Property Manager · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 117 posts · 50 votes
First off, thank you to this forum. Through advice given to others and lessons learned, y'all have helped me build a fairly solid list of rules/regulations for my future 4-plex. The issue today is I'm worried about scaring off tenants with the shear length of my compiled rules for tenants. At the moment I'm at 5 pages and it hasn't even been through a lawyer yet to translate it all correctly.
The question is, how many rules is too much? If you're willing to share, how many rules are on your lease?
Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
I have the application, lease, the crime free / drug free addendum, the security deposit agreement, the lead free addendum, electric service power start form for service, pet deposit agreement, move in check in sheet. and a policy packet of several pages. They sign a form that they have received the policy packet with rules and regulations for the property.
The policy packet is pages of general rules for the property and also information for local contacts for services. It has the charges we charge for cleaning at end of tenancy. Once listed
Yup all neat in a folder so all prepared when they come to rent and I get everything signed and sealed when the lease is signed.
Irvington, NJ · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 19 votes
9y
I use a standard lease about 3 or four pages just standard things . What kind of additional rules are u speaking about . Remember they only read it and sign it once . I wouldn't want a tenant that is not concerned with what the rules are anyway . I think it's great that u are being detailed and letting the tenant know everything u expect up front . It should prevent future issues if they know what kind of property they will be living in . Don't worry about scaring tenants u will only scare the ones u don't want anyway.
Plano, TX · Member since 2016 · 14 posts · 6 votes
9y
I agree with edgar sulca, be upfront with your lease and rules up front. If you use a standard lease and add in stuff about pets and tenant liabilities for damages and the tenants do not like it they can go somewhere else. better to be more detailed then not, cover your own butt man.
Property Manager · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 117 posts · 50 votes
9y
The short answer to your question is that our additions to a standard lease are more specific than what you tend to find in a standard lease. Many of them have come straight from here after seeing someone else with an issue that could be relevant to our area. Keep in mind, these are not rules for a SFR but for MFR, so some things are just rules of courtesy. Our current rules detail things such as inoperable vehicles, trailers, quiet hours, smoking policy to cover vaping and marijuana usage, exception to subletting in extreme circumstance, waterbeds. I've had one that i've been iffy on adding but it seems a fairly good catch-all: No swearing. No I don't intend to enforce no swearing if it's just in casual conversations. It's more to keep folks from just yelling at each other across the property. I have to assume there may be children in at least one of the units. Thoughts?
Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
I have the application, lease, the crime free / drug free addendum, the security deposit agreement, the lead free addendum, electric service power start form for service, pet deposit agreement, move in check in sheet. and a policy packet of several pages. They sign a form that they have received the policy packet with rules and regulations for the property.
The policy packet is pages of general rules for the property and also information for local contacts for services. It has the charges we charge for cleaning at end of tenancy. Once listed
Yup all neat in a folder so all prepared when they come to rent and I get everything signed and sealed when the lease is signed.
Architect · Papillion, NE · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 840 votes
9y
Be clear and concise. Its all about content and not page numbers. Remember you are creating the rules of the game per say. When there is a problem, the first thing you are asking: "What does the lease say?". If it says nothing then the tenant isn't in the wrong, per say and becomes a pissing match. Don't get hung up on page numbers. I've seen a 3 page lease that was font size of 6 or 8 and when you change it a readable 12pt font and then it becomes 15 or so.
I think by the time you vet that with your attorney, you'll have it in a good form and yes, it probably should be part of the lease, however that might need to happen.
Your attorney - if you find one who is good with rental properties - may even already have a form which encompasses your needs and wants and has been tested in court.
Property Manager · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 117 posts · 50 votes
9y
Thank you all for the responses. I will, of course, find a lawyer with rental experience to go through everything (still building the team) but I do really like the idea of having a new tenant packet. The only issue I'd like clarification on there @Deanna McCormick is revision of any addendum. Since you are referencing addendums in the lease you make it easier to change just the addendum without making a new lease. I'm just imagining that when you need to add a new rule/policy after the tenant has signed, you can modify just the addendum and give notice of the change to tenants. In Arizona, tenants must be given 30 days to comply with any changes to policies and/or rules. So how do you show, legally speaking, the date of notification to the tenant and date of implementation? A separate signed letter of notification from the tenant?
Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
9y
Just going off of what my dad has created from his 30 years of managing C and B rentals, he now has a long list of rules as a part of the rental agreement. I think it is fine having everything written down, he adds more every time he has some bizarre experience or needs to note something new. But he has a simple first page that spells out the simple, basic, most important rules:
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y
Sounds like you're trying to state policy as rules in a lease, don't need to do that, the lease simply states the tenant(s) agree to abide by owner's policies, which may be subject to change from time to time and which are made a part of this Agreement by reference. Tenant(s) acknowledge receipt of the Owner's Policy book at application.
Done! Now, go write your policy book, just give them a copy with the application.
If you change policies you need to give them notice of changes adopted. See your attorney :)
Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 92 posts · 103 votes
9y
My lease is seven pages long, 12pt font. Attached to the lease is an eight page list of clauses in 10pt font. I've never had a tenant question the restrictiveness of my lease, not surprisingly they just speed through the pages, initial, and sign. These clauses include everything from a confession of judgment to hazardous material storage on the property.
If we found it necessary to change a major policy that was part of the policy packet, we had to give 60 days notice.. This was noted as a "clause in the policy packet" which permitted us to adjust things if they changed. most were on year leases with 60 day notice period. The only policy change I can remember making a change on was parking rules for the parking areas, and pool rules for the pool area.
Thank you all for the responses. I will, of course, find a lawyer with rental experience to go through everything (still building the team) but I do really like the idea of having a new tenant packet. The only issue I'd like clarification on there @Deanna McCormick is revision of any addendum. Since you are referencing addendums in the lease you make it easier to change just the addendum without making a new lease. I'm just imagining that when you need to add a new rule/policy after the tenant has signed, you can modify just the addendum and give notice of the change to tenants. In Arizona, tenants must be given 30 days to comply with any changes to policies and/or rules. So how do you show, legally speaking, the date of notification to the tenant and date of implementation? A separate signed letter of notification from the tenant?
Lotta folks use certified mail, return receipt requested so someone has to sign for it.
Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes
9y
Brian Volland
Check out www.doctorevictor.com. It is a page for law office of hull holiday holiday. They do a lot of evictions in maricopa. They also have sample documents there such as a lease. My lease is an adaptation of theirs plus some addendum items.
Every point of possible concern that you leave out of a lease will be a potential problem with tenants at some point in time. If you can think of something that you feel is important at some point in time a tenant will also think to want to do it.
Put it in writing and don't worry about the perception as the vast majority of tenants will ignore their lease anyway. The lease is for your protection not theirs. Anything in writing is enforceable any thing that is not in writing is not enforceable.
Investor · Santa Rosa Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 232 posts · 153 votes
9y
@Brian Volland Since you are in Peoria, I am going to make this SUPER simple for you. Just call Dr. Evictor Hull, Holiday and Holiday. They are the best landlord/tenant firm, I've worked with them for almost 10 years. They can help you with your lease and have all of the addendums they recommend right on their site. Good luck!