Rental Property Investor · Trabuco Canyon, CA · Member since 2014 · 134 posts · 78 votes
I had some break-ins in my apartment complex so I installed 8 cameras around the apartment complex. None of the tenants objected before the video equipment was installed. But after the installation one of them didn't like the placement of one of the cameras (because it was capturing the path going to her apartment) so they are constantly hitting the camera with a long stick until it starts pointing to the roof.
What can I do to make them stop messing up with the cameras. I am getting tired of that cat-and-mouse game: they are moving the camera and then I have to hire someone to fix it back. Any Ideas even the stupid ones are acceptable.
Hey @Matthew Kreitzer I agree with @James DeRoest this is hardly a criminal matter. The police will tell you it is a civil matter. Pushing the camera to change viewing angle is hardly criminal. It may even be hard to evict someone for this because they could argue it was a violation of their privacy. Not everybody is comforted at the idea of cameras watching their every move. It doesn't mean they are doing anything illegal. I would talk to the tenant and try to find a resolution, otherwise eviction is probably your only recourse. Just hope you get a good judge that isn't a privacy rights advocate.
Disagree from a legal perspective. According to the California Penal Code, one may maintain a criminal action for Trespass to Chattels should someone interfere with the property of another without permission. Many states allow for one to bring a criminal action a number of different ways. Many of those ways do not even require the involvement of police officers. For instance, in Virginia, one may send a certified criminal complaint to the local commonwealth attorney to bypass the police. Alternatively, a person can go down the magistrate and have a sworn complaint done to bypass the police.
What he did was illegal according to the California Penal Code, and there are options available for someone to pursue this should they wish to punish the individual.
Now that does not mean it is a good idea to pursue this. I am merely speaking academically at this point. Yes (in my opinion), the tenant is committing continued criminal trespass to his property. Yes (in my opinion), he could be prosecuted. No (in my opinion), you do not have to listen to police.
Disclaimer: I am not licensed in California. If you have a California legal issue, consult California counsel. It may or may not be a good idea to pursue the criminal route. I cannot advise you on this matter. Were this a Virginia case, I would focus on the Civil side of the equation as opposed to the criminal side, but an attorney in California may tell you different. The resolution of legal cases are highly fact specific, and you should consult a local attorney for more information about your particular case. None of the above should be taken as actionable legal advice, merely educational information.
Oh I was talking real world, not academic. You call the police and tell them one of your tenants pushed your security camera angled up with a stick and see what they say. I think the courts would find this a waste of their time and I am doubtful anyone would prosecute for it. The police and legal system are overwhelmed with real problems. I am a firm believer in practical advice.
Investor · King of Prussia, PA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 339 votes
10y
@Bobby Narinov since you know who is messing with the camera, she can either sign an addenda regarding not touching/damaging the camera (with charging her for any damage fees or have her move out) those. Unless you can place the camera in another section. Best of luck
Attorney · Winchester, VA · Member since 2015 · 726 posts · 387 votes
10y
You have both criminal and civil recourse here. For more information on a civil perspective, find a local attorney to file suit. For a criminal perspective, call local police.
Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
10y
It's not criminal. Cop will merely tell you that it's a dispute with a landlord. Even if it was criminal, cop isn't going to write the ticket.
I see two choices. Enforce a quit/cure notice or take the camera down. So her apartment gets broken into after that camera is removed, big deal, she had the camera removed.
Personally, I'd be wondering exactly who is going into the apartment if she doesn't want it recorded.
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
10y
Hey @Matthew Kreitzer I agree with @James DeRoest this is hardly a criminal matter. The police will tell you it is a civil matter. Pushing the camera to change viewing angle is hardly criminal. It may even be hard to evict someone for this because they could argue it was a violation of their privacy. Not everybody is comforted at the idea of cameras watching their every move. It doesn't mean they are doing anything illegal. I would talk to the tenant and try to find a resolution, otherwise eviction is probably your only recourse. Just hope you get a good judge that isn't a privacy rights advocate.
Hey @Matthew Kreitzer I agree with @James DeRoest this is hardly a criminal matter. The police will tell you it is a civil matter. Pushing the camera to change viewing angle is hardly criminal. It may even be hard to evict someone for this because they could argue it was a violation of their privacy. Not everybody is comforted at the idea of cameras watching their every move. It doesn't mean they are doing anything illegal. I would talk to the tenant and try to find a resolution, otherwise eviction is probably your only recourse. Just hope you get a good judge that isn't a privacy rights advocate.
Disagree from a legal perspective. According to the California Penal Code, one may maintain a criminal action for Trespass to Chattels should someone interfere with the property of another without permission. Many states allow for one to bring a criminal action a number of different ways. Many of those ways do not even require the involvement of police officers. For instance, in Virginia, one may send a certified criminal complaint to the local commonwealth attorney to bypass the police. Alternatively, a person can go down the magistrate and have a sworn complaint done to bypass the police.
What he did was illegal according to the California Penal Code, and there are options available for someone to pursue this should they wish to punish the individual.
Now that does not mean it is a good idea to pursue this. I am merely speaking academically at this point. Yes (in my opinion), the tenant is committing continued criminal trespass to his property. Yes (in my opinion), he could be prosecuted. No (in my opinion), you do not have to listen to police.
