Tenant wants extension - you will not believe the reason

Tenant wants extension - you will not believe the reason

Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes

Long post -  HELP.

I got an email this morning from my tenant that I sent a non-renewal letter to last month. I gave this tenant an extra month to find new housing as it is very difficult to find housing here. She has 3 young children and I feel bad for their family, This tenant is manic. Off her meds. They have triggered 6 eviction notices in their year lease. Started with a lease violation of pets. Their dogs on the lease had a litter of 14 puppies that they didn't tell me about. They when I approached them about getting the puppies adopted she told me to get the "f off the property". This was while I was taking my kids down the street to a birthday party and they hear this lady screaming at me about "What should I have done?, Drown the puppies? Did you want me to take a coat hanger to the mother? These things happen!" 

While I agree that these things happen this was not the reaction I was expecting. Then I get a call from her employer asking for the deposit back that she paid. I ask why, and they tell me that she quit her job.   The tenant tells me she was fired. Then the rent starts not coming in, I can't get a hold of them and they won't answer the door/phone/emails or texts. I understand that can be very stressful. This goes on for 6 months. Then she gets another job and all seems to level out. Then she quits a month later. Rent goes late again. So with 8 late rents, multiple lease violations and hostile interactions with them I decided to not renew the lease. I send the letter a month early and then get an email this morning. This is the first email/communication I have ever gotten from her since she rented a year ago. See the email:

-- We received your notices to vacate the premises as of May 14th. We have been actively searching and filled out multiple applications for multiple properties. However, our older daughters (XXXXXX-5 and XXXXXXX-4) were in XX visiting our parents for the last month. They returned April 6th, but that night something was wrong with XXXXXX. She has shown signs of some physical, sexual or emotional abuse (we are not sure what yet) and I plan to enroll her in play therapy (per recommendations from our friend who is a preschool owner and teacher.) After she had an episode-that now occur daily, multiple times (which consist of me trying to help her brush her teeth, or another activity, with her panicking and screaming "I just want to go to bed") I overheard XXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX having a conversation that "The lady....touched....where the babies come out." It was difficult to hear the entire conversation because I was in the kitchen, but that was enough along with the behavior to be concerned and seek further assistance.

At this time, I am very concerned about uprooting her life and finding a new home. She needs stability, she needs familiarity, and what she has here are family and friends that she is comfortable to be around, which we will not have if we move. This whole situation has completely broken my heart, and I do not know what to do. If we could get an extension, or something.....anything....I would forever be in your debt. From one mother to another, please help me. I don't know what to do.

Thank you for your consideration. --

I am lost as how to proceed or even handle this. 

0Reply
285 views

Most Popular Reply

Real Estate Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2016 · 940 posts · 695 votes
9y

@Lauren Van Riper - every post I've read on BP: when a landlord doesn't follow his/her eviction procedures and tries to be nice to tenants, it backfires. Sucks because we all want to be liked and thoughtful of others.

Help them find a new place. Offer to help pay for some moving expense. Whatever you feel comfortable with but if you want them out, allow the eviction process to continue.

So very sorry you've had such a rough experience.

Best of luck.

See this reply in the discussion

114 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Get them gone.


    I'm curious what warning signs did you ignore when you signed these folks on the lease. What did their prior landlord and more importantly 2 x prior landlord say when you called? 

  • Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 305 votes
    9y

    Send her the phone number to a crisis/women's shelter, file for eviction ASAP.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Tim G. The prior landlords all gave me the blanket boilerplate "We cannot comment on the tenant but the rent was paid on time." There was a full background check run on them.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Sounds to me like your are a confusing social worker with PM. There is zero tollerance in this business for emotions or compassion. As a PM you have only one purpose and that is to insure you protect your employers investment. Tenants  are not special people and deserve no special considerations when interfering with a landlords business. The fact is you should have followed through with a eviction long before now.

    You are being lied to and played by this tenant and falling for every bit of it. You should have put her worthless butt on the curb long before now. Hopefully you will not repeat your mistakes and learn from the mistakes of others rather than make them yourself. Remember in the future when dealing with business decisions....leave your emotions at home.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Van Riper:

    @Tim G. The prior landlords all gave me the blanket boilerplate "We cannot comment on the tenant but the rent was paid on time." There was a full background check run on them.

     Oh got it. Sorry you're stuck with this. I wouldn't make this your problem, this persons been an ******* before. Trust your gut, if you came here looking for someone to say don't feel bad kick em out. I'm here to say it.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    No I am not looking for that I am looking for a way to do it without a crazy woman trashing the property.

