Hi everyone, So I am getting closer to finding a tenant for my first SFH rental. It has taken me exceptionally long, probably because it is my first time going through the process. This is probably a C-class house with C-class tenant-base. My biggest challenge has been finding a serious, responsible tenant. This week I finally found one that I like for the following reasons: - She is polite, respectful, and reasonable - She is a 5th grade teacher with a steady income over 4x the rent - She has a clean criminal record - She has good credit history and has unintentionally signaled twice that her credit is important to her - Her car and dress seem clean and maintained enough - In some online research I found out she was on the dean's list in college - She is offering to pay another half-month's security deposit to give her an advantage over other applicants The biggest concern though is that she has a 75-pound dug that is a mix of Chow, American Terrier, Boxer, and Lab. Things to consider: - She says the dog is not aggressive - She says he does not destroy property - She says he's over the "puppy stage" - Her vet said the dog will likely not grow any more. - Apparently she brings him to day care regularly (maybe every day) where he usually expends his energy. She offered to provide the contact info of the daycare provider to hear her/his input on the dog's temperament. - Apparently she has an e-collar to help "manage" the dog if necessary. - She is offering to pay more pet fee (I am already charging $200 upfront and $25 additional every month) - The house is old (1952), has hardwood floors, a new deck, and a large backyard - The tenant is required to get renter's insurance - I have asked her to provide a record of the dog being spayed/neutered as well as vaccine records It may or may not be obvious that I would like to approve this tenant even with the dog. I would love to hear your thoughts?

that looks pretty much like our requirements as well. We have a 1-year minimum, everything else is the same. We are also in a C neighborhood and get over 100 emails requesting more information. When I respond with the pre-screen questions that number goes way down - to about 20. And then the number of people that reply back that they will actually come to the group showing is even less. We have great houses in not so great areas and offer rent just below or at market value. This makes it a competition for the people who want to live here. The best candidate will win and I've had them offer more deposit, longer lease as well. All you can do is screen really well. Our current tenants have 2 dogs! However she is a vet tech and they pay $25/month/pet and all has been well. They too had 750 credit rating and made 4 times the rent. It's hard for people to believe that hardworking people with good credit scores want to rent in these areas but for some they have grown up here and it's normal. They really do exist people! @Nick Brubaker, pull the trigger. Do the "pet interview", like @Susan Holmes said. that seems really wise.

First, I think your list of requirements, etc., is perfect. Second, even minimal renter's insurance policies do include liability. Mine is standard, and it's $100,000 liability, with medical expenses of $1,000/person (I just looked it up because I was curious). I don't carry any extra liability, so that's just a standard policy. Since your insurance company said there's no restriction on breeds, and if you've checked the dog out by talking to the doggie daycare and gotten vet records, etc., and confirmed it has no biting history (or at least really done your due diligence) I don't see your liability being really risky. If she's insured, even with just a standard policy, and you're insured, I don't see the need for additional insurance, myself. I think you're going to have a trade-off with this property, as far as tenants go. Personally, I'd rather take this tenant, with a good job and good credit and good attitude - and her big dog - than a less-appealing tenant without one. I'm kind of afraid you may price her out, if you demand too much more money. But, you can sure talk to her and see what she can handle. The more you can get, the better. I think you're doing an amazing job and are really smart for being so diligent in your screening. Better safe than sorry. I think in your shoes, though, with the info you've given, that I'd probably rent to her. And since I saw that your initial lease is only 8 months, I think that is a reasonable amount of time. That takes you through the winter. Another plus with her type of job, is that her job should be pretty secure, which means that if you ever have to collect from her, it's likely you will be able to collect. And if the neighborhood is that iffy, then you're probably always going to be dealing with some damage when there's tenant turnover. So, you would be best off renting to someone you're more likely to be able to collect from, if the deposit doesn't cover the damage. I know it's headache-inducing dealing with applicants and getting lots of conflicting advice. I think you're doing great and will make the right decision for you :-)

@Joe Splitrock You write: "...Liability is not covered with renters insurance. First of all, there is no way to ensure your tenant maintains insurance. They could send proof of insurance and drop it the next day." Re "does not have liability coverage": that's not true with the policies I've seen (and also what I've read on BP). Re "no way to ensure they maintain the insurance policy": yes there is - if you're the additional insured (which should always be the case/demand from landlord). You will then be informed about anything related to the policy, especially an upcoming lapse due to non-payment etc. Then again, it certainly depends on the individual renter's policy and the individual situation. As always...