Disclaimer: I am not licensed in California. If you have a California legal issue, consult California counsel. It may or may not be a good idea to pursue the criminal route. I cannot advise you on this matter. Were this a Virginia case, I would focus on the Civil side of the equation as opposed to the criminal side, but an attorney in California may tell you different. The resolution of legal cases are highly fact specific, and you should consult a local attorney for more information about your particular case. None of the above should be taken as actionable legal advice, merely educational information.
Hey @Matthew Kreitzer I agree with @James DeRoest this is hardly a criminal matter. The police will tell you it is a civil matter. Pushing the camera to change viewing angle is hardly criminal. It may even be hard to evict someone for this because they could argue it was a violation of their privacy. Not everybody is comforted at the idea of cameras watching their every move. It doesn't mean they are doing anything illegal. I would talk to the tenant and try to find a resolution, otherwise eviction is probably your only recourse. Just hope you get a good judge that isn't a privacy rights advocate.
Disagree from a legal perspective. According to the California Penal Code, one may maintain a criminal action for Trespass to Chattels should someone interfere with the property of another without permission. Many states allow for one to bring a criminal action a number of different ways. Many of those ways do not even require the involvement of police officers. For instance, in Virginia, one may send a certified criminal complaint to the local commonwealth attorney to bypass the police. Alternatively, a person can go down the magistrate and have a sworn complaint done to bypass the police.
What he did was illegal according to the California Penal Code, and there are options available for someone to pursue this should they wish to punish the individual.
Now that does not mean it is a good idea to pursue this. I am merely speaking academically at this point. Yes (in my opinion), the tenant is committing continued criminal trespass to his property. Yes (in my opinion), he could be prosecuted. No (in my opinion), you do not have to listen to police.
Disclaimer: I am not licensed in California. If you have a California legal issue, consult California counsel. It may or may not be a good idea to pursue the criminal route. I cannot advise you on this matter. Were this a Virginia case, I would focus on the Civil side of the equation as opposed to the criminal side, but an attorney in California may tell you different. The resolution of legal cases are highly fact specific, and you should consult a local attorney for more information about your particular case. None of the above should be taken as actionable legal advice, merely educational information.
Oh I was talking real world, not academic. You call the police and tell them one of your tenants pushed your security camera angled up with a stick and see what they say. I think the courts would find this a waste of their time and I am doubtful anyone would prosecute for it. The police and legal system are overwhelmed with real problems. I am a firm believer in practical advice.
Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Sounds like you found out who has been messing up your building. Send a cure or quit, fine them, then take them to court with a few screen captures printed for the courts. Lets the judge decide what to do. I'm sure he will be swift.
Investor · Neptune Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 143 posts · 172 votes
10y
Seems like you came for advise and then lashed out at one person offering a potential solution. Like it or not, use it or not, you did ask for possible solutions.
Investor · Dickson, TN · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 7 votes
10y
This problem was brought up in another landlord forum, the landlord dealt with it by disguising the cameras in smoke alarms, fire extinguisher boxes and exit signs. This was for interior hallways and laundry room that was shared. You may need to do the same but outside on the roof. Disguise it in a light fixture or roof vent perhaps.
Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2012 · 39 posts · 12 votes
10y
Have you talked to her and told her that you had the cameras installed in order to help her? I'm sure she doesn't want anyone breaking into her apartment and she wants to feel safe in her home. If she see's it from that point of view, she may become one of your biggest supporters because you're doing it to help her and keep her safe.
Personally, I don't think I'd like someone recording my movements as well as everyone that comes in or out of my home. I understand why you're doing it. Has she been a good tenant before this? If so, is there a way to work with her so you can have the security that is necessary and she can have the privacy that she desires.
Send a letter to all the tenants informing them that they will be responsible for any fees that occur if you need to reposition or repair the cameras. But first, try to talk to her and see if you can work it out; why does she object to the cameras. Maybe she scratches her butt as she walks down the path to her apartment and doesn't want anyone to see it.
Rental Property Investor · Trabuco Canyon, CA · Member since 2014 · 134 posts · 78 votes
10y
@Susan Pompea Thank you for the advice. I did talked to her before installing the cameras and she really wanted it because she wanted "all those druggies to be taped on camera" but she didn't think that some of the cameras will point at her as well. I think she got what she wished for but now she doesn't like it anymore. I told her I cannot target only certain people in the apartment complex because I have to treat everyone equally (good and/bad). She seemed to agree with me but after I left, I got the accident recorded on camera.
I did served her with a notice and got my maintenance guy to fix it. So far she is complying but I also found out why is she complaining as well: her adult son is visiting during the day her quite often bringing his drinking buddies and are making a scene in front of the other tenants cursing and giving everyone dual hand 3 finger salutes. I gave her a notice to correct that one as well. We'll see how it will go after that.
As they say, In real estate you either make money or you are learning. So far I AM learning A LOT with this apartment complex.
Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2012 · 39 posts · 12 votes
10y
It sounds like you have done everything you can and should do. I'd like to know how it turns out.
I totally agree with you. I only have one rental house and I've learned a lot! I can't imagine what it must be like owning an apartment building! I've rented in the past and I always appreciated it when I was treated fair and with respect. It sounds like you are doing that. Sometimes I don't like the "Us vs Them" tone in this forum. Being a landlord is a people business as well as a balancing act. You have to balance your renters wants and rights with your own financial, personal and legal interests--as well as the other tenants right to live in a safe, clean and quiet environment.