Rental Property Investor · Pulaski, VA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 31 votes
I have a tenant that will start a lease on May 1. The house was already in livable condition but I have improved it by installing a new toilet, painting every room, tearing the kitchen down to the studs and installing brand new flooring, cabinets, and appliances. I have added a LOT of value to this property.
I have been sending her updates of the new kitchen and freshly painted rooms and all she comments on is small things that she wants me to do and frankly do not have time to do between now and her move in date.
Recently she has asked that I paint the ceilings. all of them look fine to me. there is one bedroom that has some small yellow stars painted on the ceiling but they are not very noticeable. she wants me to paint at least this one room but I am getting married this weekend and will be gone until she moves in. I told her this so now she wants her and her husband to do the painting.
she has also asked me to tear down the paneling in the third bedroom and replace with drywall. I said no, so she asked If they could do it themselves.
another time she asked if they could frame in the basement. I said no, she asked if they could do it themselves.
now she has asked if I will do a lease to own.
I feel like I have made this house into a comfortable home for her and her husband to live in so when will the questions for more improvements stop and how can I politely answer all of these never ending requests?
Professional · Nokomis, FL · Member since 2013 · 123 posts · 99 votes
9y
You will learn quickly how to say no... Only took my wife about a week after the wedding! :-)
But seriously, just stick to the lease, do not let them make modifications and make your new husband out to be a pitbull landlord that you will let loose if things continue down the same road.
Most importantly... enjoy your day! That is more important than anything else.
Real Estate Agent · West Sayville, NY · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 7 votes
9y
@Virginia Jones I think you're missing the point...TELL them there will be no more improvements. TELL them they can't do any work to the property. TELL them they are renting it As-is. I understand that they already signed the lease with you. But if they cannot abide by YOUR rules and are unhappy, you will let them out of their lease, without penalty. They still have time to find another place. And you can find a renter that won't question everything and break your balls for the entire length of the lease.
Now have the conversation with them...Then enjoy your honeymoon!!
I think you have gotten some good advice. Another way to say "no" nicely is to attach a dollar amount to it every time.
"Will you put a garbage disposal in"
"Oh, that is a great idea, if you will use it I can get one and installed for about (mentally thinking $360) about $35 a month, did you want me to get that setup?"
"Can we get a chair rail around the dining room?"
"I think that would look wonderful, I got a guy that can put it in cheaply, We can be in at about $22 a month, what time is good to set that up"?
Clovis, CA · Member since 2013 · 16 posts · 1 vote
9y
I dealt with this through a long term family commercial investment since a young age. Unfortunately our tenants was very much a niche market that was part of a big but small community. Saying no was often difficult without community slander. But over time you'll learn to massage your standing and stay firm with your decisions. Not everything needs to be cut and dry, but definitely none that should completely displace your position as the owner and landlord.
Real Estate Investor · Peabody, MA · Member since 2013 · 304 posts · 91 votes
9y
Like they say keep in mind the 80/20 rule. Except don't allow that 20% to capitalize on 80% of your time. When I get them I usually try to consciously focus on my other residents and projects and give the high maintenance residents minimal time and service. Typically with this approach they either leave or realize the situation for what it is.
Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 76 posts · 19 votes
9y
As most of others have shared here, allowing tenants to modify the property usually leads to problems down the road. All lease agreements should be worded with "As-is" or "no modifications allowed" to avoid some of these pitfalls.
The other key piece of being a landlord is working on detaching yourself from the emotional aspect of things. That doesn't mean be bad at customer service. It means learn to treat it as a business deal and play it by the rules regardless of how much you may like a person.
It makes everything much easier. It took me a long time to realize this, but once I did my business skyrocketed.
Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2017 · 453 posts · 254 votes
9y
@Virginia Jones As far as the painting and the paneling I would say let them do it but you will not pay for it or deduct it from the rent and that if the work is not high quality then they will have to restore it to original condition or pay for the work to be redone by a professional on their move out. As far as the lease to own maybe look at a lease option instead. You collect rent plus an option contract fee, then they typically will take better care of the property. Only do that however if you are ok with letting go of the property in the future. hope that helps.
Investor · Oak Park, IL · Member since 2014 · 307 posts · 150 votes
9y
When she was looking for an apartment, I assume she looked at several, and yours won out as the best option, having superior finishes and qualities to the others she didn't select. If she found your unit lacking, why did she select it? Other units may have had some superior features, but to some extent you get what you pay for. Also, I have found having conversations which focus on what I did to the apartment and what I could do gets the tenant thinking in terms of what the landlady upgrade the unit, so I tend to focus on what is there as a finished product.
Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes
9y
@Virginia Jones, we all start out wanting to be nice in this business because who wants to be the stereotypical mean and greedy landlord we've seen in the movies, right? Then WE LEARN.
