Tenant Refuses Stove - threatens to withold rent

Tenant Refuses Stove - threatens to withold rent

Investor · Emeryville, CA · Member since 2016 · 14 posts · 14 votes

[punchline at the end] I have a legacy tenant that has been living in the building since purchase (7 years ago) and they recently killed their gas range with only one of 4 burners working.  When they notified me it was not working, I did an inspection and it appeared that the burners were shot and clogged with burned grease.  The stove was fairly dirty and I took some pictures.  I had another used stove available, did a quick clean, tested that it worked, and swapped it out.  When tenant saw new (used) stove they freaked-out since #1 it was used and they wanted a new stove, #2 I did a decent job cleaning the stove and burners but the oven had some stains and was less than pristine.  They demanded I come a remove the new (used) stove -- I think not.

I notified them in writing that purchase of a new stove via withholding rent is not authorized.  They are pissed and sending me pictures of the inside of the oven on a daily basis.  Now to the punchline... unit is rent-controlled and tenant is paying less than 1/2 market rent, so I am in no mood to buy nice new appliances for them.  If they do withhold rent then they could be served a 3-day notice and be evicted if not paid.  

My question, dear forum members is, should I go and clean stove, take pictures, etc.. or let them follow-through on threat to withhold rent?  I would not want to get into an eviction and then lose based on a habitability claim of an unclean stove.

"A watched pot never boils"

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Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 80 posts · 64 votes
10y

Technically all you need to provide is a safe, working stove which it sounds like you've done. The rub that has been created:

Stove you provided admittedly wasn't that clean. (Have to be careful with used appliances re: insect infestation etc)

Tenant "demands" you clean or replace. Tenant is now challenging for power. You acquiesce, it may never stop. You refuse, tenant makes life hell until their exit. 

By threatening to withold rent the tenant now knows the dynamic of the relationship has forever  changed and is probably ready to move on anyway. After all would they deal with that if roles were reversed?

 Clean the stove as best you can for your own good karma and get rid of the tenant. Update with new stove, new tenat and more rent.  


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  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    9y

    with the rent control sounds like tenants doing you a favor by withholding rent. Although your out in C.A. would you win the eviction? I hear it's like another world out there.

  • Realtor · Farmington, MI · Member since 2016 · 129 posts · 69 votes
    9y

    Hello Josh:

    Find out if you are able to rent a temporary Gas Range for a week o" two from your local "Rent a Center". You may want to document that the replacement is temporary and that any damage to the rental Gas Range will be shouldered by the current renters. 

    If they do indeed damage the rental Gas Range you have documented evidence supporting your case for the courts.
    In the meantime, do a professional thorough job of cleaning the original stove and replace the rental with the original one.

    By doing that you are complying with the tenant's complaint that you made an earnest effort to resolve the complaint (frivilous as it may seem)

    If they hold rent you because you returned with the original gas range (that is what? you want them to do). You can start the eviction process by first offering them a cash incentive and diplomatically asking them to leave and if that doesn't work out, then courts is the last option.

    The "burden of proof" is on the Landlord to demonstrate that you were able and willing to resolve the renter complaint.

    Good Luck ! We are eager to find out how? it all worked out for you.

  • Real Estate Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    I would recommend buying the stove if they have been paying rent for 7 years. If they were tenants on their first year a used stove would be good enough for all. But after 7 years...a new stove will solve the problem and mend your landlord-tenant relationship. 

  • Investor · Henderson, NC · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 208 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Oscar Manzz:

    I would recommend buying the stove if they have been paying rent for 7 years. If they were tenants on their first year a used stove would be good enough for all. But after 7 years...a new stove will solve the problem and mend your landlord-tenant relationship. 

     That sounds like a great idea! Spend extra money on an ungrateful tenant that you don't want, just so that they can continue to stay in your building and lose money every month. Brilliant!

    I suspect you are a new landlord?

  • Real Estate Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    Keep in mind it's in a rent control area. It will not be easy and most likely costly kicking them out. In landlord friendly states and cities I would agree with you @Ryan R. But when tenants have added rights supported by the government rent control legislation and if the tenants KNOW their rights you might lose way more money than $400 for a stove on eviction proceedings, then you add the make ready and time of vacancy...soon that stove issue will cost you thousands. 

    Another person on this thread spent close to $8000 on eviction in a rent controlled area. The most cost effective ways of solving the problem is in this order:

    1) buy the stove and mend the relationship

    2) Do not buy the stove and give cash for keys

    3) Eviction 

    I sympathize with anybody who has been in a similar situation. 

  • New Haven, CT · Member since 2016 · 90 posts · 99 votes
    9y

    The people saying buy a brand new stove, sound like they want to run a charity vs. a business. The amount of money that tenant is saving in rent should warrant them to buy their own (at the owners discretion). I absolutely can't stand people who get handouts, then still find a way to complain. 

    $1,300 a month will allow you to finance a brand new Porsche Cayman GTS, Corvette Z06, Tesla, any BMW, Mercedes, Audi you want every 6 years for the rest of your life..You can take a one week all inclusive trip to Mexico, the Bahamas etc., every single month for the rest of your life.. You could take $1,300 put it into the stock market and with an 8% annual increase and make 1.8 MILLION DOLLARS in 30 years.  over 4 MILLION DOLLARS in 40 years and over 9 MILLION DOLLARS in 50 years, which would insure no one in your family would have to work again for the rest of your family tree's history (granted they are somewhat smart with the money and keep it flowing) 

    Just putting the amount of money you are losing into perspective. 

    I would do everything in my power to get that person out of the house.

    Good luck. 

    Matt

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @DL Martin:

    Josh, immediately send a cleaning service to clean that stove and have the service take several photos of the stove, prior to cleaning and after cleaning. Have a conversation with the owner of the service and let them know that the employee who cleaned the stove and took the photo may be called to eviction court at a later time but that you will be more than happy to pay them their hourly cleaning rate for the time that they spend at court. Tuck the cleaning invoice away and pray that the tenant withholds the rent. 

    Give notice in accordance with CA state law and then start the eviction process with a smile on your face. 

    When you get to court, present the invoice for the stove cleaning, the before and after photos, and have that cleaning employee on hand to testify. 

    You will win. Even in California. 

    I've done evictions in SoCal and while pricey (compared to the Midwest), they are not impossible. 

    The only real bummer would be if after finding for you, the Socialist Judge told the tenant that if they pay the rent "right now" (in court) then the Judge will dismiss the eviction. 

    It's a crap shoot, but I would seize upon this as a golden opportunity to terminate that lease. 

    DL 

     This is exactly what I did when a recent tenant/scammer complained of bed bugs. Inspection while they were living there and after I kicked them out, showed no signs of bed bugs at all. I even had two different inspectors do the inspections and got the written receipts and all of it on video with their permission.

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