Tenant wants extension - you will not believe the reason

Tenant wants extension - you will not believe the reason

Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes

Long post -  HELP.

I got an email this morning from my tenant that I sent a non-renewal letter to last month. I gave this tenant an extra month to find new housing as it is very difficult to find housing here. She has 3 young children and I feel bad for their family, This tenant is manic. Off her meds. They have triggered 6 eviction notices in their year lease. Started with a lease violation of pets. Their dogs on the lease had a litter of 14 puppies that they didn't tell me about. They when I approached them about getting the puppies adopted she told me to get the "f off the property". This was while I was taking my kids down the street to a birthday party and they hear this lady screaming at me about "What should I have done?, Drown the puppies? Did you want me to take a coat hanger to the mother? These things happen!" 

While I agree that these things happen this was not the reaction I was expecting. Then I get a call from her employer asking for the deposit back that she paid. I ask why, and they tell me that she quit her job.   The tenant tells me she was fired. Then the rent starts not coming in, I can't get a hold of them and they won't answer the door/phone/emails or texts. I understand that can be very stressful. This goes on for 6 months. Then she gets another job and all seems to level out. Then she quits a month later. Rent goes late again. So with 8 late rents, multiple lease violations and hostile interactions with them I decided to not renew the lease. I send the letter a month early and then get an email this morning. This is the first email/communication I have ever gotten from her since she rented a year ago. See the email:

-- We received your notices to vacate the premises as of May 14th. We have been actively searching and filled out multiple applications for multiple properties. However, our older daughters (XXXXXX-5 and XXXXXXX-4) were in XX visiting our parents for the last month. They returned April 6th, but that night something was wrong with XXXXXX. She has shown signs of some physical, sexual or emotional abuse (we are not sure what yet) and I plan to enroll her in play therapy (per recommendations from our friend who is a preschool owner and teacher.) After she had an episode-that now occur daily, multiple times (which consist of me trying to help her brush her teeth, or another activity, with her panicking and screaming "I just want to go to bed") I overheard XXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX having a conversation that "The lady....touched....where the babies come out." It was difficult to hear the entire conversation because I was in the kitchen, but that was enough along with the behavior to be concerned and seek further assistance.

At this time, I am very concerned about uprooting her life and finding a new home. She needs stability, she needs familiarity, and what she has here are family and friends that she is comfortable to be around, which we will not have if we move. This whole situation has completely broken my heart, and I do not know what to do. If we could get an extension, or something.....anything....I would forever be in your debt. From one mother to another, please help me. I don't know what to do.

Thank you for your consideration. --

I am lost as how to proceed or even handle this. 

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Real Estate Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2016 · 940 posts · 695 votes
9y

@Lauren Van Riper - every post I've read on BP: when a landlord doesn't follow his/her eviction procedures and tries to be nice to tenants, it backfires. Sucks because we all want to be liked and thoughtful of others.

Help them find a new place. Offer to help pay for some moving expense. Whatever you feel comfortable with but if you want them out, allow the eviction process to continue.

So very sorry you've had such a rough experience.

Best of luck.

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114 Replies

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  • Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Lauren, there is no screening for crazy lol, been there done that too. Everything comes back normal and then bam, you have someone that went off the rails in your unit. Sometimes, it happens. This too shall pass, good luck with everything.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed Wouldn't it be great if there was? Oh What a world.

  • Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    A little off topic, but I've seen several comments about asking the evicted tenant to return the keys to the place. Would it not be a wiser choice to just go in and change the locks at 12:01am the "minute after" they were due to be out of the place?

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Wendy Wood If the tenants have not moved, some areas call this "holding over", which you then will need to file eviction for that reason. You can not just change the locks on someone because they were due out. At least not in many areas, but know your local laws and rights.

  • Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Lauren, I know! Seriously, I could probably write a book on bad tenants. We started out 15 years ago and learned a lot. I think you hit the nail on the head with your "gut." Honestly, that has been my biggest factor in renting to people. I do the background but if my gut says, this one is problematic, I pass. Being a landlord, you really can start to get a good read on people after awhile. Over the last 7-8 years, we have had dream tenants, they all pass the gut test lol...

    Once again, good luck with everything. I'm sorry you have to deal with this mess. It happens to the best of us.

  • Northern, CA · Member since 2014 · 674 posts · 444 votes
    9y

    give her the boot, period.  Her problems are not yours but they are becoming yours.  I do not think anyone that gets sucked in to these issues by tenants should be in the rental business.  Ask her to head down to the local grocery store, fill up her cart full of groceries, then instead of paying hand the cashier/store manager a copy of that email and proceed to push cart out of the store and see what they say.

  • Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Lee, I don't think this kind of advice is helpful at all. I think you need to do things methodically. Documenting things and covering yourself. Sometimes, this means taking a hit or a loss and moving on. It happens. Depending on what state you live in, tenants have more rights than landlords. Let me give you a scenario... while I was finalizing my mothers estate, I had to go through an eviction process to get rid of my brother who had been living in my grandmothers house in NY for 25 years. He paid no rent. Anybody that lives in NY, knows that evicting a tenant is a complete nightmare (why I would never want to be a landlord there). They actually have squatters rights (I kid you not). At first, I figured if I talked to him to ask him to leave, he would just do so (we needed money for my moms care). Of course, he told me he had "rights" and he did. Long story short, he hired his own attorney and then in turn, we had to hire an eviction attorney. The entire process took about 14 months to get him evicted, as he kept going to eviction court, pleading his case and getting extensions. As a landlord, If I can work something out and get someone off my property without having to go through an eviction, I would rather do that. Some tenants know how to work the system. It's sad to say this and depending on where you live, things can get tricky. It's not always black and white.

  • Developer · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 137 votes
    9y

    I am an advocate for property managers for situations like this. The first call or contact I would be reaching out for is social services in your area. There is a line between business and charity and sadly in this case that line is growing closer and closer. As the landlord you have tools in the toolbox at your disposal, but so does the tenant and in this case it sounds like you have both reached the limits of both. There is an answer here for both you and your tenant. If you make a couple of phone calls out to your local town in regards to health and safety and social services everybody involved might be able to gain help they need. You could keep your tenant because you want to continue to provide help in the form of housing to someone who could certainly use it, and depending on the rules in your community there could be help rendered in the form of vouchers and other subsidies provided.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Steve B. Thank you for your point of view. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Van Riper:

    Long post -  HELP.

    I got an email this morning from my tenant that I sent a non-renewal letter to last month. I gave this tenant an extra month to find new housing as it is very difficult to find housing here. She has 3 young children and I feel bad for their family, This tenant is manic. Off her meds. They have triggered 6 eviction notices in their year lease. Started with a lease violation of pets. Their dogs on the lease had a litter of 14 puppies that they didn't tell me about. They when I approached them about getting the puppies adopted she told me to get the "f off the property". This was while I was taking my kids down the street to a birthday party and they hear this lady screaming at me about "What should I have done?, Drown the puppies? Did you want me to take a coat hanger to the mother? These things happen!" 

    While I agree that these things happen this was not the reaction I was expecting. Then I get a call from her employer asking for the deposit back that she paid. I ask why, and they tell me that she quit her job.   The tenant tells me she was fired. Then the rent starts not coming in, I can't get a hold of them and they won't answer the door/phone/emails or texts. I understand that can be very stressful. This goes on for 6 months. Then she gets another job and all seems to level out. Then she quits a month later. Rent goes late again. So with 8 late rents, multiple lease violations and hostile interactions with them I decided to not renew the lease. I send the letter a month early and then get an email this morning. This is the first email/communication I have ever gotten from her since she rented a year ago. See the email:

    -- We received your notices to vacate the premises as of May 14th. We have been actively searching and filled out multiple applications for multiple properties. However, our older daughters (XXXXXX-5 and XXXXXXX-4) were in XX visiting our parents for the last month. They returned April 6th, but that night something was wrong with XXXXXX. She has shown signs of some physical, sexual or emotional abuse (we are not sure what yet) and I plan to enroll her in play therapy (per recommendations from our friend who is a preschool owner and teacher.) After she had an episode-that now occur daily, multiple times (which consist of me trying to help her brush her teeth, or another activity, with her panicking and screaming "I just want to go to bed") I overheard XXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX having a conversation that "The lady....touched....where the babies come out." It was difficult to hear the entire conversation because I was in the kitchen, but that was enough along with the behavior to be concerned and seek further assistance.

    At this time, I am very concerned about uprooting her life and finding a new home. She needs stability, she needs familiarity, and what she has here are family and friends that she is comfortable to be around, which we will not have if we move. This whole situation has completely broken my heart, and I do not know what to do. If we could get an extension, or something.....anything....I would forever be in your debt. From one mother to another, please help me. I don't know what to do.

    Thank you for your consideration. --

    I am lost as how to proceed or even handle this. 

     You are to close to the situation on this one. I think you would be better suited to outsource PM to a property management company. You should never intermix things like walking with your kids and interacting with your tenants. It is much better when they do not even know who you are.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 42 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper I've dealt with a similar difficult tenant situation. I would definitely just stick to the eviction process. There is nothing that this tenant has done that merits you sticking your neck out for them any longer. Letting them stay for longer will just mean a potential bigger headache for yourself. 

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @James Wise So because I came here for advice on how to handle a tenant from other pro's I should just give up my job?

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    I think some of are confused/not clear on if you are indeed a professional PM rather than a landlord. And, in turn, that surprises many. What about your fellow PMs in your company to ask about this situation?

    There is a good point--especially to be a professional PM--about having your kids with/near you while interacting with tenants. That probably shouldn't be repeated.