If you can push this tenant out of the lease, do it. Unfortunately, you have already trained these tenants how to treat you and the requests will not stop with making improvements. This is just the beginning, because their requests have now ventured into lease to own negotiation. The next thing they'll be doing is negotiating on when they pay the rent. Let them know you will not be making any more improvements to the unit or allowing them to do any modifications to the unit. If that is unacceptable to them, inform them you will let them out of the lease. BTW, this is another reason to start out with a month to month agreement if you are new to being a landlord.
If they want to stay and you can't get out of the lease, hire a property management company and have all communication with the tenant go through them. Let the PM be the tough guy while you get up to speed on training tenants instead of having them train you.
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 4 votes
9y
I agree with the other person who recommended bringing a dollar amount into it - I do that to pushy tenants and its worked well in the past. I just say, that's definitely a possibility but I would need to raise the rent x amount since now you will have a much nicer unit. It just reinforces the fact that each of these "little things" really adds up.
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Mike Cumbie nailed it right on the head! I always tell people we'll continually improve the property, so each year that they renew, we like to invest $$ into improving the property by letting the tenants pick the improvements ( up to $200), so I'd tell them that's something we can look into adding in the future. Giving someone the option at a higher rent is a fantastic way to say yes, but let them know stuff doesn't come free-- the base apartment didn't come with that. Good luck, and stand firm with your lease... tenants are like toddlers in their terrible 2's starting out, they'll push every button and test everything they can in the first few months-- your best option is to be very firm and direct.
Tenants and you husband to be have one thing in common.
They both have to be trained and boundaries set.
What would you do if your husband to al of a sudden be decided to be this demanding a week before the wedding. I bet you would kick him to the curb and move on with your life.
I would tell this person that it appears that you are not the right fit as a landlord and you will be glad to let them out of the lease. The fact that they have given notice and planning on moving is not your problem. It sounds like you have a good property and it will rent quickly.
Investor · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 4 votes
9y
Virginia:
Stop torturing yourself. Hire a property manager. The small commission paid is much more advantageous than you can imagine. It will save your sanity and make your business flourish.
The reason people hate being a landlord is they are personally involved in their tenants "world". Don't be. This is a business, tenants are the income stream. Make sure the MANAGER knows how to say no and you won't have to. Forget about your perceived "lose of control". If the property manager is good (get referrals) then you will spend your time doing property deals which is where the real money is. You will end up making more money with a manager in place after a short while. Why?
Without tenants, toilets, and trauma you're only spending your time looking for and doing deals. You will be so much happier. If the property is a break even or positive cash flow with the manager in place, do it! If the property can not support a manager (it's probably not a good investment property) and you insist on keeping it you should...
Put the title in a trust or LLC (or change your existing Trust or LLC on title to a new one). Then send a very very short business (non-personal) letter to the tenant (DO NOT CALL THE TENANT) that says:
Dear Tenants at (the address):
The (home, apartment, condo, etc at address) is now owned and managed by (Name of Trust or Name of LLC). Please make all rent payments to (name of Trust or LLC). A representative of the the trust (or LLC) will be your contact and will reach out to you shortly with additional information. Please do not contact the former owner, they will simply refer you back to the new management. Thank you.
Sincerely,
(Name of new Trust or LLC) * do NOT put your name here!
Then, do not answer the tenants calls (use caller ID). Do not call or write to the tenant yourself. If the tenant gets through to you somehow, just say "I'm sorry, I'm not the owner anymore (name of trust or llc) is". Please contact the new management. There number is....". Then,
Get a PO box and have the trust or llc tell the tenants to mail rent checks to the trust or llc. Get an answering service (cheap). Let the service answer take all tenant calls on a specific number (NOT YOUR OWN NUMBER). Have them answer calls "Hello (this is Name of trust or llc". Have them take all tenant's messages. Then the service gives you the message. Do not let the service give out your name or number, NEVER. You can even use a cheap recorded voice mail service (do not use your number) that records tenants messages (no live operator). You retrieve the messages. You will delegate all repairs to a handyman or someone of your choice. DO NOT do repairs yourself even if it costs a few extra bucks. Make sure the repair person NEVER mentions your name to the tenant and refers only to the (trust or LLC). And,
Find a realtor (anyone but yourself) cut a deal. Pay them a small fixed amount per conversation (it's easy money) with the tenant. Hire a "hungry" realtor to be the voice of the trust or llc. The realtor never mentions your name just the trust or llc. Do not do a standard management deal with the realtor. You will give info to the realtor, they relay the info to the tenant. They are the mouthpiece for the trust, llc. The realtor tells the tenant to always call the management service (answering service number) first for all needs (not the realtor).
