How much info can a PM share with a landlord?
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Anthony GaydenPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votesPaul Post
What do you mean? With concern to your property, I would say a PM should disclose anything and everything that you ask them to disclose.
47 Replies
- 8yAnthony GaydenPro MemberRental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votesPaul Post What do you mean? With concern to your property, I would say a PM should disclose anything and everything that you ask them to disclose.
- Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes8yThey can share everything and you should make sure that is stated somewhere in your agreement with them.
- 8yAnthony GaydenPro MemberRental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Paul Post:
Is a PM allowed to share the tenants application including credit reports and other info that is collected during the application process?
If my PM wouldn't allow me to see anything with regards to tenants living in my property I would fire them.
This is your property. You own it, not the property manager. You have the right to know everything with concern to the tenants who will be living there. Also you have the right to make all decisions. Obviously delegating responsibility is an absolute necessity, but I have vetoed the opinion of my PM before.
Since you may be held legally liable for anything that happens on your property, it is important that your PM not hide anything from you.
- Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 4 votes8yThat is what I thought, but they are telling me it is against the law to share credit info. My initial google searches seem to back their claim: http://www.excalhomes.com/excalibur_home_management_blog/why_can-t_i_get_a_copy_of_my_tenant-s_credit_report
- Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes8yI disagree with that blog entry. The tenants are completing an application including permission to run a credit check. Their application needs to be reviewed by the PM and owner. If that’s not the case, the PM needs to change the disclosure text in their application to include the property owner as well. It’s all about ‘appropriate’ use - and you reviewing the application, credit, background, etc is easily justifiable as appropriate. They need to fix their process. They are basically telling you to trust them with no ability for you to verify. How is that good business practice?
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes8y
NO!
The property manager should NEVER release the credit report to an owner. READ THIS ARTICLE
The tenant is authorizing you to run a credit/criminal for the purpose of renting. Once they've been screened, that purpose is met. It does not authorize you to use their information for other reasons and you would open yourself up to a potential lawsuit. I don't even keep copies in the office. I don't keep printed copies of their social, date of birth, driver's license, etc. I have a responsibility to protect them from identity theft.
If you are a Property Manager, you should only share the minimum and keep it generic. For example, I won't share anything with the owner until the Applicant is approved. Why? Because I don't want to give the owner a chance to reject them in a manner that may violate Fair Housing.
Here's an example:
"Hey, John. We have a new tenant for 123 Maple Street. They move in February 15th with a one-year lease. Rent is $1,400 a month. Their security deposit is $1,400 and they paid a $300 non-refundable pet fee."
I'm a professional and take my job seriously. If someone hires me to manage their property, I make it clear that I will manage their property and do not need a baby-sitter. If they want to micro-manage their investments and be involved in every decision or know every detail, I'm not the right guy for them.
If your owners demand to know all the details, it demonstrates a lack of trust which means they are micro-managers or you haven't proven yourself yet.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 364 posts · 109 votes8y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
NO!
The property manager should NEVER release the credit report to an owner. READ THIS ARTICLE
The tenant is authorizing you to run a credit/criminal for the purpose of renting. Once they've been screened, that purpose is met. It does not authorize you to use their information for other reasons and you would open yourself up to a potential lawsuit. I don't even keep copies in the office. I don't keep printed copies of their social, date of birth, driver's license, etc. I have a responsibility to protect them from identity theft.
If you are a Property Manager, you should only share the minimum and keep it generic. For example, I won't share anything with the owner until the Applicant is approved. Why? Because I don't want to give the owner a chance to reject them in a manner that may violate Fair Housing.
Here's an example:
"Hey, John. We have a new tenant for 123 Maple Street. They move in February 15th with a one-year lease. Rent is $1,400 a month. Their security deposit is $1,400 and they paid a $300 non-refundable pet fee."
I'm a professional and take my job seriously. If someone hires me to manage their property, I make it clear that I will manage their property and do not need a baby-sitter. If they want to micro-manage their investments and be involved in every decision or know every detail, I'm not the right guy for them.
If your owners demand to know all the details, it demonstrates a lack of trust which means they are micro-managers or you haven't proven yourself yet.
I wouldn't want to get SSN, but what is wrong about me as a landlord reviewing credit report? It's my property and I want to make sure. I don't know about your level of integrity, but there are way too many PMs that just want thier comition and fast.
- Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 364 posts · 109 votes8y
Originally posted by @Paul Post:
That is what I thought, but they are telling me it is against the law to share credit info. My initial google searches seem to back their claim:
http://www.excalhomes.com/excalibur_home_management_blog/why_can-t_i_get_a_copy_of_my_tenant-s_credit_report
As a matter of fact I do credit check myself through MySmart move and don't even have to request any SSNs.
- Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 4 votes8yI requested the info because I have just hired this PM and this is the first listing I have with them. They offered assurances as to their high level of confidence in the applicant, but have provided any other info on the tenant.
- Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
If you want to get around this simply require ALL credit reports be given to you for the purpose of supervision of your agent to prevent discrimination against protected classes under the Fair Housing Act.