If she qualifies otherwise then meet the dog. I would say the dog has probably made her search very difficult that is why she is so co-operative and offering extra for the pet. If the dog is in daycare, listens well when she brings him and she gives proof of insurance it sounds like a match.

Great sounding tenant with questionable dog

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

10y

She sounds like a responsible person and pet owner. I like them when the property is a fit.

The hardwoods give me a little pause. Provide or require area rugs. My 83-lb lab has accidentally put some scratches in mine.

The biggest problem I have with large dogs is yard damage. They can dig and rings of dead grass appear where they urinate. Otherwise my good pet owners are great and stay a long time!

4 Reply

Nancy Curran

Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 286 posts · 159 votes

10y

My first instinct is why does this good sounding tenant need/want a c class property? Obviously, there could be many good reasons, but I would wonder about that. But, I think a dog in a c class area is an asset. Keeps away robbers.

3 Reply

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

10y

My question is with her credentials, good credit score, good income, clean and tidy, intelligent. Why would she be renting/choose to live in a C class property. This makes no scenes along with her attempt to bribe you with additional payments she has put up a number of red flags I would be concerned about. If you accept her I would very strongly encourage you to only have her on a M2M lease. Tell her it is because of the dog. I would not offer her a term lease. If she says no to M2M you know she has issues you are not aware of.

As for the dog if you do not have a no pet policy what's the problem.

What did her landlord, the one before the one she has now, say about her. That is a mandatory reference to contact

2 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

Thank you @Steve Vaughan @Nancy Curran @Thomas S.

I will have to see if she has area rugs or look into what they cost. As to your point, Greg, I will definitely be asking previous landlords and the daycare supervisor about the dog.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that she is looking in the area she is. Maybe I'm getting my classes wrong and maybe it is more of a C+ I don't see why choosing to live in a C class area means you do not have good credit. I myself live in a dingy apartment to save money. It's not that she makes a lot of money, but she makes enough to be 4x the rent in that area. The profile I am getting of her is that she doesn't come from and affluent background, but she is trying to get ahead. I do like your suggestion about the M2M lease, Greg, and may try that out. I don't think I could do that and ask for more pet deposit and security deposit as well. What other red flags are you referring to, Greg?

Thanks again for the advice guys!

1 Reply

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

10y

Only her social status not being in line with a C class and the attempt to bribe you into allowing her dog. I am highly suspicious of an applicant offering more money than I am asking. It make me very nervous as money is usually a ploy to distract me from something they are hiding, like the dog may be a out of control monster that eats door frames. M2M is your safest bet if you take her but I would really be interested in hearing from her previous landlord. Depending on how long ago she rented from him she may not have had the dog.

I would also insist on seeing inside her present rental to inspect for dog damage. Seeing her present place would be mandatory for me. Make sure the address on her drivers licence is actually the place you see.

2 Reply

Penny ClarkPro Member

Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes

10y

@Nick Brubaker, Have you met the dog? Before I agree to rent to anyone with an animal(companion, assistive or pet, I meet it to make sure it is not overly aggressive. You're wise to require renter's insurance (make sure she carries $100k in liability that covers dog bites). Check your liability coverage as well and bump it to $500k if you can. Also check with your insurance carrier what breeds are not covered under your policy too. You should ask for a pet deposit, but I wouldn't take less than $500. You can only do this for pets, not assistive or companion animals, so state it as a pet in your lease. You can definitely require proof of current vaccinations, alteration and a behavioral report from the doggy daycare. I would also put in the lease the dog must be on a leash at all times when outside on the property.

I don't see it as a red flag necessarily if someone with good credit and in a stable career chooses to live below her means. Check that she has a positive rental history from both her current and previous landlords. She may not have been able to get into a B class rental because many landlords won't rent to people with large dogs in nicer area rentals. In my experience, C area landlords are often more lenient when it comes to allowing animals.

Usually I do see it as a red flag if an applicant offers more money up front than required. However, an extra half month toward security deposit is not excessive, like three to six months of rent in advance. Due to the tight rental market in my area, it is common for applicants to offer a higher deposit to get a leg up on the competition.

Just make sure you screen her thoroughly and meet the pet. @Greg S's suggestion of putting her or any of your approved applicants on a M to M or a shorter lease (6 month) is wise since this is your first rental. This way, if it doesn't work out, you can end the tenancy quickly.

