away.  Gotta ask, what's the highest rent on those units?

     Our units range from $400's to about $1,000.

    Have never had a tenant complain about them.

    Thanks for the additional info.  I'm always interested in the bulletproofing other landlords use.  But I've also noticed some of it is more accepted in lower end rentals.  Where I am a $2000+ tenant expects door handle locks and pop up drains and ice maker plumbing hook ups.  

    1Reply
  • Raun Stout
    Real Estate Agent · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Derek Weese:
    Originally posted by @Raun Stout:

    There are a lot of good responses here. If you value the tenants I would adjust the rent for the pet that is no longer there. If you can rent the property with ease and you do not have any particular fondness for the tenants than keep it at the current rate.

    On the lock out rate I agree with those who are saying if its in the lease then you should charge it. You don't want to create unnecessary precedent that could lead to more issues down the line. 

    Honestly if they think you are being 'mean' that's on them. Everything is laid out in black and white, so neither party should be surprised by any charges or lack of fee reductions.

    Raun I would not advise a landlord to make adjustments to rent/terms based on fondness. The potential to have a fair housing claim against the landlord is too great. If the tenants aren't ideal a better method to get rid of them would be to terminate tenancy at the end of their lease.

    I agree that as a landlord you are not 'mean' if you follow your contract to the letter. The tenants are adults and have entered an agreement and they need to follow the terms. In my property management career I have always followed the lease, and in the numerous gray areas that inevitably pop up I ask myself "What would a judge think of this?" and "If I was investigated would their be any possible chance that this could be seen as discrimination?" Hence the reason I advised he waive the second pet rent. 

     If you value tenants (they pay on time, respect your property, are good people) you have every right to have them sign a new lease with the lowered amount of rent to reflect the absence of one of the pets. And if he does not feel like doing that the landlord is also within their rights. The adjustment is made on number of pets not any other factor. Willingness to do so is another matter. I understand Derek's fear of litigation but that is quite a leap in my honest opinion.  

    1Reply
  • Carissa Grant
    Investor · Lithonia, GA · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    I am new to this and I would have done the same thing. The agreement is already signed an in place. And I would have charged a locksmith fee also. 

    1Reply
  • Jay Orlauski
    Realtor · Fresno, CA · Member since 2013 · 471 posts · 225 votes
    10y

    Devils advocate jumping in : if we are to follow the lease to the letter - and the lease calls for a $30 / more charge based on two cats - if they no longer have two cats than they are in violation of the lease and should given a notice to perform or quit. In other words get a second cat or move out.  Just being facetious of course -  I had a triplex with tenants that for the life of them couldn't remember their keys and was always asking to be let in. I didn't make a big deal of it cause I was right next door anyway and they always paid on time .. sometimes in advance. But, I think like one of the posters above said - they got used to thinking I would always be there to open the door for them - one day when I was out of town and they locked themselves out - they called and were surprised to find that they had to get a locksmith or wait for the second person to get home with keys -they chose to wait - but the indignation in her voice obvious... like how dare I be out of town when they needed to get in .. and when it sank in that she wasn't getting in.. the resignation in her voice said it all.... it was actually the last lockout call I got from them.  

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Lender · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 283 posts · 128 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Dan Perrott:

    @Max T.

    If the lease is written as 15 per pet added to the lease amount (written not verbal), the I think you may have to reduce the rent.

    If it is written in the lease to charge the lockout fee, then you should stick to your lease.  

    This is not mean, this is what you agreed to by signing the legal document.  Its not that big of a deal - because you agreed to this prior to the tenant being locked out.

    You are not being mean, you are running a business.  Good luck.

     I am in full agreement, stick to the lease. If the pets are an add on, I am not sure that it matters whether they _the pet_ moves out. The same is true whether  the tenant moves out, they are responsible thru the term of the lease. The exception might be if the pet lease is month to month, otherwise - the lease should stay the same through the term.

    1Reply
  • Dan Dawson
    Investor · Bloomington, IL · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 3 votes
    10y

        If you took time to put it in your lease you should take time to go by the letter of the lease. If you don't you set precedent. Have a rent talk in the beginning explaining all these issues so they will expect you to go by the lease. Rent talk should take 20 - 30 minutes but is well worth it in the long run.                                                                                            Tenants need to be trained. They need to expect you to enforce your rules. After all who has their investment at risk?

    1Reply
  • Craig Moore
    Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 187 posts · 41 votes
    10y

    Very simple: Keep the same rents, but be a little easy on the lock out. As they say, "it's just business nothing personal." Though, I'd keep your eyes open for tenant dissatisfaction.

    2Reply
  • Gene Robinson
    Real Estate Agent · Harvest, AL · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    If I were placed in that situation, I'd do the same. They signed a contract to pay for 2 cats over 12 months. The good thing about contracts is that they don't change according to emotions. The lockout fee..................I'd charge the fee to make it inconvenient for the tenant to lose a key. When I lived in an apartment, I would be charged after being locked out 1 time in a year. I only paid the fee one time and after that I made copies to avoid the fee. 

    0Reply
  • Gary Hall
    Investor · Muskegon, MI · Member since 2015 · 35 posts · 16 votes
    10y

    I would waive the pet fee. With the understanding that it will go back up or higher if they get more pets. 

