Bought building with no parking - crazy person! Any solutions?

Bought building with no parking - crazy person! Any solutions?

Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes

Well, I would have liked my first "I just bought a rental property" post to be a bit more of a brag, but it isn't! I bought an apparently nicely cash flowing property (better than the 2% rule) in a flood zone in the bad part of an already run down small Vermont city. Assuming decent occupancy, the numbers work well, even with good flood insurance, but that may be assuming a lot. Unfortunately, I let my concerns about flooding distract me from the much more serious handicap of no, and I mean NO, parking. The building has four 3-bedroom units and four tight fitting curbside parking spaces. However, from November to May the city has an on-street parking ban from 11:00 pm until 6:00 am. During the winter months there is literally nowhere to park. There is no room around the building to squeeze in more than, extremely optimistically, maybe two cars. The business across the street had been allowing my tenants to park in his lot in the winter if they paid him $200 for the season, but they abused the privilege, messed up his plowing, parked more than the allowed number of cars, etc. He says that this year he will put up a fence and allow no parking. 

Aside from the obvious nuisance of no parking, this limitation means that I have a very reduced tenant pool in an area that already has pretty shady tenants. I was expecting to rent to a lot of Section 8 tenants, but now I realize I will mostly need to rent to those without cars, which often means they don't have much employment, either. I also learned today that this part of town has a lot of addict tenants because it is within walking distance of the courthouse where they need to check in periodically and many of them have had their licenses taken away. I really thought this purchase through well!

Have any of you faced a similar situation? If so, did you come up with any clever solutions? I would like to come up with a solution which is secure going forward, so that it can increase the value of the building. 

Ideas I am considering are: 

1. Offering to pay some of the cost of the fence for the business across the street and paying also for a security gate to be installed. Charging tenants perhaps $30/month/car to use the lot, giving them secure access to the lot, and paying the owner of the lot a set amount at the beginning of the winter for each car that tenants plan to park there. Is there a way to do this so that the agreement goes with the deed on both my property and the property of the business across the street? What would be the incentive for the guy across the street to agree to such an arrangement, given that he wants to sell his business sometime in the next few years? Is a little extra income enough of an incentive?

2. Buying a 2 bedroom house about 1 1/2 blocks up the street that has a side yard that could be made into parking for at least 8 cars, if I could get it for a very cheap price. Again, is there a way to have my parking arrangement on the deed of both properties so that future buyers of either one would see the arrangement as an asset rather than a liability? Is buying another property in this neighborhood just throwing good money after bad? At least the second property is elevated above the flood zone...

3. Figuring out something other than providing parking that would make my apartments appealing to some particular segment of the population that would pay rent and be decent tenants. (Too bad this city is too small for bicycle messenger fleets.) They are good sized, decent apartments. Each is two floors. They each have a basement (which may get wet!). They each have a sunny backyard in which tenants could have a garden. The building is 2 blocks from a bus line with hourly buses. I own three other units and am a very responsive landlord, fixing things promptly and staying in communication with tenants.

Any brilliant ideas out there? Please!

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San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y

@Wendy Forbes @Thomas S. I don't think you necessarily have to rent to druggies.  And Section 8 renters are not all horrible people.  They can just be low income seniors who actually have great credit, but only live on SSI or Social Security.

I have a few ideas to throw out at you.  Why not look into renting the house to an organization that does one of the following:

SROs (single room occupancy).  They rent rooms out to low income single tenants.  The tenants may be disabled or just low income, including low income seniors.  Normally they rent a room with just a microwave in it, and they can share a bath, and they often have a community kitchen.

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/hudprogra...

http://cotsonline.org/our-mission/cots-housing/

http://www.vhcb.org/SharedHousingArticle.html

SLEs (sober living environments).  There are companies who specialize in these.  They rent rooms out to people who have just come out of recovery.

http://www.phoenixhouse.org/locations/vermont/phoe...

Halfway houses (sometimes the same as sober living environments, or just for those freshly out of prison):

http://granitehousesl.com/links/vermont-mens-halfw...

http://recoveryhousevt.org/

http://riverbankhouse.net/vermont-mens-sober-livin...