  • Flower Mound, TX · Member since 2014 · 18 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    Perhaps playing the "new start" card would be an angle since her children are so traumatized by this alleged event. You might also stipulate since she failed to notify you of have a pet, let alone a litter of 14 puppies, she was in breach of your agreement, and in fact have lied. Since she lied to you once, how can you take anything she says in good faith today? While I understand your position (I am a big softy too) the simple fact remains: This woman has made and continues to make bad decisions and needs to get her own act together. Why must you pay that price?

  • Real Estate Broker · East TN Loudon/Lenoir City/Tellico Village · Member since 2014 · 363 posts · 222 votes
    9y
    Lots of people fall on hard times and if this person truly has family and friends around close they can help her through this! Your a business not a charity! Stick to you eviction terms and follow through! I agree to offer cash for keys but make sure everything is out first! You can do this and remember you did your best all through the lease terms! Time to be tough and move forward! You may need to consult local eviction attorney but I bet cash for keys will motivate! Good luck and hang in there!
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Van Riper:

    If I could delete this thread I would. Maybe I was unclear in what I was seeking: I was asking for help in how I can explain that nothing has changed about the non-renewal. And with some helpful suggestions, I have also been told that I am in the wrong business and start running a charity. Every late rent eviction notice after every break of the lease terms has been met with payment. At the end of the lease I have sent her a non-renewal letter early even so they could have plenty of time to find new perhaps more accommodating tenancy. I am running a business and have been treating it as such. If you do not have anything helpful to say, as my mother told me feel, free to keep it to yourself.

     I don't think you were clear about that. Your thread ended with "I am at a loss on how to proceed" or something similar. When I read it, it sounded to me like you were unsure whether to extend her more time or not. 

    If you do this long enough, you will hear every sob story in the book. This makes it more difficult if you are a people person. 

    Skyline Properties
    View Page
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Van Riper:

    @Tim G. The prior landlords all gave me the blanket boilerplate "We cannot comment on the tenant but the rent was paid on time." There was a full background check run on them.

     This is a big reason why we don't bother contacting previous landlords. Certain things in life ring true - people who maintain steady employment, good credit histories, no legal trouble, no evictions, and are nice people - usually don't end up as deadbeats, and the flip side is also true. If I can't decide if you'll be a good tenant based on meeting you, talking to you for 30-1hr, and reviewing your credit, criminal and eviction history, I probably shouldn't rent to you at all. 

    Skyline Properties
    View Page
  • Investor · West Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 230 posts · 239 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper

    I Think people are reacting to the obvious way this tenant is manipulating you rather than attacking you personally.  Since we have no dog in the fight sometimes the observation is more detached.  You say you were looking for advice but it seems like you have a solution to this problem which as you stated is to not renew her lease.  I personally don't believe her as I've known a few survivors of trauma and they never use the fact that they were abused in order to get accommodations.  Usually they feel a sense of shame and embarrassment even though it wasn't their fault and are not willing to publicly announce the abuse. Furthermore given her emotional instability it makes me doubt her claims even more.  

    As others have stated non of this is your problem.  Not the tight rental market nor the alleged abuse.  Just continue to stick to your plan -which it sounds like you're doing and move on.

    Good luck

  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    9y
    Business, not personal. Not your problem.
  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @JD Martin:
    Originally posted by @Lauren Van Riper:

    @Tim G. The prior landlords all gave me the blanket boilerplate "We cannot comment on the tenant but the rent was paid on time." There was a full background check run on them.

     This is a big reason why we don't bother contacting previous landlords. Certain things in life ring true - people who maintain steady employment, good credit histories, no legal trouble, no evictions, and are nice people - usually don't end up as deadbeats, and the flip side is also true. If I can't decide if you'll be a good tenant based on meeting you, talking to you for 30-1hr, and reviewing your credit, criminal and eviction history, I probably shouldn't rent to you at all. 

     You're right, for me I'm screening one maybe two tenants a year. I like to make that call and just see if I can get any other info. Its saved me, but like you said those reservations appeared when I met them. For the more unsure landlord those extra pieces of intel can be super helpful in giving you the confidence on the tough calls early in the game. 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y

    I just got rid of these same people in January I swear. Same drama and excuses, including lots of animals. "We can't find anything new to rent. What about little Eddie? What will he do? Trust us. We will make it right if we just have a little more time. Disability is coming through. HUD payments are about to start.... " And so it went.

    4 years of these people for me.  I did a CSI on how I got them in the first place.  I was making it ready 4 years ago and they stopped in.  I didn't do any of my normal screening steps, other than checking their current place and talking to that LL.  My screening is much more diligent as I'm sure yours will be.  You are right, this experience will make you a better landlord or send you packing.  My guess is you will stick with it and be better for it @Lauren Van Riper.

    I ended up hiring an attorney that recently quit Legal Aid (free legal services for low income folks) and hung his own shingle.  I needed the guy they used to go to.  The city and state here are so tenant friendly.

