Real Estate Investor · Hastings On Hudson, NY · Member since 2016 · 43 posts · 7 votes
I'm always getting the sneaky leaky sink charge for under $200 on my properties. It seems like it is one of the most popular things that show up on under the radar every month.
My question, it seems like it is always $100 to $120 for the repair. Would it just make sense to replace the entire faucet with a new one? Would the cost be much more?
Real Estate Professional · Memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
As @Daryl Askew mentioned your PM should show you before and after pictures. Unfortunately there are a lot of crooks in this business. Not only do we do the before and after pictures, but we also provide a break out of material and labor too so that the investor knows exactly what the cost break out is. Transparency is a must to gain trust of your investors. Lastly, if the same thing is breaking, the individual who did the repair should be going back out to make the repair at no charge. Plumbing is the # 1 re-occurring maintenance issue and can get out of control if the repairs are not done correctly are quality materials are not used.
IMO, once you say "keep my property manager honest", then it is time to consider a change. Also, I have always found that home warranties are a waste of money as they do not fix all the things they claim to fix. Read the fine print closely.
Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2013 · 844 posts · 350 votes
9y
Teddy Johnson most investors who have property management in place have a set dollar amount on where the managers must call for an approval before spending the money. So that you as the owner can make the decision on whether to fix or replace.
Most of us have this dollar amount at $100 so you not have this in your contract?
Your monthly sneaky leak is most likely a sneaky PM.
It costs nothing to repair a leak and it can not be proven that it did or did not exist. If a faucet was replaced that would cost for parts and would leave evidence that work was actually completed.
You should be informed each time what property the work was done in and call the tenant to confirm. My guess is that your sneaky leak costs will diminish considerably.
Teddy Johnson most investors who have property management in place have a set dollar amount on where the managers must call for an approval before spending the money. So that you as the owner can make the decision on whether to fix or replace.
Most of us have this dollar amount at $100 so you not have this in your contract?
Thanks for the tip, it is currently at $400, I'll be sure to lower it.
Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 104 posts · 22 votes
9y
As a vendor for property management companies we take before during and after photos. If the same sink leaks after we do it we will get a go back order for warranty work. If it's something different we will call office and let them know and ask how they want to handle it. If I change one fitting out under sink we will usually change all. It only takes a few more mins a few more $ in material and all is completed .
Investor · Rigby, ID · Member since 2016 · 52 posts · 45 votes
9y
I would be asking for copies receipts from the plumber who did the work. 200$ to fix a leak, 230 for a toilet repair...... you are being taken. Start looking for a new PM if you don't want to pay out the nose.
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 205 posts · 74 votes
9y
I just had both of these issues myself, a leaky kitchen sink and a non-flushing toilet.
I had the toilet replaced for the reason you suggest, it's the same cost if not cheaper to get a whole new one than to replace parts and risk it happening again.
I've seen $300 as a common amount held with property managers here in Indianapolis for maintenance and repairs. $100 seems very low.
I think calling your tenants to see that the work is done may give your tenants the impression that you don't trust your own property management company. The photos before and after as suggested by Daryl makes sense.
"Hi, I am doing a quality control check on your recent repair. I want to make sure everything was handled properly and to your satisfaction"?. "I would like to ask you a couple questions if you don't mind?".
1) "How long after the call were you first contacted?"
2) "Were they able to schedule the repair around you or was it performed while the unit was vacant?"
3) "How long was the repair person at your residence?"
4) "Was the issue resolved to your satisfaction?"
5) "Any other notes you would like me to make?"
"Thank you very much, we appreciate your time and thank you for your tenancy"
Real Estate Consultant · Whitestown, IN · Member since 2014 · 547 posts · 933 votes
9y
@Michelle T. We just raised our maintenance cutoff from $250 to $300 last year. I have had several clients come from other PM's in town who are now charging $400 and $500. That is a lot of freedom to give to a PM. I want to know if something over $300 is going on in my property and have the service coordinated with me. @Eddie T. I think $100 would be a little low and it would be a lot of phone calling with the owners since our most common repairs are $80-120 and we have about 8-10 service requests called in daily. That would be a huge load on the property managers to get authorization for half of the service requests before the work can even be scheduled.
