Never take in strays!

Never take in strays!

Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes

This is an interesting story for home owners in Florida. I just went through 2 weeks of hell but I finally won.

I met a young couple who were unemployed and had no where to live. I allowed them stay in my house providing free food and accommodation for a month from November 1-December 8. I am renovating the house and they were supposed to do an hour of painting per day (which they rarely did).


On 8 December, we all moved to another one of my houses after the tenants moved out. I planned to spend 1-2 weeks repainting and fixing the yard. .


I told the couple we would be moving back to my other house on 20 December after the painting was finished as I had found tenants to rent the house. They protested because they loved the new house and it was closer to the city.


I told them that they didn't have a choice because I had already rented out the property. To my dismay, when I returned home on 21 December I found the locks had been changed and I couldn't get in. When I tried to speak to them, the woman hurled abuse at me through a window. I was in such shock I just left.


The next day I went back and she called the police stating I was trespassing. When the police arrived they spoke to us separately. The couple claimed they were tenants who had paid $1000! The police officer was amazing and he said he didn't believe her and freeloading in my house was wrong and it was outrageous to claim I was trespassing by entering my own house. However he was apologetic to me and said they didn't have the power to remove them as they had already established residency.


The following day I had someone pack their belongings and dropped them at her work and changed the locks to my house. The police then aided these scam artists to break back into the property by breaking the locks. I went into the police station to discuss this outrageous situation with the Sargent. She told me it was my fault for letting people stay in my house overnight and I needed to evict them through the court.


When I went to my house that night, the woman violently assaulted me as I walked through the front door and threw me on the pavement. I called 911 again and a different set of officers attended. I was battered and bleeding when they arrived. I reported the assault to the female police officer and the officer stated she was 'defending herself as I tried to enter her home'.

The officer told me I was not allowed to enter my own home. I was in so much shock and wondered at what point after I paid for and bought the home and tenderly renovated the house that it had suddenly transferred ownership to this woman's house who hadn't paid 1 dime.

I spoke to a bunch of lawyers and they all said I had to file an unlawful detainer lawsuit which would take several months to have them evicted. They also said it was too complicated to do without a lawyer.

I read through the legislation and found Section 82.045 of the Florida Statute:

82.045 Remedy for unlawful detention by a transient occupant of residential property.—

(1) As used in this section, the term “transient occupant” means a person whose residency in a dwelling intended for residential use has occurred for a brief length of time, is not pursuant to a lease, and whose occupancy was intended as transient in nature.

(3) Any law enforcement officer may, upon receipt of a sworn affidavit of the party entitled to possession that a person who is a transient occupant is unlawfully detaining residential property, direct a transient occupant to surrender possession of residential property. The sworn affidavit must set forth the facts, including the applicable factors listed in paragraph (1)(a), which establish that a transient occupant is unlawfully detaining residential property.


I got together up an Affidavit, copies of text messages between us, my warranty deed and utility copies in my name and went back to the police station asking to speak to a supervisor. The first 2 officers I spoke to said they couldn't do a thing and I had to go to court.

Finally I got to sit down with a Lieutenant and argue my case. After presenting all my paper work and story and he went quiet and left the room. He returned 5 minutes later and said it was a new statute that none of them were aware of. They called the State Attorney to confirm everything was kosher and then told me to meet them at the house to remove the couple. I had been at the police station for nearly 5 hours.

Finally got to the house at midnight and there were tears and tantrums from this woman who figured she was going to get 2-3 months living in my house rent free. The police said she had to pack her stuff and leave or they would arrest her. 3 hours later they were finally out and locks were changed again.

god knows why, they vandalized the house. They poured buckets of paint all over the floor, spray painted graffiti and took a hammer to one of the bathroom walls. Its about $4000 of damage.

I know if I had of one through the eviction process I would have got my house with more like $30,000 of damage.

I also lost a NYE Airbnb booking for $2000. Onwards and upwards from here. Lesson is- do not take in strays and know the laws!