Anyway, I just did some Googling.  But, you may be able to find a long-term tenant with an organization who is your tenant, who then rents out the rooms.

Just do some calling.  You never know.  Good luck.

It does make a point to investors, though, in that you really need to think ahead regarding who you would market your rentals to, and what they'll need.  Sometimes a place is a "good" deal for a good reason.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    ouch, ouch.  charging people 30 bucks they probably won't have to begin with, does not seem viable to me. 

    I think you found out why you got a 2 percent building.

    keep us posted 

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Sell it.  Take whatever hit and get out now.  This problem will be ongoing, and never get any better.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    First of all, Section 8 tenants may not have any employment at all.  So, that's not really an issue.

    How hard is it for Section 8 tenants to find units like yours with or without parking?  If Section 8 units are hard to find, you may still find you have plenty of applicants.

    Try advertising them as units with no parking.  That they're great for tenants who don't have any cars, and the bus stop is 2 blocks away - and see what happens.

    Definitely don't (in my opinion) start buying more property to try to make this one work.

    But, if you can still make money renting to tenants who don't have cars to park, you might still do okay.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    Adjust your tenant demographics catering to those without licences. Section 8, druggies etc.

    The area is what it is and you need to go with it or sell. There is money to be made in low end rentals but you must accept the fact that there will be more management issues associated with it. 

    The situation may not be as bad as you think if you simply adjust your thinking.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Wendy Forbes @Thomas S. I don't think you necessarily have to rent to druggies.  And Section 8 renters are not all horrible people.  They can just be low income seniors who actually have great credit, but only live on SSI or Social Security.

    I have a few ideas to throw out at you.  Why not look into renting the house to an organization that does one of the following:

    SROs (single room occupancy).  They rent rooms out to low income single tenants.  The tenants may be disabled or just low income, including low income seniors.  Normally they rent a room with just a microwave in it, and they can share a bath, and they often have a community kitchen.

    http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/hudprogra...

    http://cotsonline.org/our-mission/cots-housing/

    http://www.vhcb.org/SharedHousingArticle.html

    SLEs (sober living environments).  There are companies who specialize in these.  They rent rooms out to people who have just come out of recovery.

    http://www.phoenixhouse.org/locations/vermont/phoe...

    Halfway houses (sometimes the same as sober living environments, or just for those freshly out of prison):

    http://granitehousesl.com/links/vermont-mens-halfw...

    http://recoveryhousevt.org/

    http://riverbankhouse.net/vermont-mens-sober-livin...

    Anyway, I just did some Googling.  But, you may be able to find a long-term tenant with an organization who is your tenant, who then rents out the rooms.

    Just do some calling.  You never know.  Good luck.

    It does make a point to investors, though, in that you really need to think ahead regarding who you would market your rentals to, and what they'll need.  Sometimes a place is a "good" deal for a good reason.

  • Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed thank! I will definitely follow up on these suggestions. Actually, I've been considering basing part of my business on renting to the supportive housing market so perhaps this building will work well for that. It just may be in a difficult neighborhood for people trying to turn their lives around. 

    I have also been thinking along the lines of your suggestion to specifically market to people without cars, emphasizing garden space, bus, etc.

    I'll post an update after finding my first tenants!

  • Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    @Thomas S. I like your advice to shift my attitude. Thanks for the positive outlook!

  • Investor · San Marcos, TX · Member since 2015 · 272 posts · 360 votes
    10y

    There are places that are "conservators" (hopefully the correct term) for disabled people that include disabled veterans. Usually these people have no family or their family is ill-equipped to deal with them. The conservators can be court appointed and handle the finances for multiple disabled people including receiving and dispersing social security or VA income. I would suggest that you start marketing towards this demographic. Disabled people on fixed income usually do not drive, they can be good tenants and the conservator pays their bills. Finding them housing can be a big issue. There can be far more demand for housing that caters to these individuals than there is housing.

    If it was me I would sell. 