Here's my take. I work for a PM company. I know for a fact that plumbing issues of some sort are the most common service requests. This can be water heaters, main drain issues, leaky faucets, leaky toilets, leaky drains, dripping bath tubs, etc. Our hourly service tech's handle all of these issues but main drain problems... we do have a great drain vendor who works for negotiated rates though (no emergency or after hour charges, and good hourly rates.)
Our technicians always take before and after pictures and they are available to the owner upon request. Now, not every repair is something that is easy to take a picture of (like tightening a P-trap) but many things are. You should ask your property manager if they have photos available.
We had a discussion in our office earlier this year regarding replacing valve stems, washers, cartridges, etc vs installing new hardware. We used to always attempt to repair vs replace but we found ourselves addressing problems again in about 50% of our service repairs and ended up having to replace the entire fixture in the future. We have began replacing more often now as the cost is cheaper than having to make 2 trips.
Our charges for service work that is done by us is $70 for the first hour (trip charge) and $50/hr for any time after that. We can get mid-grade faucets for $45-65 and wouldn't purchase anything nicer than that unless the home already had nicer fixtures installed. In my opinion, the issues that you are mentioning should be done for $135 or less and should not have to be touched again after that.
A good PM should have good negotiated rates with any vendors that they use. They should also have handymen available who can handle these issues. Rarely do these types of issues require a plumber. If they are sizable enough, they should have in-house service technicians who can handle those kinds of things too. They should also have special programs/partnerships for materials. Our franchise is a national partner with Home Depot so we try to get our materials there when possible. This helps to keep our pricing fair and consistent.
I have clients come over all of the time who chose a PM because they were given a break on monthly management fees but they end up getting killed on maintenance. A business is in business to be profitable. If they're rates are unusually low, they are probably going to get you in some form of ancillary fees and maintenance is probably the most common.
I had a client come over last year who was on her third PM. She chose them because they had an 8% PM fee whereas 10% is most common in our market. She left because she was paying more for property management than ever before (because of various fees and maintenance.)
Property Manager · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 261 posts · 199 votes
9y
Reacting to these one off expensive minor repairs can be avoided. Every 8 years, replace all faucets, under cabinet water lines, toilet mechanicals, washer and dryer lines and vent hose just to name a few. A handy man can knock out everything in 2 hours. You can buy all the material at huge discounts because you aren't reacting or relying on others. You can also get the handyman to warranty his work so that if something fails, he will fix for the price of the part only.
If any of us have to pay someone to react, it costs more than it needs to be.
Real Estate Consultant · Whitestown, IN · Member since 2014 · 547 posts · 933 votes
9y
@Phil Earley I agree entirely, but from a PM's perspective, many of our clients do not care to change or upgrade anything until it fails. IMHO, it is typically cheaper to address things during the vacancy period than it is to fix it when it is occupied, but it can add several hundred dollars to an already expensive reconditioning.
Usually, the labor costs is going to be less during a reconditioning though because there are less trips and multiple items being addressed. Being proactive is definitely a good way to invest, but many don't have or don't want to spend the money. That's why experience and education is worth its ROI in gold.
Real Estate Investor · Hastings On Hudson, NY · Member since 2016 · 43 posts · 7 votes
9y
Thank you for all chiming in. I just pulled up the history on this property and I've been getting taken advantage of. I saw that last year I paid to replace a stem in a faucet for $155. They should have just replaced the entire thing for less. Thanks again for your help.
I've asked them to have the handymen from now on to call me when they get to the house for repairs so I can guide them on leak issues.
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9y
Glad you recognise you are being taken advantage of, Teddy.
Is this property in your area?
People ask me why I would ever self-manage. Work on your business, not in it, and all that. This is why.
It takes me $.90 worth of springs and washers to fix a leaky sink, whatever that is. Is it dripping, or leaking underneath? Hand-tighten the trap nuts. $155. Lol
Toilets, same thing. Tighten tank to bowl wing nuts and replace fill valve. $14 for the fancy no-run, tank cleaning kind. I have never replaced a flush valve. Ever. Lots of flappers, though.
If your property is in your backyard, just hire a handyman or a bored old landlord like me. This stuff is simple and the PMs involved should be ashamed of themselves.