    Anyway - after serving a proper 3-day, we did a stipulation order giving them a few weeks to leave, signed by a judge.  If they didn't leave, it would go straight to a sheriff's removal (Writ of Restitution).  We needed to avoid a trial drama with these people and it worked.  They left and I got my life back.  Best $1500 I ever spent!

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed Yes, you are quite right as this is the first time she has reached out during her tenancy, I am not apt to believe her as she has lied previously. She is completely unstable and her FB reinforces this. I have moved on. I have replied to her and stated that it is not possible to extend her lease as there is a waiting list for the unit and with the help of her friends and family that she will find the help she needs in a new home. Thank you to those that offered suggestions I am most appreciative.

  • Real Estate Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2014 · 236 posts · 328 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper "The only response to her that at this point that is appropriate to give is, in a email and you could drop at door also is, : I received your email. Attached is the move out check list. I will not be able to extend the date any further. Please have your keys turned in by 12 noon that day and all personal belonging removed." 

    THIS!!!! A THOUSAND TIMES!!! 

    The best other suggestion is Cash for Keys because 1) it will make sure she leaves without you paying for an eviction, and 2) you will make sure that nothing is damaged because if she damages more than the security deposit (because she is angry and unstable) then you will be out of luck. I know you don't want to reward bad behavior, but it's a cost-benefit thing, not an emotional thing.  If Bank of America is okay with it, then you should be too. 

    Don't bring up or talk to her about her personal problems, whatever they are, because it's not your business. Your last name isn't Gallo and you're not in the white whine business.  Citibank doesn't get involved in her Drama Mama stuff and neither should you.  Good luck and don't forget to post a follow up when she leaves!  

  • Real Estate Agent · Morgantown, WV · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 41 votes
    9y

    My mom's the PM in NC (her name is @Beckie Pahner but her locale of Pinehurst may have different regs/laws). But you're welcome to ask her...This just came up as an 'keyword alert.' My 2cents is call CPS ASAP about the abuse (even if it's a lie, you'll have documented that you did the right thing and called(!), and they'll check out whether she as a mother if fit, or unhinged/unstable. And if the abuse story is true, the girl will get the help she needs -- regarding the mother, and the abuse.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    Can't give legal advice. I do not do residential anymore. 

    TENANTS can play on your emotions especially residential ones. If the landlord cannot evict on Christmas day for non-payment then you are in the wrong business.

    Landlords try to reason with tenants emotionally, in dollars and sense,etc.

    Tenants will manipulate whoever they can that is listening. You as a landlord did not create the life choices for this tenant that have lead up to this moment.

    Sounds like you should have evicted a long time ago. The money for non-rent payment is affecting you the landlord's family likely emotionally and financially. Being a landlord is a BUSINESS and you have to be hard nosed at certain times. If owning a property directly is too emotional or difficult there are many other types of real estate investing that do not require this component.

    Some people mention living in one unit and renting out the others. That is something I would never want to do. I like my space and no headaches.

    As a real estate investor knowing what you want out of an investment and what is a good match takes some self discovery. 

    I like commercial real estate personally for a variety of reasons. Tends to be less of a headache and more passive but down fall is you need a lot more money to start with it. 

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Connie Bhimireddy I have already spoken with the county Social Services. And gotten a call from the father and mother asking why I lodged a complaint with Social Services. I had to explain that I did not lodge a complaint but made Social Services aware that she had sent me an email and told me about the abuse and I felt it necessary to let Social Services so there would be no repercussions about me not notifying an authority. It is with the county to sort this out now.

  • Jennifer T.Pro Member
    Investor · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 944 votes
    9y

    No helpful advice, other than to keep standing firm on her move-out date.

    It's just so eye-rolling with her "mother to mother" plea...yet she had no problem taking the proverbial food out of your children's mouths (ie by not paying her rent on time) and cussing you out in front of them.

  • Investor · Downers Grove, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 955 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper 

    Plenty of great advice given especially by @Deanna McCormick @Michaela G. @Steve Vaughan

    Depending on how the conversation goes, you may have to consider cash for keys as a carrot for them to move, followed up by the stick to follow through. Since social services already contacted them, they should know you mean business.

    Maybe giving them a little $ will make you feel better and more importantly, leave your place intact. Definitely not meant to reward bad behavior. 

    I wouldn't help them find another place either. If their future landlord calls you up with the same issues (based on your recommendations), it will make you feel worse. 

    Good luck

  • Investor · Gaithersburg, MD · Member since 2013 · 660 posts · 441 votes
    9y

    It's a sucky situation.  This is why I use professional PM's.  Sure it costs money, but in a situation like this, it's well worth it.