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    ok so maybe you can take the DUI tenants that the other landlords are screening out.  Two choices, get parking or cater to those that don't need it.  For now I think you have tenants that need notice that their behavior has resulted in no winter parking. 

    Get Parking. Can't the parking go  in the sunny back yard? Can you convert what you said could be two spaces and charge the apartments that get them for parking? (reduces your need for spaces some). Any eyesores nearby you could look to turn into parking. Can you purchase any parking outright off the business or are they using it all.

    Catering to those that don't need parking. Advertise location in relation to downtown. Advertise close to bus stop. Cater to seniors who don't drive.  I thought short term rental but Nov - May no street parking is a long time.  Find a social service agency to work with that has your target non-driving tenant pool  maybe target a first offender program. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    I would talk to an engineer. They somehow manage to come up with a solution to these sorts of problems in the most practical ways. Try and see if any of your close friends know an engineer and see if they can give you some sort of advice. If you have to pay for one to come out there and take a look, it might be worth it for them to figure out the best possible solution.

  • Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Wow! Great suggestions. Thanks, everyone. Unfortunately, I own about 4 feet on each side of the building abutting the next door driveways and there is tight parking in the driveways of the apartment houses on either side. I have been looking for a way to negotiate with the neighbors for a little more land to allow access to the backyard, but there isn't really room to maneuver a car in the backyard even if cars could gain access to it. I doubt an engineer could find any space either, though I may consult one just to see if s/he has any creative ideas. I have a feeling I'm just going to have to work the "rethinking my market" angle.

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I have to agree with Wayne Brooks on this one ... the parking problems may be fixable, but the property will still be in a bad neighborhood with sketchy tenants. 

    Strictly speaking in terms of financials, your best move may very well be to take your lumps and sell. You can try to hold and see if you can make it work, and you will likely get some valuable experience and lessons that way, but think you may lose more money and ultimately end up with the same solution. I would NOT put a bunch more money into this property or surrounding property to try to remedy the parking situation, at least not until you can prove that you are willing and able to handle the tenant base, as this would likely be throwing good money after bad IMO.

  • Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    My current thinking is that I will do the minimal renovations I'd planned, lease it up as well as I can, and put it on the market when I have a year of rents to show. I purchased it with financing at 2.75 percent, but figured my numbers assuming a 6 percent mortgage.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    10y

    Just sounds like based on what you put in your initial post that due diligence was hurried and incomplete and you bought wrong.

    These properties in those areas with those types of renters are "headache" properties. Some investors see those as a personal challenge to succeed. I see it as an investment I never want to own ever.

    The reason is I can own much higher quality assets that meet my goals without the headaches or impact to my quality of life. Having those types of tenants I have seen suck the life out of other landlords over time.

    I will take an easy 12% all day long versus a hard 16% return for a highly intensive asset.

    Sounds like for the next year you might have to endure having a job with this property until you can unload it.

    Do any of the surrounding property owners want it? They might take it off of your hands to add it into their existing portfolio that is local in the area.

  • Investor · Georgia, GA · Member since 2015 · 29 posts · 21 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    Just sounds like based on what you put in your initial post that due diligence was hurried and incomplete and you bought wrong.

    These properties in those areas with those types of renters are "headache" properties. Some investors see those as a personal challenge to succeed. I see it as an investment I never want to own ever.

    The reason is I can own much higher quality assets that meet my goals without the headaches or impact to my quality of life. Having those types of tenants I have seen suck the life out of other landlords over time.

    I will take an easy 12% all day long versus a hard 16% return for a highly intensive asset.

    Sounds like for the next year you might have to endure having a job with this property until you can unload it.

    Do any of the surrounding property owners want it? They might take it off of your hands to add it into their existing portfolio that is local in the area.

     Yes, I agree with Joel. A property without parking can be a headache for tenants involve. Not a good investment. 

    Also, I use to live on South Beach. They have similar signs for street parking restricting  11 PM to 6 AM. Afraid, of getting my car towed at night, i went straight to the city parking department and bought a residential decal. It saved me the headache of renting a parking spot in the garage daily. 

