Do applicants/tenants know your home address/cell number?

Wendell De Guzman

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

10y

Originally posted by @Stephen E.:

@Kurt Gardner Your wife has a legitimate concern about giving away your home address. I used to do this and then an irate tenant (my worst ever) showed up at the front door causing a commotion. We went and got a mailbox at the UPS store, changed the address on all our business cards, email signatures and on all leases going forward. It is possible that inventive tenants might find your home address using other means although I doubt most have the ingenuity or focus to do this, but you are making it easy - you are giving your home address to them! Trust me, no good can come from this.

My cell phone number is on my business card along with a business line. The business line is presently forwarded to my cell phone but can be set to ring at home; it also goes to electronic voice mail which is emailed to me - very handy when I am out of the country. I have found that tenants do not abuse having access to your cell phone number. The fact is that most people now communicate by email and tenants seem to prefer this mode of communication most of the time. My phone number is out there and they can call me in case of emergencies but I have found that this is not abused. There are times I absolutely want them to contact me such as water emergency, fire or some other calamity. I want to know if something serious is taking place in regard to my property. But I suppose like much else this all comes down to screening. Screen well and screen for behavioral issues and abuse of phone numbers should be a relatively rare event. I would say the larger potential costs regarding phone numbers arise if the tenants cannot contact you in case of emergency.

I totally agree with you Stephen.

Landlords here who make it too easy are not being wise with their safety or their family's safety.

This is not about hiding. When you own hundreds of units, there will be a chance you will get a tenant with a mental problem. Do you want this tenant to go to your house and kidnap your kids or rape your wife?

Instead of giving your phone number and address, I give my Property Manager's contact info (phone) and have a professional mailing address they can send mail or I give them my attorney's office. I have a personal cellphone and my business cellphone is off during the weekends.

To each his own, I guess. But to me...my safety and my family's safety is more important than my tenants' convenience. My tenants do NOT own me and they can talk to my Property Managers if they have a problem.

2 Reply

Kurt Gardner

OP

Investor · Maryville, IL · Member since 2016 · 129 posts · 81 votes

10y

@Richard M., @Andy Webb, @Yvette M., @Percy N., @Nicole Clemens - great answers and some interesting findings about the state laws regarding requiring a specific type of payment. I'm curious if "payment system" means a METHOD OF PAYMENT or a system that is mechanical/electronic/automatic, etc... In other words, if a tenant pays with checks that consistently bounce, would requiring cash be considered a "system?" What about money orders or certified checks...those are "processed" and would require another type of system to produce. Just curious really...

I had no idea about a "deposit only" atm card. That is intriguing and something I will look into (now I wonder if THAT would be considered a "system." Semantics...haven't we all been killed by them at some point!?

Great answers and wonderful advice.

For those that are allowed to require electronic payments, is this something you would disclose to an applicant like the allowance of pets or smoking, or after they have been qualified?

Kurt Gardner

OP

Investor · Maryville, IL · Member since 2016 · 129 posts · 81 votes

10y

@Wendell De Guzman - safety is a primary concern, indeed. We are not quite at the property manager stage, and when we do get there, I have already resolved that our identity becomes as shielded as possible from that point forward. It isn't so much as it would become more important at that point (or based on a higher probability of a crazy one signing up), it would be more of a realistic possibility and benefit of that arrangement.

FYI, my wife is no snowflake, and she has the means to defend herself in the event of a meanacing trespasser at our home.

"...that door you kicked in was locked for YOUR protection."

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_disp....

Rick S.

Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2014 · 397 posts · 161 votes

10y

@Kurt Gardner the CA rule says you have to allow for a method of payment besides cash or an electronic transfer, however it does have a provision for bounced checks, here is the text:

A landlord or a landlord’s agent may demand or require cash as the exclusive form of payment of rent or deposit of security if the tenant has previously attempted to pay the landlord or landlord’s agent with a check drawn on insufficient funds or the tenant has instructed the drawee to stop payment on a check, draft, or order for the payment of money. The landlord may demand or require cash as the exclusive form of payment only for a period not exceeding three months following an attempt to pay with a check on insufficient funds or following a tenant’s instruction to stop payment...

The full law is here:

Bryan N.