Good luck and let us know how it worked out.

5 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

Thank you for all the great advice @Penny Clark. Since Chow, Terrier, and Boxer are all on the list I have compiled of dogs to avoid/prohibit, I'm guessing it is likely such types of dogs are uncovered under my insurance policy. Would the tenant's insurance and language in the lease be enough to protect myself from liability?

I have received interest from 430 people on this property and have held out for over a month to find a tenant that passes my screening process and is also please with the fairly strict terms and the C-class property I am offering (It's at and maybe a little below market rent). It's insane. If I applied every restriction and requirement that I have learned of through BP and other resources, I don't see myself renting the property any time soon. I went "undercover" myself to other houses for rent in the area and I think I'm definitely coming in on the cautious/restrictive side. I guess there has to be an equilibrium. In my market I would never get away with $500 pet deposit in addition to a $250 pet fee (unless you meant in lieu of the pet fee, in which case I still think it would be tough). I'm worried about having gone overboard making my lease too strict as it is. With the large, fenced-in back yard that the property has I think it would be unreasonable to have the dog on a leash when it's outside - I would probably prefer to have it spend more time outside than inside.

Sorry to vent a little frustration here. These are some good tips. I'll definitely be calling the past landlords and the dog daycare supervisor. I guess at the end of the day I have the best sense of what requirements I can get away with in my market and I'll have to decide the right balance between screening precautions and filling the unit.

Thanks again!

1 Reply

Jonathan G.

Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2015 · 382 posts · 258 votes

10y

You are aware that American terrier is just another word for pitbull correct?

3 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

I'm not. Thanks for clarifying that for me @Jonathan G.! I know pit bulls have a reputation. Does partial breed pitbull mean automatic rejection in your practice?

0 Reply

Jonathan G.

Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2015 · 382 posts · 258 votes

10y

I recently rejected someone for having a large Labrador ( with some other reasons too) I would not be interested in renting to someone with such a large dog irrespective of the type. In my own personal home, I do have a German Shepherd so I'm not a large dog hater. My dog has trashed my wood floors and I would not want that to happen in my rentals. She also makes the carpets smell a little bit too Three of my homes rent for 2200 to 2400 per month so I am a little bit more choosy.

1 Reply

Christos Philippou

Wilmington, DE · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 59 votes

10y

What @Penny Clark said was pretty spot on with what I would say too. Meeting the dog to me would be a big thing to keep in mind. If you are comfortable with meeting a new dog, I would just say go for it.

I would highly recommend when you meet the dog, to watch from a short distance with how the dog interacts with the owner. Does the dog pull, does the dog lunge, does the dog bark at strangers walking by? Does the dog listen, does the dog sit on command, etc. If the dog is well trained, I wouldn't see an issue with it.

I am currently renting an apt now while I wait for my primary residence to finish up minor repairs and I have a Great Dane. Massive dog, obviously, but more charming and friendly than any other breed. We got her when she was 2 months and had few accidents in the apt on carpets and the laminate floor. We always cleaned it up immediately. Since being potty trained, my pup hasn't had an accidents in the apt.

If the dog is 1 year + I wouldn't be so concerned with accidents. I don't know, maybe I am biased with my dog and how I rent. I'd say not to overthink it because the longer it's vacant the more money you miss out on. Trust your gut. Take a larger pet deposit. And do bi-weekly checks of the property or as see fit.

Enjoy!

2 Reply

Susan H.Pro Member

Investor/Landlord · NWA, AR · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 132 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

I'm not. Thanks for clarifying that for me @Jonathan G.! I know pit bulls have a reputation. Does partial breed pitbull mean automatic rejection in your practice?

My current neighbor has a pit bull and she is quite probably the most well trained dog I've ever met. The neighbor across the street has a teeny-tiny dog and it's totally untrained and obnoxious. Moral of the story: judge the dog, not the breed.

As a landlord, I ask about the dog's training (for example, obedience classes? What about the AKC's Canine Good Citizen certification?). Call the vet and the doggie daycare and see what they say. Go observe the dog interacting with others.

Just a thought: the prospective tenant may want the listing because it's close to her work, will help her save money, or any number of reasons. She might also be offering more money upfront in anticipation of rejection due to the dog's breeding.

I appreciate that many landlords are reluctant to rent to those who have dogs of certain breeds, and I know many communities have banned some specific breeds. I've researched this issue extensively for a book I'm writing and have learned that many of those same communities have rescinded their breed bans.