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Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
10y

Why would you take in a couple you dont know , give them a place to live and feed them in exchange for painting ? 

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  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    Why would you take in a couple you dont know , give them a place to live and feed them in exchange for painting ? 

  • Investor · McKinney, TX · Member since 2014 · 189 posts · 93 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Nat C.:

    This is an interesting story for home owners in Florida. I just went through 2 weeks of hell but I finally won.

    I met a young couple who were unemployed and had no where to live. I allowed them stay in my house providing free food and accommodation for a month from November 1-December 8. I am renovating the house and they were supposed to do an hour of painting per day (which they rarely did).


    On 8 December, we all moved to another one of my houses after the tenants moved out. I planned to spend 1-2 weeks repainting and fixing the yard. .


    I told the couple we would be moving back to my other house on 20 December after the painting was finished as I had found tenants to rent the house. They protested because they loved the new house and it was closer to the city.


    I told them that they didn't have a choice because I had already rented out the property. To my dismay, when I returned home on 21 December I found the locks had been changed and I couldn't get in. When I tried to speak to them, the woman hurled abuse at me through a window. I was in such shock I just left.


    The next day I went back and she called the police stating I was trespassing. When the police arrived they spoke to us separately. The couple claimed they were tenants who had paid $1000! The police officer was amazing and he said he didn't believe her and freeloading in my house was wrong and it was outrageous to claim I was trespassing by entering my own house. However he was apologetic to me and said they didn't have the power to remove them as they had already established residency.


    The following day I had someone pack their belongings and dropped them at her work and changed the locks to my house. The police then aided these scam artists to break back into the property by breaking the locks. I went into the police station to discuss this outrageous situation with the Sargent. She told me it was my fault for letting people stay in my house overnight and I needed to evict them through the court.


    When I went to my house that night, the woman violently assaulted me as I walked through the front door and threw me on the pavement. I called 911 again and a different set of officers attended. I was battered and bleeding when they arrived. I reported the assault to the female police officer and the officer stated she was 'defending herself as I tried to enter her home'.

    The officer told me I was not allowed to enter my own home. I was in so much shock and wondered at what point after I paid for and bought the home and tenderly renovated the house that it had suddenly transferred ownership to this woman's house who hadn't paid 1 dime.

    I spoke to a bunch of lawyers and they all said I had to file an unlawful detainer lawsuit which would take several months to have them evicted. They also said it was too complicated to do without a lawyer.

    I read through the legislation and found Section 82.045 of the Florida Statute:

    82.045 Remedy for unlawful detention by a transient occupant of residential property.—

    (1) As used in this section, the term “transient occupant” means a person whose residency in a dwelling intended for residential use has occurred for a brief length of time, is not pursuant to a lease, and whose occupancy was intended as transient in nature.

    (3) Any law enforcement officer may, upon receipt of a sworn affidavit of the party entitled to possession that a person who is a transient occupant is unlawfully detaining residential property, direct a transient occupant to surrender possession of residential property. The sworn affidavit must set forth the facts, including the applicable factors listed in paragraph (1)(a), which establish that a transient occupant is unlawfully detaining residential property.


    I got together up an Affidavit, copies of text messages between us, my warranty deed and utility copies in my name and went back to the police station asking to speak to a supervisor. The first 2 officers I spoke to said they couldn't do a thing and I had to go to court.

    Finally I got to sit down with a Lieutenant and argue my case. After presenting all my paper work and story and he went quiet and left the room. He returned 5 minutes later and said it was a new statute that none of them were aware of. They called the State Attorney to confirm everything was kosher and then told me to meet them at the house to remove the couple. I had been at the police station for nearly 5 hours.

    Finally got to the house at midnight and there were tears and tantrums from this woman who figured she was going to get 2-3 months living in my house rent free. The police said she had to pack her stuff and leave or they would arrest her. 3 hours later they were finally out and locks were changed again.

    god knows why, they vandalized the house. They poured buckets of paint all over the floor, spray painted graffiti and took a hammer to one of the bathroom walls. Its about $4000 of damage.