Investor · Hampton Roads, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 418 votes

10y

PO Box. Tenants have my cell but we do all communications through email so their is a paper trail. Phone calls and texts are permitted only if there is WATER WATER EVERYWHERE!!!

Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 328 posts · 97 votes

10y

@Bryan N.

Po box is fine, but I believe you need a brick address when you can accept service of documents

Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 328 posts · 97 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Kurt Gardner:

@Richard M., @Andy Webb, @Yvette M., @Percy N., @Nicole Clemens - great answers and some interesting findings about the state laws regarding requiring a specific type of payment. I'm curious if "payment system" means a METHOD OF PAYMENT or a system that is mechanical/electronic/automatic, etc... In other words, if a tenant pays with checks that consistently bounce, would requiring cash be considered a "system?" What about money orders or certified checks...those are "processed" and would require another type of system to produce. Just curious really...

I had no idea about a "deposit only" atm card. That is intriguing and something I will look into (now I wonder if THAT would be considered a "system." Semantics...haven't we all been killed by them at some point!?

Great answers and wonderful advice.

For those that are allowed to require electronic payments, is this something you would disclose to an applicant like the allowance of pets or smoking, or after they have been qualified?

In my lease I offer four payment options: mail to Postal Annex box, ATM cards (no one has opted for that yet), online & hand delivery. For hand delivery tenants can go to the Postal Annex store and ask that the envelope be placed in my box.

Allen Hayes

Investor · La Grange, KY · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 19 votes

10y

@Yvette M., are they deposit only ATM cards? That's what I use, they work well for letting people make cash deposits on their own schedule but not learn the account information or have a card tied to an account that they could potentially use to buy things.

Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 328 posts · 97 votes

10y

@Allen Hayes

yes, deposit only ATM

Account Closed

San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes

10y

Originally posted by @Kurt Gardner:

My wife has expressed concern about allowing people who are applying for our properties to know our home address (to send applications when they need to be mailed). Even tenants who pay for rent know our address so they can mail the payment and she is a little uneasy with that.

My response is our business is registered to our home address and I've never really thought about having a P.O. Box or other because people could find our address with a basic search. Eliminating that option is possible to a degree, but would take effort I'm not sure is worth the hassle.

Her concern is what if a "nutter" gets mad at us and wants to take it out at our personal property? I'm not that concerned, but it is a reasonable question and I promised I'd ask the experts.

To make it a "two-fer," how about phone numbers? Do you provide your personal cell or a separate business number?

Thank you!

Well, Kurt, it's always best to keep Mama happy, or ain't nobody happy :-)

I think making it difficult for applicants/tenants to find you is a good idea. Sure, they may figure it out, but they won't be able to find you easily in the heat of the moment.

I was a resident manager for 8 years, and I had a few scary experiences. I was fortunate to live in a city where the police actually showed up and quickly. And they even called up applicants or previous tenants on the phone and explained to them that if they continue to stalk/harass me, that they will be arrested. I was lucky in that in every case, they backed off once the police contacted them.

But, for instance, there was an applicant freshly out of prison who was living on his sister's couch and she wanted him gone. Ironically, she was the problem LOL. But, I turned him down for lack of landlord references and credit (hello, prison isn't a great landlord reference and I didn't accept relatives - as in sleeping on his sister's couch - as a reference). She came around banging on my door and yelling that I was discriminating, blah blah. But she was being scary. I called the cops and gave them her number, they talked to her and she knocked it off.

I had a former tenant who wanted back in - who we were happy to see leave - and I told him I wouldn't rent to him again, and he started blowing up my phone. 30 calls in one day, and demanding to talk to the owner and saying he was going to hang around on the property until he could talk to the owner, blah blah. I called the cops and they called him and told him he would be arrested for harassment if he didn't leave me alone. He finally backed off, but sent friends and family trying to rent the unit for him under different names, etc.

There was another guy I turned down and he started basically stalking me. I'd come home from the grocery store and grab a bag of groceries and turn around and the guy would be standing right behind me. One day he did that for about the 3rd time, demanding I rent him a unit, and to talk to the owner, and I said, "You're in luck. Follow me." I had already told the owner about this guy.

I marched him upstairs to a unit the owner was working in, and told the owner this is the guy who has been stalking me and scaring me. The owner actually yelled at him and chased him down the stairs LOL. I'd never seen him lose his temper before.