I would not pay any lawyer a dime if they could not prove this appropriate business purpose.
Does the person that wrote the following sentence practice out of form book?
"There is no form or document that is so carefully worded that would allow the release of the information."
Yes... I meant that as a put down. That sentence makes me question their drafting skills.
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes8y
Then why bother hiring a PM if you are going to do all the work they do as well? A PM isn't a showing agent that just opens the door to applicants. It's in my best interest to place the BEST applicant because I am the one who will have to deal with them over the course of their lease. If I place a super-complainer, or someone that frequently pays late, that cuts into my very thin margins and is my problem...and I don't want folks like that. Also, if I place bad tenants frequently, I can count on being fired, so what sense does that make to ruin my reputation and lose other business for half or 1 months rent commission?
- 8yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votesThis is a new PM to the OP so initially trust but verify. If the OP wants to see the info I would request the maximum the PM can send redacting info if needed and have the disclosure in the future worded so you can review and provide final approval if that is what you want. They should be able to tell you a score. I have had PMs put pets in no pet properties and accept a two kid family in a tiny one bedroom. Generally you dont know a bad PM until they mess up and you dont know a good one until you have a little experience with them. I will say I havent had a PM place with bad credit so if they cant release credit, that in my experience is the least likely issue. Might be worth talking rather then a written exchange with the PM. In the end this is based on local law and your contract with the PM. You shouldn't do the PMs job, you are paying them, but as the first time working together I would use it as an opportunity to learn and establish the relationship.
- 8yPatrick LiskaPro MemberInvestor · Verona, NJ · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 832 votes
Paul,
Why not have a meeting with them, ask them to share as much info as they can without disclosing info you do not need. you do not need their SS# , but ask them if they will share what their score was and have them show you how they determine if a potential tenant is a good match for your properties. they should be able to show you the credit report and why they determined the way they did, then you leave the office with nothing in your hands, this way you are not keeping any personal information, your whole reason for being there is to learn there process and to determine if they are screening tenants to your expectations.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes8y
@Lana Lee there are only two reasons for babysitting a PM: you are a micromanager or the PM is incapable of demonstrating their worth. I'll assume it's the latter.
When a Landlord asks me to manage a property, I can show them how I score applicants. My scoring criteria is clearly spelled out in writing and I use an objective score sheet to determine approval or denial. Once I show the Landlord my process, there is no need for them to question why I approved a certain individual because they already know my screening was stringent, fair, and objective. If your PM is unable to demonstrate their process to your satisfaction then I suggest you either help train them to do better or find another PM.
People turn their money over to investors all the time. Do they require the investor to call before making any investment decisions? Of course not! They trust the investor to know the business far better than they ever could so he is left alone to do his job. The same is true with property management. Hire correctly and your rentals should be very hands-off.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes8yPaul Post So the practical side of me says that you should agree on qualifications with you PM and then let them enforce those qualifications. You don’t want to do the work AND unless you’re reviewing everything, for all tenants, you’re creating a different process for certain applicants. So you (at least in theory) open yourself up for fair housing complaints. It’s different that looking at contractor bids because I don’t see too many “fair contractor bid” complaints :) But you’ll see plenty of tenants. And if you’re reviewing the application and making determinations you have to know the law.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes8y
Property managers in the State of California are required to work under a licensed broker. If you are doing that, you should ask your broker, as they are the ones held accountable for your actions, along with you. However; if you are a property manager, you should educate yourself on the laws, disclosures, etc. required. If you are managing your own properties, there's a different standard. Which are you?
- Amherst, OH · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 7 votes8y
Seems to me the replies got off track on whether a PM should or shouldn't share information...some even seem offended by the notion that an owner would want to be 'in the know'. Glad theyre not my PM.
the original question was "How much and what type of information is a property manager allowed to share"
- 8yPatrick LiskaPro MemberInvestor · Verona, NJ · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 832 votes
@Robert Mouser, the answer is, they can share all of it. If you did not have a property management co. screening the tenants then you would be doing it yourself, you would be getting all that information. the PM co. works for you, they represent you, you are still the owner of the business and you can get that information if you want it. You have every right to that information, they live on your property, PM'S come and go, you may even switch PM's like i just did, so that information is not just for the co. that filled the vacancy, the information is there for you should you have to go after the tenant, no matter who manages it.
- 8yMike D'ArrigoPro MemberTurn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Paul Post There is a lot that go in to screening potential tenants and in my opinion, credit scores are probably the least important. Most renters don't have good credit, otherwise they wouldn't be renters. Property management is an art not a science and requires someone with experience and intuition that knows how to evaluate the total picture, not just look at a credit score. There are a lot of reasons people can have low scores and it doesn't mean that they would be bad tenants. One of the most common derogatories are medical expenses. Any derogatory will remain on the credit report for years. Often times the individual has long since recovered from what caused the derogatory in the first place--i.e. job loss, divorce etc. What are you going to do if their score is low because they never pay their credit cards on time however, they have never been late a day on their rent? That's not unusual. People are often lax when it comes to their revolving credit but not with the roof over their head. Have you discussed your PM's full screening process? Do they do a public records search for evictions, judgments, liens etc? Do they do a previous landlord verification? Do they do an employment and income verification? If so, how much income do they require? Do they do a criminal back ground check? These are all more important determinants of tenant quality than a credit score. You are entrusting an important asset to a PM that you don't fully trust. I would have more concern about that than what an applicants credit score is.
