Contrarian Landlording

Ihe O.

OP

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

10y

Originally posted by @James Wise:

No good deed goes unpunished.

True. We gave a tenant a months free rent. All told her eviction cost us $15k. We're still here.

0 Reply

Bryan O.

Specialist · Lakewood, CO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

10y

@Ihe O. it's a shame you missed the metaphor.

You are relying on anecdotal evidence to support your strategy when it is known that it is poor practice. It sounds like you have been bitten by it in the past to the tune of $15k (at least once) and that you did not learn from it. Still being here does not mean you have done a good job. The likelihood is that you have performed poorly compared to someone in the same situation that ran their business professionally.

I hope the cylinder you are playing Russian Roulette with has many more chances. Best of luck.

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Sarah Larbi

Rental Property Investor · Oakville/ Brantford, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 147 posts · 91 votes

10y

I don't think you will find too many other contrarians on BP as most of us are here to learn the best way to do things, then act in that manner and run this business as efficiently as possible. Maybe you would have more luck finding others like you on a non educational site or on the streets. You can run your business however you chose and if that works for you then great but it is just not how most of us like to roll. I hope not but I think one day you will wish you took more preventative measures.

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Kevin Manz

HVAC Tech · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 223 votes

10y

Originally posted by @James Wise:

No good deed goes unpunished.

Why did you fire him

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Ihe O.

OP

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

10y

@Bryan O.

The metaphor was an opinion aggrandized by likening it to a scientific fact so I ignored it.

Correction we kept a $1k security deposit so we lost $14k. Wanna know the breakdown.

$3500 was rent lost waiting or the eviction date.

There were $175 of damages and a $500 unpaid water bill.

We had a 3 1/2 month vacancy. You see we do and always have had vetting and selection criteria although it's probably not what you think it should be. $4k was lost waiting for a tenant that satisfied our criteria.

$7k was spent on voluntary upgrades to the property.

The business was strong enough to bear the vacancy and pay for the upgrades and we managed it without any of the luck you keep wishing us.

That's why I said we are still here.

0 Reply

Ihe O.

OP

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

10y

@Bryan O. @Account Closed We didn't start out intending to not credit check. Our vetting process is such that by the time we are in a position to pull someone's credit we already knew that it wasn't going to affect our decision.

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Michael Noto

Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

10y

It is very conceivable a landlord could get lucky for 3 years. Not screening your tenants will eventually burn you.

You're not even willing to admit that your practices are risky?

1 Reply

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

10y

Sorry I bothered to contribute to this at all.

Congrats on being my first ignored user @Ihe O.

Anyone else ever use the ignore button before?

1 Reply

Ihe O.

OP

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

10y

Perfect timing.

0 Reply

Bryan O.

Specialist · Lakewood, CO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

10y

@Ihe O. I hope whoever hires your wife to manage their complexes still require the basic due diligence on their tenants. I never missed that "crucial fact" because it is irrelevant. Poor screening will always be poor screening regardless of how many years they have been doing it. I have more IT knowledge than most anyone I've met, but I'm still going to do basic diagnostics for problems. Anyone that does otherwise is simply arrogant and not yet burnt enough (or smart enough) to learn. I understand what you are saying because I've met people that had to burn their hands 4 or 5 times as children before they learned. Best of luck, because that is what you rely on.

1 Reply

Ihe O.

OP

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

10y

@Bryan O. Then you haven't met enough people. I wish you what you keep wishing me.

1 Reply

Kevin Schulte

MHP Investor · Green Valley, AZ · Member since 2013 · 85 posts · 26 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

then when I get really frustrated with these folks I just post on BP I have free duplex and I just give the sucker away.. that ends that tenant issue... :)

I can sleep at night knowing you do that, just pm me next time first ok? :)

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James DeRoest

Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes

10y

Err. Not entirely sure I should be used to back anything up really. I'm so laid back that I do drywall mudding in flipflops. Actually, I do most of my renovations in flipflops. Not cheap flipflops, these ones cost $15 from Wal*mart.

1 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes

10y

My only question is WHY? Do you really think you get better returns this way? Do you have any data to suggest that your way is a better way? Simply being cash flow positive is not an indicator of success. It's quite a useless metric actually. I'd like to know why you think your way is better than the conventional wisdom and how it gets you Bette returns. We are not here to survive so just still being here is not a good result.

2 Reply

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

10y

@James DeRoest

I do most of my renovations in flipflops

This is the perfect statement to illustrate the points of this thread.

Being laid back should not equate to being unsafe. I am also a very laid back person. I never enter any job site or work location without wearing safety boots, safety glasses etc.

Exactly the same principals apply to being a landlord. One may choose to ignoring certain standard practices that are in place as a result of millions of landlords dealing with millions of tenants since the beginning of our business.

There is no reason one could not work construction without safety equipment but there are proven valid reasons for being safe.

0 Reply

Penny ClarkPro Member

Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes

10y

@Ihe O. I think it's great you have a tenant retention plan in place and your tenants must love your style of doing business. However, I think you're practicing landlord roulette and sooner or later the bullet comes.