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    OR ... Sneak in at night tie her up in a burlap sack and toss her in the river. Eviction completed, no damage done. Next.

     LOL. "Evictions by Greg - no job too small!"

    Skyline Properties
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  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Van Riper:

    @James Wise So because I came here for advice on how to handle a tenant from other pro's I should just give up my job?

     You seem to have taken an emotional or even offended position to my advice. This is actually the reason I gave you said advice in the 1st place. I think you are focusing to much on emotion and irrelevant details as opposed to methodically making a decision based on nothing other than the financial performance of the investment. Tenants try to take landlord's eye off the ball with details about their personal lives and situations. The landlords that succumb to this end up in trouble. Based on what you have written thus far I made an unemotional observation that you seem to be too emotionally involved with the tenants to manage the property effectively.

    You asked for advise from the pros and I gave it to you. I am sorry if that doesn't make you feel good or offends you in some way but it was simply an honest and unbiased observation from someone who has amassed a $30 million portfolio by making unemotional decisions based on nothing other than the bottom line. What you choose to do with the advice is up to you. I wish you nothing but luck.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @James Wise Yes, I take offense at the only answer from a select few is to quit. I don't feel that this qualifies in my situation. I have sought and found some solid advice here, and from the others, I choose that which doesn't apply to me or my situation to move on. So thank you for your advice.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Van Riper:

    No I am not looking for that I am looking for a way to do it without a crazy woman trashing the property.

     I had one time I felt like this with a tenant. I stuck to my guns on their leaving, but I assured them their deposit in their hand in cash the moment the keys were in my hand. 

    This was enough to motivate them to leave on good terms. I don't know how it works in your state but this was a huge relief. 

  • Bonnie LowPro Member
    Lender · Asheville, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    It's a very bad situation and you have to feel empathy for the kids. But you also must protect yourself. There are agencies that can help her and, as you said, she has friends and family in the area. Get an attorney and get her out as soon as the lease expires. As hard as it is to be tough, her problem is not your problem. You've tried several times to be accommodating and have probably even (unintentionally) conditioned her to expect it. It will never get better. It will only be new or different problems. Try to work through an attorney so you don't have to interact with her. It will be money well spent.
  • Investor · Plymouth, MA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    I would be firm and do what you need to do to get her out of there. From what it sounds like, she has not given you a second of consideration when it came to things you needed of her, so why should you suffer on both ends? I'd say if she were more respectful and considerate of your agreement with her, that it could be different. There is nothing good to come from this relationship.

    Also, there is always a good chance that this is just a story. Which, for me, is motivation to get them out faster.

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 86 posts · 29 votes
    9y

    Good luck and I would only suggest that with your next tenant you do more a thorough screening as it seems to me that this tenant has had some problems for some time which it seems should have been discovered before renting to her.  My biggest problem tenants as a long time landlord have been not doing enough due diligence but over time I learned how to do it better. In addition to the obvious, one of a number of things I learned that helped was to visit the prospective tenant at the residence they are leaving. Bad tenants leave a trail and they usually dont become good tenants.

  • MHP investor from Johns Creek, GA · Member since 2014 · 123 posts · 31 votes
    9y

    I think your response should be:  As much as I feel for the situation you are in, you are making making me lose money month after month.  I can't afford to pay the mortgage on the property that you rent from me.  I need someone in there that can pay the rent.  Otherwise the bank will foreclose eventually.

    Maybe she needs to understand your perspective.

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper

    Easy.  It's called attorney.  Time to lawyer up before she does, IMHO.

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed  No screening for 'crazy'.  I can honestly say I use my 'spidey sense' for that one.  LOL.  If the story doesn't sound right, they are done.  ;-)

  • Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Alan, yup, like I said in the previous comment, being a long term landlord, you really get good at feeling people out after awhile. I think Lauren called it her gut, it's true. It works almost better than the background check! The first thing I say is "I will be doing a full criminal background check" and guess what, half of the applicants go bye bye lol.

    I had one tenant that something told me he had issues. After I got his application, I did a google search and sure enough, his picture came up on an police blotter. He calls back and I say "Before I waste both of our time with a background check, are you sure you have nothing to tell me?" He finally comes clean. I was honest with him, I said the answer is still no. I told him it would be a liability to rent to him under the circumstances and I wished him the best of luck. He was actually really nice and said he understood.

    You really learn a lot about people in this business, for sure!

  • Real Estate Professional · Hayfork, CA · Member since 2015 · 231 posts · 212 votes
    9y

    I wouldn't explain that nothing has changed about the non-renewal.  I would just send a moveout letter that restates the expected moveout date and outlines what your expectations about cleanliness and condition of the rental should be.  That will reinforce the idea that the nonrenewal is still valid.  

    Don't get into conversations with her anymore because she can use those to claim you made promises about an extension or other things.

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