      You can find more advice from nextdoor landlords, how they deal with the parking situation. Many cities will often work with you, if you're a resident in that neighborhood. 

    goodluck 

  • Investor · Lyndonville, VT · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    I say rent it out and advertise it as being close to the bus stop. Take this as an experience and a learning lesson (a good one for me too). 

    I am not sure what city you purchased this building in, however, my experience in some other small run down cities in Vermont (depending on where they are) is that there are lost of clean, honest, people mixed into those neighborhoods. 

    And lots of younger people don't have or want cars if they are in the city. 

  • Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    @John Anderson, I am working on ways to cover the parking for my tenants. I agree they shouldn't have to pay for it.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Wendy Forbes:

    @John Anderson, I am working on ways to cover the parking for my tenants. I agree they shouldn't have to pay for it.

     I disagree that tenants shouldn't have to pay for their parking.  Whoa, that was a bunch of negatives lol - what I'm trying to say is that I think if there are properties in a city block that don't have parking, the tenants should know that (if it's common) and that it wouldn't be weird for them to pay for parking.

    Just a couple of examples: A lot of subsidized senior affordable apartments are being built all over CA, in conjunction with funding from various govt agencies, with the purpose of revitalizing downtown areas.  What is done, is they completely refurbish an old hotel.  And parking is not usually included.  It's up to the tenants to figure out their parking.

    On place I looked at in downtown Santa Rosa, for instance, only has the option of parking in the city parking garages, and the closest one with any openings when I was looking, was several blocks away.  I would have had to pay for a monthly pass, and walk several blocks to and from my car.

    The last place I lived in downtown Redding, was the same situation.  We could buy a city sticker that allowed us to park only in certain parking spots that were interspersed with metered spots.  Those would fill up fast, and that meant I often had to park at least a block away.

    So, no.  It's not mandatory to offer parking - heck, not even for senior citizens.  Their ads just say there is no parking on the property, and parking permits can be purchased from the city.

  • Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    That's helpful, Susan. Our city has very limited spaces for 24 hour parking permits, but that is an option I can give tenants.

  • Seattle Tacoma, WA · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Wendy It seems to me that you're enjoying yourself. You're not by any chance a MARTYR? Cause it appears you gotten in over your head on this property, while at the same time, you already made up your mind not to sell for at least another year? WOW!!! Therefore, why give tenants any options? Parking is their responsibility if they wish to own a car and if not, they are free to move elsewhere, end of discussion. Plus I agree with all the above posts whom have offered some wonderful feedback to follow through with. Mainly like SELL NOW! Then buy properties more in the B-C grade communities versus the D-F areas of town, in which your operating in now. Remember your going after a lifestyle kind of living not a never ending nightmare which this seem to be. Let us know when you unload this headache. 

  • Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    @Dodie Dawson, will keep you posted. Once I have all four apartments rented I will put it on the market. In the meantime, I will be taking much of the advice given to me above in order to find decent tenants.
    @Dodie Dawson

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Wendy Forbes,

    Have you approached the city about some provisions for your tenants with regard to overnight parking permits?

  • Chelsea, VT · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    @David Dachtera, yes I have. There are very limited permit parking areas within walking distance of the building, but that may be the best solution until I can sell it.

  • Rental Property Investor · Phila, PA · Member since 2015 · 276 posts · 111 votes
    10y

    First, @Wendy Forbes - big congrats on your first purchase! It is a big step and wanted to acknowledge. So there are prolly things you could have thought thru better; don't know anyone who could say they didn't make any mistakes on their first. Bet you'll never forget to consider parking on any future deals! Lesson learned.

    I'm not very familiar with section 8, do they require parking?  If not, attempt to rent it before implementing big ticket solutions. IMHO, stop feeding the entitlement mentality. There are several streets in my area that do not allow parking during winter months.  These homeowners don't get to park their cars in front of their house and must walk around the corner or whatever to get their cars during this time. It really IS okay.

     Include something in the building/unit that many local section 8 properties don't normally offer. 

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