These aren't even all of my stories, and I lived in a very safe city with very minimal crime and with a very responsive police department - and I still had to deal with these crazies.

So, your wife is right to be cautious. My experience was that most of the crazy situations involve rash, spontaneous actions. So, if you were at least difficult to find, their tempers should have calmed down by then. There would be exceptions, of course, but I don't think she's crazy to be worried at all.

Kelly N.

Investor · SE, MI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 461 votes

10y

I use my cell phone for everything, I don't think it is a big deal if people have the number and it's never been a problem. I don't give out my home address though it is easy enough to find, also never been an issue.

For any mail related to our rentals, I have a PO box, but most things are handled online or in person.

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

10y

I have had tenants in the past that I have issued "no trespass" warrants against regarding my personal property. If you are evicting someone from their home it is impossible to predict how they will react so don't be surprised when the odd one arrives on the crazy train at your front door. They could in theory follow you to your home without you knowing. It is simply part of the risk any business person takes with customers. Landlords should stop thinking our business is some how unique. It isn't, every business has disgruntled, unstable customers, accept the fact that there is very little you can do about it and move forward.

Bottom line is if you fear crazy customers showing up at your door unannounced maybe you would be better suited doing something else.

Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 328 posts · 97 votes

10y

@Account Closed

Wow, you have some colorful stories!

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

10y

@Account Closed There may be a small chance that a tenant will take you to court, a smaller chance they will win but that is no reason to change your policy. If fear of being forced to do something by a judge is driving your personal business plan you may as well not have any rules.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

10y

@Account Closed Every apartment complex that is professionally managed in the US will NOT take cash... too much chance that managers steal it.. and debates about who paid eetc etc.. Your correct in your assumption... if your lease says no cash then its NO CASH and your tenant needs to be money order or cashiers check if they don't have a checking account

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

10y

@Account Closed you certainly can.. I was just pointing out that most companies do not accept cash. and its legal and not something a judge in judge judy's court is going to ding you about if its clearly in your lease.

One of my vendors who has a few hundred D,C,B class they take cash gladly.

but on the flip side one of the PM's that worked for one of the early day TK operators ( circa 2002) would not way take cash it would get out on the street and the next thing you know they are being robbed at gun point.. so it depends on the setting.. even at that taking no cash the front of their office was like a bank teller with bullit proof glass and a sliding slot door.. kind of like a low end convience market in the HOOD

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Cindy Marlin

Investor · South Bay, CA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 1 vote

10y

It is also illegal in California, you cannot force them to pay online.

I also never gave my address to tenants. I used a mailbox. I had one problem one who thought he found out where I lived, his many voicemail's kept telling me I lived on a street I never owned property on, but I was able to complete his eviction before he found me. He was my only problem tenant. Because I owned multiple properties he couldn't tell where I lived. I know people can be found on the Internet but it is always good to be as distant as possible.

JR T.

Financial services executive · Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 609 posts · 341 votes

10y

Cell phone yes. I use one cell phone for everything. Calling me on it

for a non emergency is guaranteed to be unpleasant.

Home address no way. In fact a tenant caused a police incident in my office just last week. I'd encourage you to purchase a Ring video doorbell intercom and always screen who is out there.

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

10y

@Joe Splitrock

The reason I did not complete my profile is because everything I did show is fictitious, to lazy to make up any thing else. The reason has nothing to do with my business it goes to my opinion of the interweb in general .

The problem with the theory that hiding prevents lazy people from finding landlords really does not have mush credibility. The only tenants you have to fear are not the ones that are lazy or easily deterred from finding their landlord. You are only hiding from the normal people in the world that don't care where you live.

David Dachtera

Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

10y

@Kurt Gardner,

There are methods you can use to shield yourselves as much as the law provides. Nothing is ever 100%, but you can raise enough barriers that only the most persistent will get through all of them and by then you should have been able to protect yourself against them, again in so far as the law allows.

That's probably not the answer you were looking for, yet so many people make the mistake of holding property in their own name, not using property managers, etc. that it is, indeed, worthy of concern.

It's the price to be paid for "saving" (read: not spending) money: own it without a business entity structure and manage it yourself in return for the dangers of nut-case tenants and more.

No one ever built wealth by not spending.

The only way to build wealth is by investing for income.