Here's a statement by the AKC that's worth your time to skim: http://images.akc.org/pdf/canine_legislation/why_b...

5 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

Looks like you're pretty local @Jonathan G. : ) This house is in south Decatur.

The problem is currently the best parts of this rental property are the large back yard and new large deck. So I am kind of accepting that it will likely be most desirable for pet (dog) owners. At the same time, it has hardwood floors in decent condition throughout. I don't have a very good sense of what damage these pets can do and if the pet fees will make up for it. Maybe I should require area rugs like Steve said above, but the prospective tenant may not go for it. She seems to really like the place and has already offered to pay more pet deposit. Maybe I'll try being more aggressive in what I ask there.

0 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

Thank you @Christos Philippou and @Susan H.. Very helpful. I'm pretty much decided now to go "interview" the dog.

0 Reply

Susan H.Pro Member

Investor/Landlord · NWA, AR · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 132 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

Looks like you're pretty local @Jonathan G. : ) This house is in south Decatur.

The problem is currently the best parts of this rental property are the large back yard and new large deck. So I am kind of accepting that it will likely be most desirable for pet (dog) owners. At the same time, it has hardwood floors in decent condition throughout. I don't have a very good sense of what damage these pets can do and if the pet fees will make up for it. Maybe I should require area rugs like Steve said above, but the prospective tenant may not go for it. She seems to really like the place and has already offered to pay more pet deposit. Maybe I'll try being more aggressive in what I ask there.

Should have added to my earlier post: I have a dog and hardwood floors through much of the first floor. I keep her nails well trimmed and the floor is fine--and I'm fussy about the condition of my property.

Ask your prospective tenant about the dog's nails. Does she trim them herself or have them trimmed by a groomer or other dog-knowledgeable friend? (I have a groomer who takes care of Sasha's nails plus my sister (dog trainer) for in-between grooming appointments.) Asking about grooming habits can tell you a lot about this owner's sense of responsibility.

Keep us posted!

1 Reply

Susan H.Pro Member

Investor/Landlord · NWA, AR · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 132 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

Thank you @Christos Philippou and @Susan H.. Very helpful. I'm pretty much decided now to go "interview" the dog.

Excellent! Keep us posted.

PM me if I can be of help. Between having a sister who's an expert dog trainer and five years' (and counting) research into the subject of dog behavior, I've developed an extensive network of dog-savvy folks and information. Happy to share whatever I can!

2 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

Thanks for adding that @Susan H.. If attentive grooming of the nails does make a big difference that does put more responsibility on the tenant to make sure the floors stay in decent condition. I'm hoping to visit the dog at her current residence and hoping she has hardwood floors there : )

0 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Susan H.:

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

Thank you @Christos Philippou and @Susan H.. Very helpful. I'm pretty much decided now to go "interview" the dog.

Excellent! Keep us posted.

PM me if I can be of help. Between having a sister who's an expert dog trainer and five years' (and counting) research into the subject of dog behavior, I've developed an extensive network of dog-savvy folks and information. Happy to share whatever I can!

Will do Susan!

0 Reply

Penny ClarkPro Member

Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes

10y

@Nick Brubaker, yes the $500 pet deposit was in place of charging pet rent, and keeping dog on a leash is just for front yard or unfenced area. You'd have to check with your insurer if proof of renter's insurance with liability coverage that included dog bites would suffice. I understand how time consuming it can be to find a quality tenant and it may seem like you are setting unreasonable standards, especially when your rental is in a C area. But 95 percent of your ability to receive rent is determined by the rental criteria you set up for the property and your screening process. If you're more restrictive than other landlords in your area, you will have higher quality tenants and they'll be stuck with late payers and the deadbeats.

2 Reply

Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

10y

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

... @Penny Clark. ...

I have received interest from 430 people on this property and have held out for over a month to find a tenant that passes my screening process and is also please with the fairly strict terms and the C-class property I am offering (It's at and maybe a little below market rent). It's insane. If I applied every restriction and requirement that I have learned of through BP and other resources, I don't see myself renting the property any time soon. ...

Wow 430 people inquired about your property? I never get anywhere near that many inquiries before finding an acceptable tenant. So I think something about your requirements seems much too strict. And it seems you now recognize that because you are now willing to loosen your requirements with respect to type of pets. Maybe you should evaluate all of your requirements to determine which ones are really essential and which ones are "nice to have (but not essential)".

