Tenant wants extension - you will not believe the reason

Tenant wants extension - you will not believe the reason

Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes

Long post -  HELP.

I got an email this morning from my tenant that I sent a non-renewal letter to last month. I gave this tenant an extra month to find new housing as it is very difficult to find housing here. She has 3 young children and I feel bad for their family, This tenant is manic. Off her meds. They have triggered 6 eviction notices in their year lease. Started with a lease violation of pets. Their dogs on the lease had a litter of 14 puppies that they didn't tell me about. They when I approached them about getting the puppies adopted she told me to get the "f off the property". This was while I was taking my kids down the street to a birthday party and they hear this lady screaming at me about "What should I have done?, Drown the puppies? Did you want me to take a coat hanger to the mother? These things happen!" 

While I agree that these things happen this was not the reaction I was expecting. Then I get a call from her employer asking for the deposit back that she paid. I ask why, and they tell me that she quit her job.   The tenant tells me she was fired. Then the rent starts not coming in, I can't get a hold of them and they won't answer the door/phone/emails or texts. I understand that can be very stressful. This goes on for 6 months. Then she gets another job and all seems to level out. Then she quits a month later. Rent goes late again. So with 8 late rents, multiple lease violations and hostile interactions with them I decided to not renew the lease. I send the letter a month early and then get an email this morning. This is the first email/communication I have ever gotten from her since she rented a year ago. See the email:

-- We received your notices to vacate the premises as of May 14th. We have been actively searching and filled out multiple applications for multiple properties. However, our older daughters (XXXXXX-5 and XXXXXXX-4) were in XX visiting our parents for the last month. They returned April 6th, but that night something was wrong with XXXXXX. She has shown signs of some physical, sexual or emotional abuse (we are not sure what yet) and I plan to enroll her in play therapy (per recommendations from our friend who is a preschool owner and teacher.) After she had an episode-that now occur daily, multiple times (which consist of me trying to help her brush her teeth, or another activity, with her panicking and screaming "I just want to go to bed") I overheard XXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX having a conversation that "The lady....touched....where the babies come out." It was difficult to hear the entire conversation because I was in the kitchen, but that was enough along with the behavior to be concerned and seek further assistance.

At this time, I am very concerned about uprooting her life and finding a new home. She needs stability, she needs familiarity, and what she has here are family and friends that she is comfortable to be around, which we will not have if we move. This whole situation has completely broken my heart, and I do not know what to do. If we could get an extension, or something.....anything....I would forever be in your debt. From one mother to another, please help me. I don't know what to do.

Thank you for your consideration. --

I am lost as how to proceed or even handle this. 

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Real Estate Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2016 · 940 posts · 695 votes
9y

@Lauren Van Riper - every post I've read on BP: when a landlord doesn't follow his/her eviction procedures and tries to be nice to tenants, it backfires. Sucks because we all want to be liked and thoughtful of others.

Help them find a new place. Offer to help pay for some moving expense. Whatever you feel comfortable with but if you want them out, allow the eviction process to continue.

So very sorry you've had such a rough experience.

Best of luck.

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  • Real Estate Agent · Beaumont, TX · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    As a property manager I would ask she pay up what she owes plus an extra month. Basically she needs to always be a month ahead, that's if she WANTS to stay. I've done this with several tenants, especially ones that pull at our heart strings, and they either do actually pay up or they move out. Just my two cents! :) 

    Hope it works out for you either way you go! 

  • Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 260 posts · 99 votes
    9y
    Put on your big boy pants and evict asap
  • Real Estate Agent · KS · Member since 2017 · 157 posts · 71 votes
    9y

    I've been in a similar situation with an alcoholic tenant with kids......long story short she cost me over $3400.00. I took her to court and WON....but she never made a single court ordered payment, lost her job, and disappeared off the grid. I decided right then that you can't worry about being nice...worry about being fair. "to yourself also"

  • Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Lauren...You have provided this tenant with the correct response.

    If she comes back with another email begging for more time I would suggest no longer responding to her.  

    You have provided her with her move out date.  She is aware of this.   And while she is likely to make further attempts to buy more time to remain the rental unit this issue now closed.   If she remains in the unit after the move out date, the eviction begins.