    I know if I had of one through the eviction process I would have got my house with more like $30,000 of damage.

    I also lost a NYE Airbnb booking for $2000. Onwards and upwards from here. Lesson is- do not take in strays and know the laws!

     Wow Nat, I'm feeling very fortunate compared to your experience. I trust your wounds were all superficial. You definitely paid some different types of "tuition" for this lesson, eh? I'm glad you dug your heels in and looked into the law. And I agree with your conclusion: don't take in strays. I'll add my two cents and say that people are generally where they are for a reason. I have found that helping out really doesn't help anyone. I hate to sound so scrooge-like, but it has rarely worked out for me or people I've tried to help.

    My example is far more benign. I have long time tenants I inherited when I bought a particular property a few years ao. They were already paying a bit below market rent but I let that slide. The wife (they are an older couple) made a list of demands when we took over, including new paint and flooring. Frankly, the place is a mess. They've been smoking in there for 9 years. They have 3 dogs. I simply will not repaint and refloor under those circumstances. She wouldn't sign a new rental agreement. Two months in 2015, she was $100 short on rent. 

    The bottom line for me has been to learn to simply stick with business as usual: tenants pay market rent, sign the lease, no smoking, no pets (I'm one who won't take either in rentals I initiate) and pay the late fees where applicable. If they can't do any of it, I don't need them as tenants.

    As for the property I mentioned, we're going to sell it and do something a little closer to home anyway. This place is a bit over an hour away and in a small town. It's been next to impossible trying to find someone to do repairs. But that is another story.

    Anyway, I'm glad you got the squatters out so quickly!

  • Firefighter · Hampshire, IL · Member since 2009 · 41 posts · 17 votes
    10y
    Sorry about your damages. I would never of put my self in that situation. You never know who you are bringing into your home. They seem like bad people and you're lucky that you were not seriously injured, kidnapped, or even killed. I'm sure you learned a valuable lesson!
  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    Why would you take in a couple you dont know , give them a place to live and feed them in exchange for painting ? 

    Its called compassion. 15 years ago I was homeless, so I know what its like. I have helped dozens of people over the years and never had a problem 

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Bryan Schultz:

    Sorry about your damages. I would never of put my self in that situation. You never know who you are bringing into your home. They seem like bad people and you're lucky that you were not seriously injured, kidnapped, or even killed. I'm sure you learned a valuable lesson!

     They seemed like incredibly lovely people. Even my friend thought so.  

  • N/A, Slovakia · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    Now you learned, most people have dubble faces, some have dubble life's.. 

    Due to people like this you will think twice about giving stangers a free roof above their head, witch is too bad for the "good one's" who could really use an opportunity like this. 


    If I'm honest.. i wouldn't provide annyone, besides close family members this opportunity.

    It's still a good lesson, too bad its a expensive one.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Nat C.:
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    Why would you take in a couple you dont know , give them a place to live and feed them in exchange for painting ? 

    Its called compassion. 15 years ago I was homeless, so I know what its like. I have helped dozens of people over the years and never had a problem 

    Compassion doesnt pay the bills .   Hard luck stories are just that  , stories . 

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    Yes, that fact is well known. If you allow someone to stay at your house and they bring clothes it can be considered tenancy. That is one of the worst definitions of law I see in this state but it is used by crooks quite often. Good to see the issue addressed!

  • Rental Property Investor · My City, NY · Member since 2012 · 51 posts · 32 votes
    10y

    Sorry to hear of your troubles, Nat. Glad they are finally out.

       I would think people like this probably have a past that would show in the courts & online. Helping people is one thing & it's a good thing to do, just do some due diligence on the people you want to help, run a credit check on them.

      Can you press charges on them for this? I would want this to stick on them & their records so to make it harder for them to get away with in the future.

  • Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2010 · 499 posts · 206 votes
    10y

    GLad you finally got them out.  Sorry for the damage. That sucks. 

    I helped a couple of people over the summer and both turned out bad. Still, I did a good thing for what that's worth. Our reward's in heaven. 

    Too bad they were low life scum. It seems that when people have no family willing to help them, its probably because they're ungrateful bums. 

  • Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Nat C.:
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    Why would you take in a couple you dont know , give them a place to live and feed them in exchange for painting ? 

    Its called compassion. 15 years ago I was homeless, so I know what its like. I have helped dozens of people over the years and never had a problem 

     No matter how meny times you get taken advantage of you never stop. Getting callous to your fellow man is not the way I will ever live. 

    If you can turn one person around or help one person over a hurdle in front of them it is worth every penny. Has cost me a lot more then $4000 over the past 35 years that I have been in business. 

  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 18 votes
    10y

    @Nat Chan

    I am so sorry you went through that.

  • Ft Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2011 · 23 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    Nan

    The two takeaways from your story are 1) You went the extra mile, read the law, went full-on proactive, and effected change with a police department on the local level.  I have always thought and believed that if possession is nine-tenths of the law, then occupancy is 99.9%. Anotherwords, once someone is in your property, you are (unfairly) hard-pressed to move heaven and earth to get them out, they basically own your property and your soul.  

    Second thing is...a little bit of compassion can go a long way.  @Mark Holencik glad that you turned things around.  I am fond of saying, "There but for the grace of God, go I".

    Over the years, I have noticed that helping out a couple or a houseful, as compared to helping out a single guy or a single girl, is akin to taking on a larger army.  Numbers are against you.  Not only that, if they are homeless or crooks for all the wrong reasons, then that couple will tend to reinforce each other's behaviour.   

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    @Nat C.

    I'm immensely impressed with your tenacity, but, at times, wonder if perhaps you are a little too compassionate for the business? It seems every 3-4 months you are posting about a train wreck where someone has taken advantage of a gesture you have made.

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Nat C.

    Ever hear "No good deed goes unpunished"?  It's sad, but it's a degraded society and the only way to keep control is using money (aka requiring rents).  My case was somewhat similar, but it arose due to a roommate (the one paying the rent) moved on and his friends 'camped out' - - my cost to refurb was $7300, so smile things could have been worse.

  • Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Nan

    The two takeaways from your story are 1) You went the extra mile, read the law, went full-on proactive, and effected change with a police department on the local level.  I have always thought and believed that if possession is nine-tenths of the law, then occupancy is 99.9%. Anotherwords, once someone is in your property, you are (unfairly) hard-pressed to move heaven and earth to get them out, they basically own your property and your soul.  

    Second thing is...a little bit of compassion can go a long way.  @Mark Holencik glad that you turned things around.  I am fond of saying, "There but for the grace of God, go I".

    Over the years, I have noticed that helping out a couple or a houseful, as compared to helping out a single guy or a single girl, is akin to taking on a larger army.  Numbers are against you.  Not only that, if they are homeless or crooks for all the wrong reasons, then that couple will tend to reinforce each other's behaviour.   

     I did not turn things around. I have been doing this since I went into business. Am doing it now and will do it again. I go in knowing odds are they will take advantage of me.

    There are a lot of people that say they owe their life to me, because of the chance I took on them.

  • Lake Jackson, TX · Member since 2013 · 119 posts · 34 votes
    10y

    That makes me mad too read that. Their is alot of people that take advantage  and most people dont keep their word anymore. Growing up my parents always helped out relatives  and 9 times out of 10 they would  get  burnt one way or another. They always had something  bad to say after  staying for free for extended periods of time.Its hard to help people now days cause half the time  they dont want to help themselves  especially  if their is any drugs involved

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    I say this not to be rude or mean, but do you notice a common thread winding through all of your posts? Treating this as a business instead of a charity case would diminish the types of problems you experience by half or more. Being homeless yourself 15 years ago is no good reason or excuse for your course of action. What business would do what you have done? And this same theme resonates through all of your threads. I say this with the utmost intention of trying to help: you should seriously consider using a property manager. You do not appear to have sufficient boundaries to treat this as a separate entity, and you may very well end up in financial disaster on your current road based upon your posts.