Good luck!

1 Reply

Sylvia B.

Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

10y

Yes, I am a contrarian landlord.

The majority of landlords in my area own run down houses, put as little into them as possible, and rent to anyone who has one month rent. They charge $300-400/month in rent, and considering the condition of the property, even that pittance is a ripoff. Most of them have turnovers at least twice/year, some much more often. They like to complain about how their tenants trash their houses and don't pay on time.

We own (debt-free) 10 rentals, all purchased since 6/2012.
Total investment (purchase + rehab) in each property ranges from $38k to $92k.
We charge top dollar (in our area) for rents and are very picky about who we accept.
We have had 0 evictions, 2 turnovers with 2 weeks vacancy, and 2 late payments, each of which included a late fee and notice ahead of time that it would be late.
We rarely run credit checks as we are able to find out what we need to know other ways, but have their info on file if we need it.
Our average yearly ROI in that time is 14.7%.

We are contrarian, and it works. -- You simply have to know what to be contrary to.

3 Reply

James DeRoest

Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

@James DeRoest

I do most of my renovations in flipflops

This is the perfect statement to illustrate the points of this thread.

Being laid back should not equate to being unsafe. I am also a very laid back person. I never enter any job site or work location without wearing safety boots, safety glasses etc.

FFS grow a sense of humor.

0 Reply

Bill SchrimpfBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Reno, NV · Member since 2014 · 349 posts · 189 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

I have never paid more than $30k for a house.

I have never run a credit check or asked for a credit report on anybody who has applied to rent any of my properties.

I have never asked a tenant for their SSN, DOB or any other form of PII http://bit.ly/1mmC2Xo

I have tenants who are late every month. I rarely levy late fees even when the tenant is late.

I have never filed for eviction in the same month of a missed rent payment.

I allow pets in all my houses (subject to insurance restrictions)

I reduced the rent of a tenant who witheld rent, took me to rent escrow court and lost.

I am usually the lone voice on the minority side of discussions relating to these issues.

So how am I doing.

Well couple of months short of completing my 3rd year.

Total Rents Collected - about $100k.

Number of evictions - 1

Rent Arrearage - about $2k

Total number of months of vacancy - 9

Total Unrecoverable Rent - about $3500

I run a business but I do what makes sense to me rather than what everybody else does.

I'm a contrarian landlord.

Are you?

I'm surprised by the overwhelming tone here, BP is generally a supportive place! BP by its very nature is contrarian! @ihe o. is doing something out of the norm, shaking off the shackles of the W4, leaving the rat race, etc.. I'm curious how he's managed to keep what appears to be risky behaviors under control. I want to know the tools implemented rather than lambasting for not following the sage advice. Maybe I can learn something...

Gotta say though, it's interesting the Original Poster is a data miner but seems to disregard data on REI. Maybe you found other key data others aren't looking at?

[email protected]775-741-2326

ERA Realty Central - Bill Schrimpf58 Reviews

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1 Reply

Ihe O.

OP

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Bill Schrimpf:

Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

I have never paid more than $30k for a house.

I have never run a credit check or asked for a credit report on anybody who has applied to rent any of my properties.

I have never asked a tenant for their SSN, DOB or any other form of PII http://bit.ly/1mmC2Xo

I have tenants who are late every month. I rarely levy late fees even when the tenant is late.

I have never filed for eviction in the same month of a missed rent payment.

I allow pets in all my houses (subject to insurance restrictions)

I reduced the rent of a tenant who witheld rent, took me to rent escrow court and lost.

I am usually the lone voice on the minority side of discussions relating to these issues.

So how am I doing.

Well couple of months short of completing my 3rd year.

Total Rents Collected - about $100k.

Number of evictions - 1

Rent Arrearage - about $2k

Total number of months of vacancy - 9

Total Unrecoverable Rent - about $3500

I run a business but I do what makes sense to me rather than what everybody else does.

I'm a contrarian landlord.

Are you?

I'm surprised by the overwhelming tone here, BP is generally a supportive place! BP by its very nature is contrarian! @ihe o. is doing something out of the norm, shaking off the shackles of the W4, leaving the rat race, etc.. I'm curious how he's managed to keep what appears to be risky behaviors under control. I want to know the tools implemented rather than lambasting for not following the sage advice. Maybe I can learn something...

Gotta say though, it's interesting the Original Poster is a data miner but seems to disregard data on REI. Maybe you found other key data others aren't looking at?

Hi Bill. Perhaps you could elaborate on what REI data is being disregarded and I could answer.

0 Reply

Michael G.

Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2013 · 272 posts · 165 votes

9y

Unique, interesting thread. I suppose the best way to be a Contrarian Landlord - though it's not really so contrarian - is to actually be a good person and to think of Tenants as customers to be treated with respect.

As they develop more and more of a solid track-record, you can let Rental payments that are 3-6 days late slide a bit more, and offer other benefits such as reduced increases when their Leases are up for renewal, fast service when the maintenance calls come in, keep the hallways & common areas really nice, new & clean, etc...

In any event, professionalism is the key no matter what, imho.

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