Real Estate Investor · Hastings On Hudson, NY · Member since 2016 · 43 posts · 7 votes
9y
The property is in Memphis and the tenant is a bit needy. So this is one that needs a manager, however I do self manage my Colorado property and I use thumbtack for everything.
I'm considering getting a warranty as the AC is 18 years old and keeps needing repairs. I think it'll help keep the manager honest.
Property Manager · Castro Valley, CA · Member since 2016 · 212 posts · 110 votes
9y
Hi Teddy,
I strongly agree with @Ross Denman and @Phil Earley.
There is quite a bit of advice that has already come your way. I will chime in on the side of being experienced on the property management side.
I would recommend just asking your management company about the charges and what can be done to reduce them. Your management team may need some idea of your expectations and goals for your property.
All of this "relationship business" information that goes into finding and purchasing a property continues into ownership.
Do you have an old faucet that comes out of the wall and is directly connected to galvanized pipe? Is this the same faucet leaking or do you have 10 different units that are all experiencing the same thing since the faucets are probably the same age?
Is this an old tub faucet that would require tearing out old tile and replacing the tub surround?
I have one property owner I work with that would be upset if anything beyond absolute bare minimum is done on the property at a turnover or maintenance request. The next building owner wants details like wires in wire chase being moved behind sheet-rock during a unit turnover. Both of these things the owners don't really want to have to go to the vacant unit and pick out each detail. I know these from talking to them and getting a feel for their expectations for their property.
The vendors I work with know the owners as well and have an idea of what their expectations are.
It is a team effort to take care of property in the way you prefer. You could be seeing the result of another client chewing someone out for replacing a faucet instead of a washer or they could be interpreting your previous requests the wrong way.
How big of a portfolio does your management company take care of? There likely isn't enough to support a full time maintenance person that goes around to each property, so they rely on either a handyman service or a plumber.
Here is my advice:
1. Talk to the management company about your concerns.
2. Find out if your management company has a policy about only using licensed professionals. The company I work with will use handyman services that have basic insurance and worker's comp. The bigger management company in town only uses contractors. You don't need the plumber for the leaky faucet, but you may need them to replace the galvanized pipe in your building if you still have.
3. Talk to the vendor that is used for the leaks. Maybe you want someone else to do work on your property. I work with people that have preferred vendors for their property that are only used on that single property. 4. Find a vendor or handyman you prefer to use for the repairs
Establish the relationship with that vendor and have the management company direct repair requests that person's way. Now you have someone you trust doing the work. 5. Go do a walk through of your units at your building with someone from the management company.
This is helpful for them to see what the current level of maintenance is in the building and what areas you may want to see handled differently. 6. Put money towards regular replacements and preventative costs as @Phil Earley stated.
Real Estate Professional · Memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
As @Daryl Askew mentioned your PM should show you before and after pictures. Unfortunately there are a lot of crooks in this business. Not only do we do the before and after pictures, but we also provide a break out of material and labor too so that the investor knows exactly what the cost break out is. Transparency is a must to gain trust of your investors. Lastly, if the same thing is breaking, the individual who did the repair should be going back out to make the repair at no charge. Plumbing is the # 1 re-occurring maintenance issue and can get out of control if the repairs are not done correctly are quality materials are not used.
IMO, once you say "keep my property manager honest", then it is time to consider a change. Also, I have always found that home warranties are a waste of money as they do not fix all the things they claim to fix. Read the fine print closely.
Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 57 posts · 16 votes
9y
"The property is in Memphis and the tenant is a bit needy. So this is one that needs a manager, however I do self manage my Colorado property and I use thumbtack for everything."
@Teddy Johnson Maybe you should think about an extra increase in this needy tenant's rent if they plan to renew in order to cover the cost of their "concerns".
Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2016 · 549 posts · 286 votes
9y
A good PM will send you before and after photos of the repairs. In addition to that when you receive your monthly statement they will provide you copies of the vendors receipts so that you can see the actually break down of cost.
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
9y
Think of it this way , the PM company has 100 houses they manage , Hit 50 houses a month for a $ 200 repair , thats 10 grand a month or $ 120K a year .