- 8yAnthony GaydenPro MemberRental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
@Lana Lee there are only two reasons for babysitting a PM: you are a micromanager or the PM is incapable of demonstrating their worth. I'll assume it's the latter.
When a Landlord asks me to manage a property, I can show them how I score applicants. My scoring criteria is clearly spelled out in writing and I use an objective score sheet to determine approval or denial. Once I show the Landlord my process, there is no need for them to question why I approved a certain individual because they already know my screening was stringent, fair, and objective. If your PM is unable to demonstrate their process to your satisfaction then I suggest you either help train them to do better or find another PM.
People turn their money over to investors all the time. Do they require the investor to call before making any investment decisions? Of course not! They trust the investor to know the business far better than they ever could so he is left alone to do his job. The same is true with property management. Hire correctly and your rentals should be very hands-off.
You may be a great property manager, however there are a ton of them who are not great. You should know that. These people care less about putting good tenants in a property and more about making a quick buck.
I had a PM try to put a tenant in my Tucson property who had an eviction. I vetoed that the instant i found out. Still pisses me off that they even considered the person. I don't care if it was 10 years ago.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes8y
@Anthony Gayden I do know it. I compare property managers to tenants. There are good ones and bad ones. It is the owner's responsibility to screen and find a good one.
If a property manager can't explain their processes to your satisfaction, why did you hire them? If you don't trust them to make decisions, why did you hire them?
Keep what you've got but do some homework and start looking for a GOOD property manager. If you don't, it's nobody's fault but your own when something goes wrong.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Investor · Flower Mound, TX · Member since 2017 · 182 posts · 198 votes8y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
NO!
The property manager should NEVER release the credit report to an owner. READ THIS ARTICLE
The tenant is authorizing you to run a credit/criminal for the purpose of renting. Once they've been screened, that purpose is met. It does not authorize you to use their information for other reasons and you would open yourself up to a potential lawsuit. I don't even keep copies in the office. I don't keep printed copies of their social, date of birth, driver's license, etc. I have a responsibility to protect them from identity theft.
If you are a Property Manager, you should only share the minimum and keep it generic. For example, I won't share anything with the owner until the Applicant is approved. Why? Because I don't want to give the owner a chance to reject them in a manner that may violate Fair Housing.
Here's an example:
"Hey, John. We have a new tenant for 123 Maple Street. They move in February 15th with a one-year lease. Rent is $1,400 a month. Their security deposit is $1,400 and they paid a $300 non-refundable pet fee."
I'm a professional and take my job seriously. If someone hires me to manage their property, I make it clear that I will manage their property and do not need a baby-sitter. If they want to micro-manage their investments and be involved in every decision or know every detail, I'm not the right guy for them.
If your owners demand to know all the details, it demonstrates a lack of trust which means they are micro-managers or you haven't proven yourself yet.
This is completely incorrect, as is the referenced blog post. The legal status of the PM is that of the owners agent. In fact, the PM is ONLY authorized to perform actions that the owner would be authorized to perform. If the owner is not allowed to see the report, ssn, and other details of the applicants, then the PM couldn’t either. PMs have no special status that allows them to do things the owner can’t. And of course the simplest question is what if you don’t hire a PM? I don’t, I act as my own. When it becomes burdensome, I will contract with someone OR EMPLOY someone to do the work. As such they act at my direction and the first time that they don’t they will no longer be contracted or employed. It may be a recommended practice for the PM to handle the credit checking and screening, but if you don’t have right to check up on them how do you ensure they are following your directions? As owner you are legally liable for your agent’s actions, since they act at your (legal) direction.
This company’s claim that they are legally precluded from releasing screening information to you is idiotic.
- Rental Property Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 25 votes8yI have a PM that is the middle man but is also training me not to be a PM as well. I’m not paying anything to this PM but she’s showed me how to screen tenants from credit checks and background checks. I also use a website called cozy.co to screen all of my potential tenants. That way the SSN is blocked out except the last four and I only get the full SSN when they go to apply after meeting the screening requirements.
- Ellenwood, GA · Member since 2018 · 36 posts · 9 votes8y
Hi, I am a complete newbie with no properties yet but I have been shadowing a property manager for the past 3 weeks. They told me that they have a yearly course that they have to complete for the fair housing act. I am not allowed to look at anything that has renters names on them. Might it be possible they are concerned that if you override their decision on an applicant while they are liable under the fair housing act, litigation would fall on them solely if an issue arises?
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