    Skyline Properties
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  • Greenwood, IN · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 12 votes
    10y
    I've had a sort of similar situation happen to me, but it was a so called friend and she lied to me and stole from me. Her grandmother warned me about her but I didn't listen. $1,000 she cost me. Another friend I helped out liked to leach off me and not do anything for himself. $800 he cost me. They both lived with me, my daughter and my daughters father at the same time. Huge lesson learned, if they are homeless it's for a reason. I'll help them find a shelter but from now on it won't be with me.
  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Nat C. I admire your determination of solving the problem in a creative way In reviewing your posts from 2015 you have a some tough breaks,. The tile guy and the waste violation fine . I wish you a successful and trouble free  2016 Have patience and you will avoid a lot of problems 

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/239...

  • Ft Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2011 · 23 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    @Mark Holencik Apologies as I misunderstood your original post and sometimes just flat out misread.

    @JdMartin Using a property manager as a buffer is a pretty good idea.  Somebody else can be the tough guy.  That being said, some people are particularly empathetic and sympathetic, and where would the world be without people like that?

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2014 · 230 posts · 122 votes
    10y

    Those who let people in dire straits stay in their homes have good hearts, but to paraphrase Jd, we need to treat our properties as a business.  Most of us have spent a good deal of time and energy into working for the money or otherwise acquiring our properties, and we have to protect them.  So how to we handle our obligations as caring members of society?  There are social service agencies that are far more equipped than we to handle the situations of homeless families.  We help facilitate that connection.  We also can provide money and make in-kind contributions to help these agencies.

    It's our company's tradition to donate to a charity providing shelter to the homeless in every county where we have a rental.  Additionally, one of our PMs chooses four charities during the holiday season (including a homeless outreach and St. Jude's) and then donates $20 per every client to the charity the owner designates. 

    For those of us fortunate not only to have a roof over our own head, but also to be able to provide that to others, I think we have a responsibility to recognize that gift, and give back to society.  However, we can't do that if we're in financial trouble because of the harm caused by some of those we've allowed to live in our properties.

  • Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Nat C. Glad that you're safe. Could have been much worse, but you know that.

    You mentioned that you've helped other homeless persons previously without serious incident. That's really encouraging to hear.

    Personally, I love helping people in LA's skid row. More and more single Mom's, in addition to the normal group of drunks, addicts and crazies. A great many fit all three categories. I never go alone unless I'm at the Midnight Mission. 

    Compassion is one thing. Street sense is another. I'm guessing you have lots of both. However, somewhere there was a disconnect. You well duped by people who are so deep into their problems that they'd rather lie when the truth probably sounds better. 

    You could be angry at them. That's a loosing proposition because they are going to change and will continue their deceptive practice until law enforcement or their behavior (and street life) catch up with them. 

    You could be angry with yourself for being duped by con artists. You know that will not serve any constructive purpose. The bruises will heal, you'll move on and gain tremendous benefit from the experience. It's really a boundaries lesson for you.

    Going forward, remember that you're in the property business and will be exposed to crazy, dangerous people. Homeless shelters are best left to groups to run. Whether Salvation Army or a local effort, they have rules and are careful because the groups gave learned on anvils of experience what works best, is safest and most effective. 

    Be safe because if you're not here, you're not able to help. 

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    next time you get a "down and out" couple give them $100 cash and wish them luck, 

    read your landlord tenancy laws, 

    have a great eviction attorney on your team

    @Nat C.

  • Castile, NY · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Never put someone in your home without a lease

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