    Gail
      

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    9y

    Excuses are like a$$holes , we all got em and they all stink .  I learned to listen to the excuses and then say " I am sorry , but you have to move out "   

  • Realtor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 13 votes
    9y
    This is probably not want you want to hear, but you have a letter saying a child was potentially sexually abused-I would ask the tenant if this has been reported to the police department and ask for proof from her. If it has and there is validity to this claim then you have to decide what you feel is the right thing to do. If it hasn't you need to report it and let them sort out what has actually happened. I think this will probably solve the problem you have as well as make sure this gets reported to the proper authorities in Texas.
  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Sounds like a good plan

  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    I am normally very pro tenant, and pro working things out, and figuring out a way to make it a good situation for both parties.. but for lack of better words, this lady has you by the emotional balls-- she knows it too.   Evict ASAP!   It won't get better, because she never has consequences for her actions, so she keeps docking you over right/left.       

  • Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 564 posts · 425 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper

    You've gotten some good advice in this thread, keep it short, professional, and evict if they do not leave. Don't budge another inch.

    I really need to commend you for how well you handled so many people attacking your decisions who know so little about them or you. I feel like a lot of people essentially insulted you and your ability as a PM, and you were very composed about it. Congrats. You sound like you know what you are doing, and you have a ****** tenant trying to manipulate you. I'm sure you will make the right decision.

  • Mayfield Heights, OH · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Being passive won't get you anywhere from personal experiences. Sounds tough, but hey, you were more than forgiving. Kudos to not flying off the handle! Anyways, follow protocol and move forward. Like what everyone else is saying on here, be professional, and get her out as soon as possible. Everyone has excuses, and it's not your job to sift through the mess. DELETE!

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Luc Boiron Simply, Thank you.

  • Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    9y
    I had a very similar situation with tenants except mine were disgusting pigs and hoarders. I had late pay problems maybe 6 times during the entire year that I rented to them. I ended up doing the same thing you did because it was cheaper than having to go through a painful eviction process. I sent out a do not renew notice about 60 days ahead of the end of their lease. The tenant begged to stay and what I told her was that I was doing her a favor by allowing her out of the lease so she could find a place that she could afford because clearly she was not able to afford this place. When they hemmed and hawed about leaving, what I did was I allowed them to use the security deposit for their last month's rent (essentially giving them some money to move out.) I ended up out of pocket that last month's rent but it was the best thing I ever did. Yes, I was out of pocket, but they were gone and I did not have to go through any legal expenses and have them work the system. They were the worst possible tenants I ever had, so my suggestion to you would be to stick to your guns and get those people out of your house even if it costs you a month rent or you have to say give her $500 moving expenses. it's worth it to get somebody decent in there instead. I hate to sound like a jerk but I've heard every sob story in the book and every time I was nice to people and allowed that sob story to sink in I got taken advantage of. Don't be taken advantage of, get these people out.
  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed Exactly. At least I got my trouble tenant early, sticking to my guns, covered everything in writing and plan on fine tuning my gut instinct for the next group of tenants. It has been a learning experience and thats how you grow, you learn from mistakes large and small and move on. Its the fool who doesn't take advantage of the lessons and fails. Everyone had to start somewhere and I choose to make these learning experiences and be better, not bitter.

  • Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Exactly, I cut my losses and moved on, cost of doing business. It was a huge learning experience for me, and looking back there were a lot of red flags with this particular tenant. We were just starting out and made a huge mistake renting to her, but kept positive and found a good tenant instead.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Rely on facts not your gut, your gut is usless in determing quality tenants, facts are all that count. Your gut is simply emotions interfering with business decissions. No place in business for any form of emotions.

    Keep in mind the purpose of this forum is to provide first hand experience to investors. With a forum such as this available to all investors anyone making mistakes is not learning from the experience of others. The idea of learning from your own mistakes is a terrable business approach.  Choose to ignore experience at your own peril.

  • Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Another lesson I learned after several years of landlording was to stop getting personally involved with my tenants.  In the beginning, and while I was really green, I tended to get involved with their personal affairs and that caused me to feel bad for them when they were late paying the rent. I wore my heart on my sleeve and of course got taken advantage of numerous times. I was more concerned with being nice and having a good repor and ultimately, this always backfired. Now after 15 years, it's all bottom line business. I tell them when we sign a lease, pay the rent on time and we get along great. I don't want to hear about personal problems and will tell them so. I keep conversation to a minimum, and bottom line. I've had tenants whine about their problems but they never worry about yours. When something or someone effects my family (like them not paying rent), that's my only concern. Sounds cold, but it's business. 

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Thomas S. I went by the facts and choose a tenant that met all the criteria and passed all the background checks and calls to landlords. What I didn't trust was my gut. I don't see how learning from mistakes is a bad business approach? 

  • Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    I don't think learning from your mistakes is bad, because as a newbie landlord everybody makes mistakes. Anybody on this forum that's never had a mistake in landlording is not being honest. The key is to move past a mistake, learn from it, and do a better job next time.

  • Rental Property Investor · Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island · Member since 2014 · 188 posts · 114 votes
    9y

    And the question on everyone's mind: was there anything about your tenant screening that could have detected this?

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper Don't mind the posts that seem harsh towards you. I promise they are all saying these things to you because they empathize with your frustration and troubles. They are angry for you. They are trying to get a fire lit underneath you.

    Your original post was very detailed and you included how you felt bad about the kids/family/whatever. You mentioned a few times things about how you felt and how you were heart broken for uprooting a family. I believe that because you got too involved with them, you felt so strongly. Heck, you allowed this woman to scream at you about puppies when that was HER fault and HER problem. When she screamed/asked what she should have done regarding the puppies, she showed that she has zero respect for you.

    Your original question about how to tell the tenant the move-out date can't be extended was lost.

    If you haven't yet, please stop talking to this tenant. Just because she contacts you does not mean you are required to respond.

    Regardless of what she says is happening in her life to prevent her from moving, you have given her her move-out date. No further discussion is needed. At the *most*, you simply restate that the move-out date is X date and you expect keys returned and place empty. If that day comes and goes with nothing, the very next morning you wake up (assuming it's a business day) and go file for the first step in eviction.

    Even with your best tenants, always keep yourself at a distance. A great tenant relationship can last years, and suddenly go down the drain the instant they disagree with you. Best of luck!

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Sebastien Hitier if there was I didn't see it. The tenant was a traveling RN making 90K a year. I called all the employers and said she did solid work. Got the boilerplate answer from the landlords and credit check was within my criteria for the rent. So to answer the question, I got the one that went off the rails (and meds). 

    @Nicole A. I keep all my tenants at arms length. I am not here to be friends I am here to rent them a good place to live. I understand everyone is passionate. Hence why I came here for suggestions so I can learn. Myself and others don't need the unhelpful 'advice'.  Thank you for your response.

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper With all due respect, according what you told us in your post, that is not the actions of keeping someone at arm's length. 

    You have received many very helpful bits of advice that I hope you have taken action on. I'm not sure what else besides stop talking to this person and evict legally needs to be suggested.

    Get your property back and lessen your stress. And please keep us posted on your progress!

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Oh and never fall for that "from one mother to another" or "woman to woman" line. Talk about the biggest BS flag ever waved! That is classic language to play on your emotions. So your only response to the email is to simply, professionally, and kindly (but not apologetically) reiterate the last day of the lease. And be ready to take action if they stay beyond the time they have.

    Also, I've never heard of an employer asking for a tenant's security deposit. That is also very questionable.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Nicole A. I think you are confusing her letter to me as my involvement. I said I felt bad for her family. That was the extent. Every instance of a break in the lease was met with certified letters and outcomes. Eviction notices were sent triggering payment. I have stopped communication with her and the husband. The pending lease end is coming and if she chooses not to leave then proper actions will happen. I will update how this all plays out but I will state again I run my business as a business, legal and above board at all times.

  • Investor · Brandon, FL · Member since 2017 · 178 posts · 67 votes
    9y

    "Are you a charity or a business?" -Brandon, BP

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