    I am always about trying to help people out, but this is way beyond that.  When I say helping people out, I mean waiving a late fee the first time they are late or letting them go month to month without raising the rent for few months, etc.  I also based that "help" on past payment performance, NOT a personal situation.  Never get involved in any way with a tenant's personal situation.  If a tenant comes to me and says "I need an extra week to pay rent this month", I don't ask why. If they have paid on time every time for a period, sure, I'll do it.  But again, if they try and go into why I either ignore it or cut them off and say I'll do it based on their past payment history.

    I think as of this letter, this is now something you do NOT want to be involved in.  I would simply send a letter back reinforcing the move out date. Do not mention the situation or try and sympathize in any way in written form.  Even if this is 100% true on her side (I'm having a hard time believing what she wrote is truthful due to history).  If she doesn't comply, I would follow through with the eviction process according to what is legal.  Any future e-mails I would ignore and just follow the process and provide whatever legal notice is required.  If she calls, tell her you cannot take anything other than past payment history into account and that's why you have decided to not renew the lease.  Then simply hang up if she tries to go into any other reasoning.

    I'm sure there are other people that would be more sympathetic, but in this case you have no way of knowing if any of this is true (and you don't want to know) and therefore you can't pay attention to it.

    Good luck!

  • FL · Member since 2016 · 912 posts · 107 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Van Riper:

    Long post -  HELP.

    I got an email this morning from my tenant that I sent a non-renewal letter to last month. I gave this tenant an extra month to find new housing as it is very difficult to find housing here. She has 3 young children and I feel bad for their family, This tenant is manic. Off her meds. They have triggered 6 eviction notices in their year lease. Started with a lease violation of pets. Their dogs on the lease had a litter of 14 puppies that they didn't tell me about. They when I approached them about getting the puppies adopted she told me to get the "f off the property". This was while I was taking my kids down the street to a birthday party and they hear this lady screaming at me about "What should I have done?, Drown the puppies? Did you want me to take a coat hanger to the mother? These things happen!" 

    While I agree that these things happen this was not the reaction I was expecting. Then I get a call from her employer asking for the deposit back that she paid. I ask why, and they tell me that she quit her job.   The tenant tells me she was fired. Then the rent starts not coming in, I can't get a hold of them and they won't answer the door/phone/emails or texts. I understand that can be very stressful. This goes on for 6 months. Then she gets another job and all seems to level out. Then she quits a month later. Rent goes late again. So with 8 late rents, multiple lease violations and hostile interactions with them I decided to not renew the lease. I send the letter a month early and then get an email this morning. This is the first email/communication I have ever gotten from her since she rented a year ago. See the email:

    -- We received your notices to vacate the premises as of May 14th. We have been actively searching and filled out multiple applications for multiple properties. However, our older daughters (XXXXXX-5 and XXXXXXX-4) were in XX visiting our parents for the last month. They returned April 6th, but that night something was wrong with XXXXXX. She has shown signs of some physical, sexual or emotional abuse (we are not sure what yet) and I plan to enroll her in play therapy (per recommendations from our friend who is a preschool owner and teacher.) After she had an episode-that now occur daily, multiple times (which consist of me trying to help her brush her teeth, or another activity, with her panicking and screaming "I just want to go to bed") I overheard XXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX having a conversation that "The lady....touched....where the babies come out." It was difficult to hear the entire conversation because I was in the kitchen, but that was enough along with the behavior to be concerned and seek further assistance.

    At this time, I am very concerned about uprooting her life and finding a new home. She needs stability, she needs familiarity, and what she has here are family and friends that she is comfortable to be around, which we will not have if we move. This whole situation has completely broken my heart, and I do not know what to do. If we could get an extension, or something.....anything....I would forever be in your debt. From one mother to another, please help me. I don't know what to do.

    Thank you for your consideration. --

    I am lost as how to proceed or even handle this. 

     You should have kicked her out a long time ago and never let her move in with a dog in the first place.

  • Rental Property Investor · Allentown PA, United States · Member since 2016 · 567 posts · 442 votes
    9y

    Normally, under those extreme circumstances I would be accommodating as possible. But considering her prior history and tendency to manipulate and take advance; do you even believe her? Now obviously you do not want to admit that there might be doubt in your mind on whether or not she is being truthful, but this situation has the potential to negatively affect your business. I think you have to go about it in the most professional way possible such as stating you already have a tenant looking to fill the property once she vacates and possibly offer her any assistance you can such as some help moving.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    "No I am not looking for that I am looking for a way to do it without a crazy woman trashing the property."

    You do not waste time or effort being concerned about what might happen. Serve the eviction and follow through to completion. Damage by tenants is far less common than the hobby landlords afraid of eviction believe it to be.

    The proper approach, business wise, it to evict.

    If your primary concern is the possibility of her doing damage you are distracted and not taking care of your business. Evict her.

    OR ... Sneak in at night tie her up in a burlap sack and toss her in the river. Eviction completed, no damage done. Next.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.