If you need to deliver a late notice, notice of eviction, etc, let the realtor sign them for the trust. If you ever need to evict, NEVER do it yourself. Have an attorney specializing in evictions do it for the trust or llc. None of this is expensive. And will save your sanity. But honestly,
If the property does not cash flow enough to have a property manager do all this, get a different property. The beauty of doing that: It can be a cheaper property in a lesser area (drop your ego). Why? Because it will cash flow better and using a property manager you never have to deal with the tenants.
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
That seems like a lot of work...just to what, make it look like she's no longer the owner/landlord?
To those insinuating/saying she's already lost the tenant's respect...just because a landlord starts off too lenient doesn't mean they have lost that control/respect forever. You simply change your behavior by being less personal, less eager-to-please (but still friendly), and setting boundaries (not always immediately answering to their calls/requests/complaints). You'll see "friendly but firm" a lot on these forums. Live by those words.
Real Estate Investor · Peabody, MA · Member since 2013 · 304 posts · 91 votes
9y
I agree with the friendly but firm. I might add distant, I've even lived in my properties and people don't usually bother me when I'm outside washing my car etc. because I told them to submit everything on paper in writing because I tend to forget.
I understand it's hard to tell people no sometimes. I want to do all I can for my tenants. However, at some point you need to earn a return. When someone leases a home, its expected there will be no more improvements, and the house is as is. If you want to do a few things here or there, for good tenants sure. But the only thing legally you have to do is provide a livable, safe home.
If you are doing that, then you are honoring your contract. Good luck
Rental Property Investor · Pulaski, VA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 31 votes
9y
Thanks for the help everybody. I told her "I am sorry you are not happy with the current condition. I will be happy to refund your money and release you from the lease". She let me know the next day that she would like to be released. What a sense of relief!
Investor · Portsmouth, VA · Member since 2016 · 289 posts · 107 votes
9y
its definitely for the best @Virginia Jones. My tenant that I mentioned earlier just asked me to bring him bug spray! Haha Good luck on finding another tenant!
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
9y
Congratulations on separating yourself from this tenant, @Virginia Jones . Even if it sits empty for a month, you will be in a better position than if you had continued with this tenant.
Go get married, then come back and rent this property out.
I have a similar problem. A Tenant moved in this week but didn't have time to do walkthrough. Upon moving in, he complained about the paint job. I promised him that I will ONLY pain the walls when they came to see the
home first AND second time. They are complaining about the microwave (which they saw 2x) not being up to their standards. There are few repairs that they mentioned which
I will do. I have agreed to replace the microwave as it's ending it's shelf-life anyway. It will add to my property and rent value in future (hopefully).
The tenant has sent me a notice of repairs with google-search copy-pastes of NJ "Implied Warranty of Habitability" clauses. He is saying there are paint chips. I got the
CO from township 2 days before he moved in! I told him to call the township construction office if he wants to know what's legal and what's not. This is only my 2nd tenant.
My first tenant was fairly easy going. Took the condo as-is and didn't really care. My biggest fear now is that this guy will now request everything under the sun. He promises that this
will be it because that's all they need to settle down in the house. They have already moved in by the way. i need some serious advice as to what I need to do in future?
I have a similar problem. A Tenant moved in this week but didn't have time to do walkthrough. Upon moving in, he complained about the paint job. I promised him that I will ONLY pain the walls when they came to see the
home first AND second time. They are complaining about the microwave (which they saw 2x) not being up to their standards. There are few repairs that they mentioned which
I will do. I have agreed to replace the microwave as it's ending it's shelf-life anyway. It will add to my property and rent value in future (hopefully).
The tenant has sent me a notice of repairs with google-search copy-pastes of NJ "Implied Warranty of Habitability" clauses. He is saying there are paint chips. I got the
CO from township 2 days before he moved in! I told him to call the township construction office if he wants to know what's legal and what's not. This is only my 2nd tenant.
My first tenant was fairly easy going. Took the condo as-is and didn't really care. My biggest fear now is that this guy will now request everything under the sun. He promises that this
will be it because that's all they need to settle down in the house. They have already moved in by the way. i need some serious advice as to what I need to do in future?
First, you will get more advice by making your own thread, instead of posting on another.
Second, if you know you are up to date on safety and habitability, just let the tenant know that the unit is rented as-is, and you have no plans to make upgrades at that time. If they continue to push, you can say "that's a great idea. I'll get a quote and let you know how much additional rent will be required in order to accommodate the upgrade."
If they really push, hit them with the happy clause. "You don't seem to happy living in my unit. I want you to be happy, so I will be willing to let you out of the lease if you provide 60 notice."
Don't let them bully you with their Lawyers degree from Google.com. Stand your ground, and say no. If they blow up your phone, let them leave voicemails and respond with text messages, only to important issues.