1 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

Originally posted by @Nick Brubaker:

... @Penny Clark. ...

I have received interest from 430 people on this property and have held out for over a month to find a tenant that passes my screening process and is also please with the fairly strict terms and the C-class property I am offering (It's at and maybe a little below market rent). It's insane. If I applied every restriction and requirement that I have learned of through BP and other resources, I don't see myself renting the property any time soon. ...

Wow 430 people inquired about your property? I never get anywhere near that many inquiries before finding an acceptable tenant. So I think something about your requirements seems much too strict. And it seems you now recognize that because you are now willing to loosen your requirements with respect to type of pets. Maybe you should evaluate all of your requirements to determine which ones are really essential and which ones are "nice to have (but not essential)".

Thanks Steve. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. I put my requirements in the listings, but the vast majority of prospective tenants don't respond after I send them the first email reply (including this info again), likely because they didn't take a close look in the first place.

0 Reply

Nick Brubaker

OP

Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 419 posts · 52 votes

10y

I pasted the requirements/restrictions I have been including in all my marketing and emails below. I don't think they are particularly unreasonable for a careful landlord, but I think the quality of tenants in the area might not be so great to begin with and including these details upfront makes me come across as a tough landlord:

Application:

Background check ($25)
Past landlord, employer, and personal references

Lease Points:

Initial lease term is 8 months
Monthly rent of $865 due on the 1st of each month
Refundable Security Deposit of $865
Pet Fee (if applicable) of $200 upfront and additional $25 per month
Optional FrontPoint security system for $100 upfront and additional $50 per month
Tenant pays for water, gas, and electricity
Refrigerator and range oven included
Washer, dryer, dishwasher, and microwave not included
No smoking
Absolutely no illicit drugs or other illegal activity
Tenant responsible for damages beyond ordinary wear and tear
Tenant required to purchase renter’s insurance before move-in
No assigning or subletting without landlord’s permission

* The above list is intended only for purposes of convenience and is in no way incorporated into or comprehensive of the Lease Agreement, nor is it binding. The language of the Lease Agreement itself will be the sole, definitive contract between all parties.

Qualification Standards:

Your Application will be denied if you do not meet the below standards for qualification:

Applicant must have current photo identification and a valid social security number.

Applicant's monthly household income must be stable and exceed three times the rent. All income must be from a verifiable source. Unverifiable income will not be considered.

Applicants must receive positive references from all previous landlords for the past 5 years.

Applicant may not have any evictions or judgments from previous landlords.

Applicant must exhibit a responsible financial life. Credit score must be a minimum of 625.

A background check will be conducted on all applicants over 18. Applicant’s background must exhibit a pattern of responsibility and law-abidance.

Applicant must be a non-smoker.

Occupancy is limited to 2 people per bedroom.

Pets will be considered on a case-by-case basis ($200 up front and $25 a month).

0 Reply

Myrtle Mike ThompsonBusiness Member

Realtor · Myrtle Beach, SC · Member since 2016 · 350 posts · 204 votes

10y

I would be sure to get proof of Renters Insurance before she moves in. I sell insurance for a living and my company will not approve anyone who owns a Chow, American Staffordshire (pit bull), Rottweiler, or any mix including those breeds.

[email protected]843-999-2301

Myrtle Mike Real Estate580 Reviews

Website View Page

1 Reply

Albert Hasson

Investor · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2012 · 361 posts · 214 votes

10y

Nick, it's your first rental and you are obviously excited about REI, congratulations!!

However, I think you are totally over analyzing this and it sounds like you have just lost a months (or more) rent due to your overly strict criteria.

No amount of research can guarantee a good tenant. Even a "doggie interview" won't tell you if the dog will scratch your floors and piss inside the house. This teacher sounds like a god send to me given the C class location of your home. Sign her up and stop wasting your time. If you have that much time to kill start researching your next investment.

7 Reply

E J Howard

Contractor · Orland Park, IL · Member since 2014 · 33 posts · 18 votes

10y

Wow all the comments. This is good stuff. I hope this turns out well for you Nick Brubaker with the dog. Imagine the comments and issues if you lived within a Townhome community. We deal with many of the same things mentioned and more, like ruined grass and picking up pet poop. Find your tenant comfort level and go with that is my advice. Or you might interview a few neighbors too and get their input. Best wishes.

1 Reply

Great sounding tenant with questionable dog - should I rent??

Great sounding tenant with questionable dog - should I rent??

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