Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Marci Stein You made the mistake of verbally agreeing that he could do the work. Lesson learned. At this point, I would do two things:
1. Treat this as work you hired someone to do. Check it for quality and talk to the tenant about it as a customer of a handyman would.
2. Insist one rent being paid in full on time every time. If you hire the tenant to do something, ask them to send you some sort of invoice (even if just an informal email saying what they did). Pay that invoice with a separate check independent of rent.
3. Don't do it again. As someone else said, don't get in the business of crediting rent for things - it gets cloudy very quickly. Treat these things as separate transactions.
It's only $400. Don't go to the mat over it. Tenants will make mistakes repeatedly ... Landlords should only make them once. Learn, and don't let it happen again.
Investor · Reggello, Toscana · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 4 votes
10y
Get receipts from paint and materials. Check on his work. If it is up to par, pay him. Not by reducing rent. If unsure about how much to pay, get an estimate and pay him what it would have cost you had some one else did the work. Once you determine the correct amount to pay, tell him you will pay him in installments (three or four) since that's what you would have worked out with another painter. Done deal. Do not go to small claims court for this.
Quick answer: if $400 is okay with you, go right to the installment conversation and you're set. Good luck!
I definitely recommend you speak with an attorney if the situation calls for it, as I am not a lawyer, nor should this be considered legal advice.
With that said, it is my understanding that your lease likely falls within the limitations of the Statute of Frauds and, as such, would technically require a written, fully-executed agreement between both parties in order to make binding modifications to the terms.
Personally, I wouldn't stand for someone trying to pull a fast one on me like that. I think it sets a bad precedence and I've found that the ole 'give 'em and inch and they take a mile' cliche tends to be supremely true with most tenants.
tenant informed he painted the house and wants to pay half the rent (400 not 800).
He reminded me that when he moved in last year I said if he paints i will reduce rent,
but never said how much. This was to be a discussion before-- not after- the paint.
If he had asked me before I would have said i will paint house (I really need the rent money.)
BUt he took it upon himself. Do I now have to take money from the rent because he did the
work, even though I never asked him to?
Well, Marci, you kinda did ask him to paint. You just didn't set the terms clearly. On this one, I think you need to take a deep breath.
I'd say, first go see what he did. Is it worth $400? Paying someone to paint is really expensive. If it's worth $400 or more, I'd say to go ahead and let him take $400 off next month's rent.
Then, put something in writing that is a receipt, but that also tells him no more work is to be done, and no more rent reductions will be approved, is my advice. Something like:
Dear Tenant:
This is a receipt for the painting you have done on the unit. As you requested, I have given you permission to deduct $400 from your June, 2016 rent, as payment in full for the painting that you did.
I consider this a concession, as we had not discussed the details of my mentioning that I would reduce your rent for painting. However, this time I do agree that what you did was worth the $400.
Going forward, I will not approve any additional work or rent reductions or payments of any kind for any work that you do to the property, without having first put any agreements in writing and to be signed by both of us.
Sincerely,
You
And if you want to negotiate price, if it's not worth $400, you have the right to do that. Also, if you want to deduct $200 and then $200, etc., you have the right to negotiate that, too, because your agreement was not specific.
If he did a good job, you may have actually come out ahead. Heck, maybe he'll become your go-to painter :-)
Residential Real Estate Broker · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 506 posts · 311 votes
10y
To be blunt: no. Never allow a tenant to do work. The implied contract affects the lease relationship, which should always be kept separate and independent. Never sleep with one, never loan money, and never, ever offer an oral agreement outside of the lease contract.
Specialist · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
My personal experience is that this can become a very slippery slope with tenants. I had one that I thought I was doing a nice thing and helping them out.. it soon became a conversation that they were replacing light bulbs and wanted money off their rent.
When I finally put a stop to it all I was the bad person and there was some serious friction because I was perceived to have gone back on my word. Eventually the tenant left and when they did and I actually saw the paint work they did it was horrible!!! It cost me twice as much to cover up their job, there was paint on the other walls it did not match any other part of the home. I ended up losing on that deal.
From now on no tenant is allowed to do any modifications to a property. If the want something then they have to pay for a professional painter that my company must approve and when they vacate the premises they have to pay to have the unit repainted back to the color they moved in and accepted the property in. We do not make exceptions on this rule.
Again this was my experience and how I fixed it, and yes we put this in our addendums of our lease that they have to acknowledge and sign at lease signing.
Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Marci Stein You made the mistake of verbally agreeing that he could do the work. Lesson learned. At this point, I would do two things:
1. Treat this as work you hired someone to do. Check it for quality and talk to the tenant about it as a customer of a handyman would.
2. Insist one rent being paid in full on time every time. If you hire the tenant to do something, ask them to send you some sort of invoice (even if just an informal email saying what they did). Pay that invoice with a separate check independent of rent.
3. Don't do it again. As someone else said, don't get in the business of crediting rent for things - it gets cloudy very quickly. Treat these things as separate transactions.
It's only $400. Don't go to the mat over it. Tenants will make mistakes repeatedly ... Landlords should only make them once. Learn, and don't let it happen again.
Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
btw: Painting one interior room can cost $400, if he did the whole exterior it will be much higher.
My lease clearly states, "Leasee is not allowed to make any improvements or alterations without explicit written approval" and during the move-in walk through, I read and have him/her initial every paragraph.
I also second the motion that tenants should never be allowed if only due to the suspect quality.
Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes
10y
it does stink. Unfortunately, any discussion you had without the definitely "NO" can lead to this. You mention you need the money, but consider this a very cheap lessons learned scenario.
Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes
10y
also, as others have mentioned, do not reduce the rent for the month(s). Pay him with a invoice and get receipts so you can write off the job and materials.
Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes
10y
@Marci Stein, I have to agree on several things already mentioned here:
- Never do an oral agreement of any kind with a tenant. Do it in writing with specific terms and have both parties sign.
- Inspect work and pay going rate for paint job. Use what @Sue Kelley posted above to ensure tenant does no more "improvements" without your written consent. However, I'd still charge the full month's rent and issue a separate payment to tenant for the job. Personally, I would not trust a tenant to paint my property unless he was a licensed painter because of all the preparation and skill it involves.
- I would nip in the bud this reduced rent in exchange for work strategy tenant is using. If your lease is vague or doesn't include wording about a tenant's ability to alter or do repairs to the property only with your written consent, see if it is possible to amend the lease; the tenant-landlord laws of your state may allow you to serve a notice so this does not happen again. In the future, make sure language in the lease addresses this.
You want to avoid having a tenant work on your property for a few reasons: The work may be done poorly and you'll have to redo it; the tenant may become injured doing the work and bring a lawsuit against you; it muddies the waters of your existing relationship.
The most I allow my tenants to do is change out the smoke detector batteries if needed- even that is in the lease.
Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2011 · 355 posts · 90 votes
10y
@Marci Stein - the worst part of this is not the painting or the fact that the tenant wants a rent reduction or any of that - it's that "you really need the rent money." That's a big problem, and one you need to address as an emergency. If there is no other way for you to improve your monthly headroom and stockpile some liquid assets, then your best bet is probably to sell this property.
Specialist · Lakewood, CO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
I NEVER give a discount on rent for ANY situation. Did I mention NEVER? If there is ever any special situation where I have decided to return them money I will collect the full rent and them pay them whatever I chose to pay them. If you allow reduced rent, you set a bad precedent and create the mindset that rent is negotiable.
Does your written lease state that tenant cannot make alterations? If so, you can choose whichever way you want to go with this, but remember that your tenant will decide what kind of landlord they have when you do it. I really like what @Thomas Landenberger said about installments. It sounds like you have failed in your job to have a reserve and this is a good way to spread out the pain.
It sounds like a relatively inexpensive learning process, so that is a good thing and definitely in your favor. Now get off your butt and get your reserves in place, make sure your lease is tight, and always set the expectations so that would not have happened! Tenants are expected to do their job poorly. You are a business owner, time to put on those pants.
Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2015 · 61 posts · 17 votes
10y
Sounds like he was well-intended to me. I would ask for the full rent and then reimburse him back for the receipts that he has immediately. This would be better tracking for your purposes. I typically do not pay my tenants for the "labor". If he feels that he should be paid for labor, ask for a bill for his work. If your cash flow is tight, perhaps you can pay him over a couple of months. Make it clear about the hourly you are willing to pay for in the future. No more improvements without prior approval if they want to get paid back.
Investor · Massillon, OH · Member since 2015 · 266 posts · 156 votes
10y
I have some tenants that fix small stuff and send me receipts for money off rent. I think that's fair. If there was 2 week old paint on the house why did he repaint? Just didn't like the color? My thought on that would be to tell them that you can not pay for the work unless you raise the rent. I wouldn't pay you for time and materials to add a garage on and keep my rent the same, the paint was fine it wasn't a maintenance issue. If I'm reading this right, this is their first month in the place? Set some boundaries