    I never waive a lock out fee.

    1Reply
  • Jake Matthew
    Real Estate Agent · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2014 · 37 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    I have a client who puts a coded keypad on all the front doors to prevent lock out outs in the first place. This will save everyone the hassle. If you don't want to spent the $100 or so for the coded deadbolt, you can buy a key lockbox for around $30 and stash it somewhere on the property. 

    1Reply
  • Daren H.
    Real Estate Investor · Desoto, TX · Member since 2013 · 560 posts · 528 votes
    10y

    "Run it like a business" does not mean you can't cut people some slack at times.  A lot of successful businesses do it. The other day I got an oil change and fuel injector flush. The technician brought me my air filter and said it was and needed changing. Of course I complained about his assessment. He threw in the air filter change for free. Either he saw that I was a regular for oil changes and other miscellaneous services or he was trying to make me a regular. The business has the potential to win either way. 

    With that being said, I would cut the tenant slack if the lockout was the first time but I would not lower the rent because they gave away a pet. I had a similar situation. Tenant payed a one-time pet deposit for the 1 year lease. The dog ran away or something weird after a short time. The tenant wanted part of the deposit back. People be trippin!

    Fa real though, $1400 for a 2 bedroom, 1 bath. Is that $15 really that important, lol. 

    1Reply
  • Aaron Mazzrillo
    Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I don't think anyone needs to come here for a personality assessment. You're going to run your business the way you see fit. Not lowering the rent because the tenant got rid of a pet being mean? I evicted a tenant who stopped paying the rent because she couldn't go to work while she was staying with her son who got shot twice out in the street in front of the house... In December. 

    1Reply
  • Rudy G.
    Wholesaler · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    I use a month to month rental agreement that includes rules and regulations.  There is no reason to have your property tied up with a long term lease as the tenant can leave at any time and generally cannot afford to pay a judgement if you sue.

    1Reply
  • Rafael Molinaro
    Investor · Lyndhurst, NJ · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 5 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Elizabeth Colegrove:
    Originally posted by @Max T.:

    First situation: Apartment was advertised at $1400 for a 2 bed/1 bath house. Prospective tenants had 2 pets and we agreed to increase rent to $1430 (15/pet). Lease was written up with the 2 pets allowed and the rent set at $1430. Fast forward a few months. Tenants are a little sloppy but no problems and they pay on time. Tenants gave one of the pets away to a friend and want to reduce the rent by $15. I decline, saying changes to the lease can be discussed at renewal time.

    2nd situation: Same tenants/house. One is out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday. The other locks herself out. I come by to open up and charge the lock out fee ($25, as set in the lease).

    Am I the mean landlord? My parents would probably be telling me to waive the $15/month and not to charge for opening up. They would advise this on the grounds that I'm more likely to keep the tenants long term. Many on BP who hold firm on the "run it like a business" mentality will tell me I'm doing it right.

    I'm looking for the overall consensus here. What do you think? 

    First off you will NEVER get a consensus here! 

    That being said I am a very very very jaded and MEAN landlord. So I will vote that you did everything right and I would have done it too :)

     I follow my 16 page lease exactly. For a few reasons. 

    A) it prevents issues again favoritism and therefore violations of favoritism. 

    B) it EVERY time I violate my lease to be nice it bites me in the TUSH, a centimeter becomes THREE miles. If I hold too it exactly it becomes no stress.

    C) Once you waive some stuff, it becomes harder to enforce other items. It also makes the expectation that you will work with them so when you don't, you area mean.

    D) If I have to follow the lease, so do you :)

    Lets just say I am VERY passionate about my lease being my key to tenant management. So I am very jaded on this subject. Here is 2 articles I have written for BP on this subject. 

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/11/2...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/10/1...

    Good luck!

     I would do exactly the same, you have to run it like a business.

    1Reply
  • Katie Rogers
    Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2015 · 644 posts · 17 votes
    10y

    I understand charging a bigger deposit for a pet.  If there is no damage, the tenant gets it all back anyway. But charging extra rent?

    0Reply
  • Jay Rogers
    Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 7 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Max T.:

    First situation: Apartment was advertised at $1400 for a 2 bed/1 bath house. Prospective tenants had 2 pets and we agreed to increase rent to $1430 (15/pet). Lease was written up with the 2 pets allowed and the rent set at $1430. Fast forward a few months. Tenants are a little sloppy but no problems and they pay on time. Tenants gave one of the pets away to a friend and want to reduce the rent by $15. I decline, saying changes to the lease can be discussed at renewal time.

    2nd situation: Same tenants/house. One is out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday. The other locks herself out. I come by to open up and charge the lock out fee ($25, as set in the lease).

    Am I the mean landlord? My parents would probably be telling me to waive the $15/month and not to charge for opening up. They would advise this on the grounds that I'm more likely to keep the tenants long term. Many on BP who hold firm on the "run it like a business" mentality will tell me I'm doing it right.

    I'm looking for the overall consensus here. What do you think? 

    See renting is a give and take business. If you reduce the 15$ monthly, then it won't be a big loss for you instead you will be on an upper hand and you can ask for some favor in the future.

    1Reply
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